Talk:Planetes

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Planetes has been listed as a good article under the good-article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a review.

Planetes has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

WikiProject Featured articles in other languages has identified Planetes as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the Italian language Wikipedia.

This article was Anime and Manga Collaboration of the Week for the week of 4 March 2006. See how it improved – Before – After

To-do list for Planetes:	edit · history · watch · refresh
Articles that don't exist that this article links to Aikou Ogata Tetsuo Goto Maiko Itou Mike Forest Kotaro Nakagawa Mikio Sakai Articles that need wikification, copyediting, and expansion. Characters of Planetes Planetes manga summary

How would you feel about changing the orders on Tanabe and Hoshino's names? Almost anyone interested in this anime will probably watch the episodes released by the fansub groups, all of which used the original Japanese name order: "If the name is not widely known and used by English speakers, then stick to the Japanese order." Also I'd like to add a section on the themes of the anime (can't talk about the manga, but I plan to pick that up soon), but I'm not sure that fits with in the scope of Wikipedia. Most of it is fairly obvious (criticism of Japanese 'salaryman' society, ignoring cultural tradition/moral considerations, Buddhist philosophy vs. Existentialism, etc.), but I wouldn't want to violate WP's rule about publishing original analysis. At the same time, writing in English about the themes of some tiny Japanese Anime isn't exactly high-profile work that academics (or anyone) is really clamoring for. How exactly does one go about writing about something with almost no English language primary sources? Also I think this could use a section on the differences between the manga and the anime. Just off the top of my head: a bunch of 'minor' characters were dropped for the anime, in the manga it's a Mars mission and in the anime it's a Jupiter mission. --AsianAstronaut 21:20, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

I'm opposed to the name reordering for two reasons. One, because it would be confusing to have Fee and Yuri in western order and Hachi and Ai in eastern order. However, the way you added the kanji and names is fine by me. Secondly, the Tokyopop manga puts the names in the western order and I imagine when the anime is released stateside, so will that.

As far as everything else goes, the no original research is mostly designed to keep people's pet theories about all manner of weirdness out of Wikipedia. In this fashion, if one user truly believes that all Freemason leaders are aliens from the planet Omicron-Persius 8 or whatever, his pet theory isn't treated as encyclopedic. Interpreting a television show, on the other hand, I don't feel applies. First off, I agree with your interpretation (especially about the criticism of Japanese salarymen), so the creators must have had that in mind. I think it's okay to add.

If you have any other ideas, go ahead and add them (or talk about them here - I've almost finished the series, I need to download the last two episodes). RADICALBENDER★ 22:03, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

I don't care about the order and thinks its kind of humorous its being discussed. :) But I think writing about the themes of Planetes is important. If you wander into your own personal views, we'll be sure to tell you. Currently the genre of Planetes isn't even addressed really, outside of it having SciFi elements.

Actually, in the Manga it is a Jupiter mission. There is a side story involving Goro, the father of the main character, who was one of the initial crewmen on the pioneering Mars mission. The main story still revolves around Hachimaki and him becoming a member of the Jupiter mision (well, revolves around is a little strong, the manga is more of an ensemble character drama than anything else). -DannoHung

Contents 1 Translated as Wanderers? 2 Manga scans? 3 Collaboration of the week = failure? 4 Robbie? 5 GA 6 Consider splitting in two 7 Makoto Yukimura interview 8 Splitting of characters section

[edit] Translated as Wanderers?

Why am I seeing this being translated as "Wanderers"? That's like translating "Jupiter is a planet" into "Jupiter is a wanderer." Modern usage of the word planet, you see, derives from the fact that the planets seem to wander against the "fixed" background of stars, hence they are wanderers. A think a more correct "translation" of Planetes would be ... uhhh ... Planets. Any idea on this? --Cyde Weys 06:07, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, Planet says: "The name comes from the Greek term πλανήτης, planētēs, meaning "wanderer"", so the Wanderers translation is the most literal. Plus it makes more sense; 'Planets' is not a particularly fitting title for the series, but 'Planetes/Wanderers' has a double meaning, which I think was probably intentional. Heliocentric 07:49, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Note then, that this series has a typo in its name. The page for Planet says it's spelled 'ΠΛΑΝΉΤΗΣ', but the anime has it spelled 'ΠΛΑΝΉΤΕΣ' which would sound like 'planetis'. Whoops. :-) Of course, the number one reason for translating this as "Wanderers" is that the show itself uses the text "Wanderers" in the eyecatch when it shows the same word in several other languages. You can't argue with the original makers...

(First time I edit anything, so please bare with possible mistakes =). I am just changing Greek to Ancient Greek, as there is a difference. No one would use "ΠΛΑΝΗΤΗΣ" (or "ΠΛΑΝΗΤΕΣ" which is simply the plural of "ΠΛΑΝΗΤΗΣ" and is pronounced "Planites" by the way :P) for "Wanderer" today (the modern Greek word for that would be "ΠΕΡΙΠΛΑΝΗΤΗΣ"). Only in Ancient Greek does it have that meaning.

the korean 헤매는 사람 translates perfectly as 'wanderers'. -Lordraydens 04:28, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manga scans?

Can anyone get scans of single panels of the manga, one (hopefully memorable and iconic) panel per chapter? My scanner is on the fritz, so I don't think I can use my copies. Thanks! --TcDohl 03:40, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Are we even allowed to do that as far as copyrights are concerned? A case can be made for screencaps from the anime being fair use but I think manga scans have crossed into iffy territory. -Loren 04:20, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

There's no difference between screen caps and scans. There's nothing fundamentally different about copyright laws regarding video and pictures. As long as we meet fair use we're okay. --Cyde Weys 04:26, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

There are a few images on the TokyoPop website. Palm_Dogg 05:36, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

We can use them as fair use, just as long as they're single panel. And the images in the Tokyopop website are only for volume 1, and the images that they do have aren't the memorable and/or iconic images from the manga. --TcDohl 05:42, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to recommend moving the Planetes#Manga Summary section to its own article. The anime already has one and the summaries needlessly extend the article. BTW, DVD 6 just came out and Episode 24 is A-W-E-S-O-M-E! Palm_Dogg 05:34, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, you don't need to tell us how good Planetes is. And I definitely agree, but we need those single panel scans to make it complete. And I'll get the DVDs in a few days, so I'll do the screenshots. --TcDohl 06:03, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Collaboration of the week = failure?

This really disappoints me. Having Planetes as the frontrunner as the Anime Collaboration of the Week for three weeks only to be defeated in the last minute, then when it actually becomes the Collaboration of the Week, nothing! The only significant changes that I've seen are the changes I've made to the manga summary. It's still very far from featured article quality, since it's still too heavy on the characters list and the manga summary. All the other changes were deciding where to put the spoiler tags. There's more changes in the last two days right before being chosen as the Collaboration of the Week than on the actual week. Well, this really increases my confidence in the project.

--TcDohl 06:23, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

If you can add some references and footnotes, I'll nominate it as a good article. Palm_Dogg 06:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

References and footnotes? There's barely any research in this article, if any. It's all just lifted straight out of the manga and anime. And all my other information is from Anime News Network. --TcDohl 07:57, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

References can be from anywhere. If you ever want this to be FA, you're going to have to show people where you got your info. If you want some examples of how to do this, check out Starship Troopers, which is a page I'm working on. Palm_Dogg 16:03, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's all fine and dandy, but some of the places you marked are straight out of the ending credits. Man, it sucks being the only one here that's read the manga. --TcDohl 21:16, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not trying to be difficult; I'm just saying if you want FA status you're going to need references, even if they're from Bandai or the Anime News Network. The lists are also going to have to be merged into prose, but that can be done later. Palm_Dogg 21:20, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Robbie?

Lavie's name is given as Arvind "Robbie" Lavie, but I can't ever remember seeing him called that in the official translation (and he's not in the manga). Is there a cite for this? piman 07:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

It's in the anime. That's what the characters called him in the Japanese (through no fault of their own) and the English dub (intentionally). --TcDohl 12:19, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA

Looks good to be. Keep improving it and this could have a shot at being featured. savidan^{(talk) (e@)} 10:04, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Yay, go team. We should now put this on the anime and manga wikiproject page as an example article. - Phorque (talk • contribs) 12:41, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Hooray! Well, I think we still need to edit this some more along the guidelines set by the Peer Review. Now I'd like to shoot for Featured Article, like its Italian cousin. --TcDohl 16:14, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Good work all around. And now, onward to FA status! -Loren 18:18, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Consider splitting in two

You could consider splitting the article in two. One for the Anime amd one for the Manga. I tried reading the manga, several times, but found that it was too deep into Japanese philosophy and current Japanese concerns with manliness and social skills to keep me awake. Then I discovered the anime and bought the first DVD, and then all the DVDs available (I am eagerly waiting for volume 6, the last, to be available in Canada) and found a series which, to my eyes, had very little to do with the manga. The tone is completely different. The level of realism is something else. The characters actually seem real in the anime while they looked symbolic in the manga. Because of all this I find I have a great difficulty in adding things to the Planetes article, with long term improvement in mind. It seems to cover both the Anime and the manga but sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. --AlainV 18:03, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it should be split in two. I think your concerns are quite valid, but I think it's nothing you can't already add to the current article. But if you really want to add to the article, keep it one step at a time, and keep a goal in mind. --TcDohl 18:33, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

That's the problem. It's impossible to have any goal given the radical differences between the anime and manga. That's why I don't see how I can possibly add or improve anything past the little I just put in, with the exception of correcting new typos (if any pop up) or a fact here and there when other sections are added, eventually, by other editors. --AlainV 18:53, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, maybe what we can do is for you to just add whatever you want to the manga section (which I think is seriously lacking in the first place). I'll serve as the editor of whatever comes in (and I'm getting pretty tired adding new stuff to this article). So just try, and let's see what happens. So now, I guess your task is to add whatever you can add to the manga section, and let me take care of the rest. --TcDohl 19:48, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

You read what I wrote up there too fast. It's the other way around. I'm not interested at all in the manga, because, from my point of view, it's mired in Japanese philosophical mumbo-jumbo and it just disregards the technological questions which form the basis of science fiction. This is not surprising given the attitude Makoto Yukimura has towards technology. Just read the article Loren has linked to below. You'll see that Yukimura deliberately avoided getting information on how things actually work in space, because he did not want facts, reality to influence him, his "artistic vision". This is going away from science fiction and into fantasy. When they did the anime they took exactly the opposite approach and put a very solid scientific and technological basis to everything. Just look at the care they put into cutting off the sound when we have exterior shots in space, getting zero gravity scenes perfectly (within the boundaries of the limited animation of the anime TV series genre of course) and linking elements of plot to the nature of exploration and exploitation. The anime is classic science fiction in the Clarke-Asimov-Heinlein tradition while the manga is a fairy tale set in space. --AlainV 23:29, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Now that we're splitting the article again, we have room to put stuff in the pretty much barren Anime section. So, I guess that's your opportunity. --TcDohl 18:36, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I sincerely disagree with the suggestion that the Anime and the Manga are significantly different in their themes and execution. The final message that the anime leaves the viewer with (seriously, they spend like... 20 minutes on this in the last episode) is one of the importance of the connection between humans no matter what the situation. It's definitley true that the Anime explores the theme of exploitation of the underclass more, but I feel that suggesting that the manga is a fairy tale set in space while the anime is more classical is preposterous. I'll grant you that my memory is a little rusty as I haven't read the manga since last summer, but I'm reasonably sure of the basic similarity. --DannoHung 07:26, 19 Aprial 2006 (UTC)

I just went to a store to check on all the volumes and what I saw again in that manga was tons of late 20th century tech for a story that's supposed to take place a hundred years later. The anime takes technology into account instead of using it as a general effect or backdrop. In the two cases it,s Art but different types of Art. Just read the interview with Yukimura Loren linked to below. But regardless of the nature of the sotires we,re talking here of two different media: Print on paper versus a TV show. --AlainV 03:07, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Without my copies of the manga on hand, I'll have to assent to your account in the interim. If the point is simply to discuss them as different works in different mediums, I'll raise no argument with idea of separating the article. I'm sorry I misunderstood your point. --DannoHung 05:47, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Makoto Yukimura interview

One of the issues brought up in the peer review was the lack of information on the development process. I've found an old interview we can try to incorporate into the article: NASDA (now JAXA) interview with Makoto Yukimura (2002). -Loren 18:58, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Splitting of characters section

Seeing as this article is a borderline size-warning at 30kB, I believe we need to create Characters of Planetes to take some of the load off of this article.

I figure we keep the first four characters in the main article and then port everyone else to the characters article. The article feels unbalanced with such an exhaustive characters section and other, practically empty ones ("Anime" for example). Any other suggestions? - Phorque (talk • contribs) 17:52, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. Perhaps the main characters should have their own articles, leaving just a basic summary on the main Planetes page. -Loren 17:58, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I was just thinking about that. Well, I split the other articles, so someone else do the characters article? Also, I think we have enough satellite articles to warrant a category. --TcDohl 18:35, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Created Category:Planetes -Loren 19:40, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

It would have made more sense (and it's not too late to change this) to split between the manga and the anime. With the split like this it makes things confusing for persons who do not already know both and it creates impossible situations for characters and plot. Take a look at high quality articles like the one on Starship Troopers the novel, and all the other media titles that came from it like Starship Troopers (film) or the animated 3D TV series Roughnecks: Starship Troopers Chronicles. Like the Planetes manga and anime they share character elements and many plot elements in common but they are, like the planetes anime and manga again, different media creations. When you look at things closely you notice that while the characters might have the same names in book or film they have deep differences because of the radical differences between the media. So making a common characters article for anime and manga does not make any sense. --AlainV 03:03, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Having gone over some of the previous discussion on this topic I am inclined to agree, at least for the main articles. The articles on the characters themselves can remain the same while noting any personality changes between the manga and the anime. -Loren 04:32, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I thoroughly disagree, and I'll say it as plainly as I can. I believe that two separate articles would have a significantly lower chance of obtaining Featured Article status. Splitting the article would make the scope of the article narrower, and liable to fancruft. --TcDohl 21:06, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Do you have any examples of this? I gave the example of how it's supposed to work, with the printed work Starship Troopers and the other media that were derived from it. Note that the Starship troopers article was tagged as a good article and as a featured article. This is not done to fancruft. Right now by the way the planetes article as just been split again, and some could say that it has now become several pieces of fancruft because the split elements can only be understood by devoted fans and updated by devoted fans. The idea of an encyclopedia artcile is that information is given at several levels and that readers who do not know anything will be immediately informed, progressively. --AlainV 02:59, 19 April 2006 (UTC)