Thảo luận Thành viên:CarlKenner

Bách khoa toàn thư mở Wikipedia

Mục lục

1 Hoan nghênh
2 Some guidelines on dates
3 Country names
4 en.wiki

[sửa] Hoan nghênh

Xin chào CarlKenner, và hoan nghênh bạn đã tham gia vào dự án này! Dưới đây là một số liên kết có thể có ích cho bạn:

Bạn có thể tham khảo, và xem qua một số bài đã có để biết cách tạo một mục từ hợp lệ. Dù là viết bài mới hay đóng góp vào những bài đã có, rất mong bạn lưu ý về quyền tác giả. Khi thảo luận, bạn nhớ ký tên bằng cách dùng 4 dấu ngã (~~~~). Trong quá trình sử dụng, nếu bạn cần thêm trợ giúp, mời vào bàn giúp đỡ.

Đặc biệt: Để thử sửa đổi, định dạng... mời bạn vào Wikipedia:Chỗ thử, xin đừng thử vào bài có sẵn.

Mong bạn đóng góp nhiều vào dự án. Xin cám ơn.

Welcome to the Vietnamese Wikipedia. If you do not speak Vietnamese, please feel free to read guestbook for non-Vietnamese speakers. Again, thank you and welcome! Nguyễn Hữu Dụng 07:10, ngày 23 tháng 11 năm 2005 (UTC)

[sửa] Some guidelines on dates

Sorry we got off on the wrong foot. Here we've already created the pages for each day of the year from 1 tháng 1 to 31 tháng 12. Please use that format when linking pages. Thanks. Nguyễn Hữu Dụng 00:34, ngày 25 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

Oops. Sorry. I think I used tháng giêng and tháng chạp some places. I'll see if I can find them and fix them. I don't think I used spelt out words or capitals, but I'll have to check. Does the date parser understand if you put "năm" before the year (but not inside brackets)? I know the system is supposed to recognise dates and format them according to user preferences, but I don't know how, or if, it works. —bàn luận không kí tên vừa rồi là của CarlKenner (thảo luận • đóng góp) 17:42, ngày 24 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the software will only understand if you put "năm" or a comma outside of the link. I'm not convinced that the date preferences here work that well, since the ISO date format isn't understood for some reason. There are a lot of quirks at the Vietnamese Wikipedia that I'll try to correct for after you create articles here; writing articles here isn't as easy as simply copy-pasting, though your template substitution trick does go a long way towards that.

I suppose you're pushing for 7,000 articles here, no? I've noticed that you've been pushing some of our smaller languages to milestones lately. :^)

– Nguyễn Xuân Minh (thảo luận, đóng góp) 00:55, ngày 25 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

Also, when creating new articles, please try to at least include enough of a definition to identify the subject. I noticed that some of the country articles that you created simply say "XXX is a country." I'm not sure I'd even call that a {{substub}}, even if it has an excessively long infobox to the side. I realize that you're not fluent in Vietnamese (well, neither am I), but please at least try to place the country on a continent. So at least say "XXX là một quốc gia ở miền đông châu Âu" or something like that. Thanks for your efforts. – Nguyễn Xuân Minh (thảo luận, đóng góp) 01:02, ngày 25 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm pushing for 10,000! Actually I think I started long before 6,000. This encyclopedia will reach 10,000 in no time, not because of me though :-). I do actually speak a fair bit of Vietnamese. I've been studying for 10 years. But it's hard! I'm not just cutting and pasting, I do fix all the English things up afterward. So don't edit my articles until I post an edit called "fixed up" a few minutes after my edit called "Infobox Country trick", otherwise I get an edit conflict and have to redo things. (I start fixing the template immediately after I save it, but I have to save it for "subst:" to do its magic!)

I do actually specify which region of which continent in my second edit "fixed up", it just takes a few minutes. And I add another infobox at the bottom listing all the countries for that continent. But I have to do that manually, since the template isn't just for one region of Africa. Personally I think a detailed translated list of statistics and a sentence saying it is a continent in Africa and the other necessary info qualifies as a stub, but feel free to change it to a substub if you disagree. But it is definately AT LEAST a sub-stub. The countries I did manually before I created the template I also wrote which countries it borders, which is basically the first paragraph of English articles before the contents, but I figured I'd add that in later after I create stubs for all these countries.

Why not 100,000? :^P Alright, that's fair; I'm sorry for causing edit conflicts with you, but I did want to point out some of the things that still needed to be fixed, without having to enumerate all the little nitpicky details on your talk page here. To me, substubs (also called dictdefs at the English Wikipedia) are one sentence long. Stubs are up to several paragraphs long. The problem I had with some of the articles was that you never expanded the intro sentence beyond what {{Infobox Country}} already provided, so you the reader would just have been left with the information that the page talks about a country. By the way, I initially suspected you of trying to simply inflate the article count because of similarly short articles you created at the Turkmen and Twi Wikipedias, and because you afterwards gave yourself credit for it at Wikimedia News. :^) – Nguyễn Xuân Minh (thảo luận, đóng góp) 01:20, ngày 25 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

Hey, my Turkmen and Twi articles were much better quality than the average articles on those Encyclopedias! :-) For Turkmen I think I even wrote whole paragraphs (which is hard when you don't speak the language!). They may not be up to the standards of Vietnamese wikipedia, but they were comparatively good articles. I think Turkmen was up around 100 before but had poor quality articles deleted, so I made sure mine looked proper. And I improved some of other people's truly shocking articles on those encyclopedias (even though it doesn't help the article count). And I didn't even have a template. Hopefully native speakers will now feel inclined to work on them now they are out of the toy and super-toy categories.

Actually I don't think there are any articles with only the template text, unless it is within 10 minutes of me saving then starting my second edit. And keep in mind I wrote the Infobox Country template, it originally provided nothing.

CarlKenner 01:55, ngày 25 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

Has someone been editing the Infobox Country template? I would prefer if it was LOCKED, because I use it a LOT and it is deliberately designed the way it is after much trial and error. I don't mind if people make improvements, but they need to keep in mind that it never actually appears in a single finished article, and it is designed to be quickly fixed up after it is "subst"ed. It also has a secondary function for the rare event that some idiot cuts and pastes and English article and nobody notices, so it should sort of look like a finished box, but mostly it is for editing, so if it has things like the president and primeminister listed twice, and the word "indepence" listed twice, that is so I can quickly compare if the Vietnamese text matches the english text and then delete the english text or edit the vietnamese text to match the english text before deleting the english text if it doesn't match. When I do subst and hit save, it is a pain if it doesn't convert the way I expected.

I do recommend other people use that template though if they want to translate country articles, even if they speak fluently and can translate super fast. It is quick and easy once you get the hang of it, and it will save you a lot of work. And the best part is, once you do subst and edit it, nobody can tell the difference. CarlKenner 01:55, ngày 25 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

Well, we don't protect templates here just because people use them a lot – {{qif}} isn't even protected, and I'm guessing it's the single most-used template on any Wikipedia that has it. If you'd like a version that doesn't changed behind your back, so to speak, you could create a duplicate version of your own at Thành viên:CarlKenner/Infobox Country or something like that. Although there's technically nothing that'll stop others from editing a page in your userspace, we generally discourage doing so around here. – Nguyễn Xuân Minh (thảo luận, đóng góp) 07:24, ngày 26 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

[sửa] Country names

Each syllable (or word) of a country name should be capitalized, except when it's excessively long (ie. Bồ Đào Nha, Tây Ban Nha, tiếng Bồ Đào Nha, but Cộng hòa Nhân dân Trung Hoa). Nguyễn Hữu Dụng 01:16, ngày 25 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

Also, names like "Cộng hòa Nhân dân Trung Hoa" aren't completely capitalized because "Cộng hòa" is taken as a single, non-proper word. – Nguyễn Xuân Minh (thảo luận, đóng góp) 01:20, ngày 25 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

What about preceding words? I know it doesn't matter for wikipedia links to work, but is it Tiếng Việt Nam, or tiếng Việt Nam? And is it nước Việt Nam, or Nước Việt Nam. châu Phi, or Châu Phi ? I think we probably should create some redirects to countries without capitalisation, in case users try to search for it, but I'll see if I can fix my articles.

Usually common nouns are left uncapitalized, hence châu Phi, tiếng Việt. BTW, "tiếng Việt Nam" is rarely used by native speakers. Nguyễn Hữu Dụng 02:06, ngày 25 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

Oops, yeah, I remember that now. Bad example ;-). The question is... is tiếng Việt one word or two. I would say it is one word, and should be capitalised. But that's just me. CarlKenner 02:10, ngày 25 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

"Tiếng Việt" is used as a compound word, but in reality it's like saying "Vietnamese language". Note that "language" is left uncapitalized in English. So "tiếng" is left usually uncapitalized. Note that, because of title case, it may still be capitalized (at the beginning of an entry in an infobox, for example). – Nguyễn Xuân Minh (thảo luận, đóng góp) 07:32, ngày 26 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

I hear "tiếng Việt Nam" by native speakers all the time, except on Wikipedia. But that might just be the continental divide, since I haven't been in California long. :^) – Nguyễn Xuân Minh (thảo luận, đóng góp) 07:24, ngày 26 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

See Thảo luận Thành viên:Mxn#Tiếng Việt Nam Nguyễn Hữu Dụng 07:51, ngày 26 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

I didn't deliberately use Tiếng Việt Nam, I always use Tiếng Việt. I just wasn't paying attention, and had just been talking about Việt Nam vs. Việt nam. However I just looked "Vietnamese" up in my English-Vietnamese dictionary, and it gives "tiếng Việt Nam". On the other hand, I never know whether to say "người Việt" or "người Việt Nam". Although perhaps the newly re-elected leader of the VCP is người Việt Nam, but not người Việt? Would you call him người Việt? CarlKenner 10:13, ngày 26 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

That's tricky. I would call him "người Việt Nam", and loosely "người Việt", but never người Kinh. 134.157.5.208 10:32, ngày 26 tháng 4 năm 2006 (UTC)

[sửa] en.wiki

Sorry, I do not have admin privileges at the English Wikipedia. Nguyễn Hữu Dụng 14:07, ngày 5 tháng 5 năm 2006 (UTC)

Neither do I. I found that your problem was solved, wasn't it? Vietbio 15:16, ngày 5 tháng 5 năm 2006 (UTC)

No quite the opposite. What that fuckwit SlimVirgin is actually saying is that he vandalised my talk page to remove my official request for unblocking, and then blocked me from editing my talk page, and kept the block on me. So it has definately not been solved. What you can try if you are not an admin, is reverting SlimVirgin's vandalism of my English talk page to restore the request for unblocking. However one person tried that already and got banned too.

CarlKenner 15:42, ngày 5 tháng 5 năm 2006 (UTC)

The wiki system is so-called "language localizing system" means: If you are admin in Vietnamese, you may have no right in English, except you also are an Admin in that language. I wish I can help with any means and any forces. However, like you (or enven weaker), I am a secondary citizen (Phó thường dân) of en.wiwki!

Have a nice day LĐ

Sorry, Carl, you'll have to take that up with the English Wikipedia's mailing list. But please keep calm and explain your situation without calling anyone a "fuckwit". The other admins there don't take kindly to that. I'll support you if I can, but I'm not that prominent a member of the English Wikipedia, so I don't know what I can do for you. – Nguyễn Xuân Minh (thảo luận, đóng góp) 19:31, ngày 5 tháng 5 năm 2006 (UTC)

By the way, SlimVirgin is a she, according to her userpage. :^) – Nguyễn Xuân Minh (thảo luận, đóng góp) 06:56, ngày 8 tháng 5 năm 2006 (UTC)

Lấy từ “http://vi.wikipedia.org../../../c/a/r/Th%E1%BA%A3o_lu%E1%BA%ADn_Th%C3%A0nh_vi%C3%AAn%7ECarlKenner_8e6b.html”