Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog (character)

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To-do list for Sonic the Hedgehog (character):

edit · history · watch · refresh

These tasks can be addressed in any order: Prose Edit sections from an out-of-universe perspective where possible. Copyedit sentences with redundant words. (See: How to satisfy Criterion 1a) Replace references to concept-mobius and ghz with suitable references using {{cite video game}} where possible. Remove fancrufty comments about speculation and fan tastes. (e.g. is Shadow or Metal Sonic more popular, etc.) Remove original research. (Metal Sonic's current location, reasons behind talking, etc.) Reformat external links in the text as footnote references. Clean up the article to use the same person, in particular, do not intermix you/we. Use the dash guidlines consistently. Use consistent punctuation. Deal with that "cake" vandal!!! Images Make sure all images have concrete fair use rationale. Downsize fair-use images per {{fair use reduce}} to generally no more than 320 pixels in any direction. NB: Try to make sure that downsized transparent PNGs do not have a black background in IE.

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Archives
/Archive 1 /Archive 2 (archived June 2006) /Archive 3 (archived 2006-10-01)

Contents 1 Talk page has been archived 2 Sonic Picture 3 Website gone AWOL; victim of domain parking. References removed. 4 Article length 5 "Cake" vandalisation 6 Destiny...WTF? 7 Birthplace 8 Christmas Special? 9 Sonic isn't 15? 10 Sonic does not go faster than sound 11 Possible source of new reliable citations 12 Edit war 13 Super Sonic Merge rename 14 Super Smash Bros. Brawl 15 Sonic named after an airplane pilot?

[edit] Talk page has been archived

For previous discussions, see /Archive 3. Cheers. --DavidHOzAu 12:08, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sonic Picture

I think we should switch the Sonic picture at the top of the article with the one found at the Japanese Sonic 2006 gamesite from Sonic Channel, the same one the new Tails picture is from. -Anonymous 3:55 PM

Agreed..I'll make the switch!GrandMasterGalvatron 19:55, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

The image is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sonicnextgen2.jpg

Please make the necessary changesGrandMasterGalvatron 20:00, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Image:Sonicrun_2006.png I found that this picture is more representitive of Sonic's character (love of running, plus he is most notable for it) and it is from the latest game too and seen on the box art. Not to mention, it's lower resolution but still looks high, which apparently qualifies it for fair use. UnDeRsCoRe 00:46, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

(Please let's not revert war over this like happened last time!) I think I'll go for Sonicrun_2006.png since fair use guidelines stipulates that fair use pictures must serve some sort of purpose and not be purely for decorative uses. --DavidHOzAu 05:28, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Then what do we do with the other picture?GrandMasterGalvatron 20:09, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Nothing. It will most likely be tagged for deleation soon if it is not linked to an article. But, do not add it to this article. UnDeRsCoRe 23:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Website gone AWOL; victim of domain parking. References removed.

diff. --DavidHOzAu 06:02, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

This site was one of the better ones, and contained ALOT of info, in addition it was also used as a reference it most of the character and games article. I'd hate to sound stupid... but, what actually is domain parking? UnDeRsCoRe 23:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Some company waits for a domain name to lapse and then they grab it before the original owner can. The original owner can't get it back without paying a higher-than-usual price. For more infomation on this practice, see cybersquatting. Ouch. --DavidHOzAu 12:46, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

OOO. That's bad. So, what company took Concept Mobius' domain? UnDeRsCoRe 21:04, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article length

Is there anyone concerned about the length of this article...at all?GrandMasterGalvatron 14:13, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

No, it's fine to me. I believe you're referencing to the Knuckles article, which is being crtisised, for being soooo long. (I was being saracastic). Please don't bring that up in this article, it'll cause alot of mayhem. Believe me. UnDeRsCoRe 23:34, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, if anything, it's a bit short. Very little mention of the homing attack, and no images of any attack at all. (We used to have a list of attacks, but it couldn't be converted to prose and was dropped so that that this could become a good article.) One of these days I'll get around to making a diagram of it using Inkscape. (For example, a certain picture of personal computer was made using Inkscape. Powerful stuff; worth the download.)--DavidHOzAu 12:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Cake" vandalisation

I was skimming through the page when I found the Character section has been modified to have the word cake here and there. o.o" Ericius 16:18, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah! The Destiny section under Character is overrun with the word "cake". Who would do such a thing? ChibiKareshi 08:38, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I felt I had to revert the entire article since there were still some cake references and there don't appear to have been any substantive changes since the vandalism. Sorry if I missed some constructive changes other than repairing the vandalism... please re-add your edits if I reverted them by mistake! Robotsintrouble 08:46, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

What... the... heck?!? A troll that's obsessed over, of all things, cakes!?!?!!? I'm a bit scared... --Luigifan 01:56, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

THE CAKE IS A LIE —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.148.209.103 (talk • contribs) .

• Sigh* These vandals are really slow to learn... --Luigifan 03:21, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

To quote Charmy Bee, "A-HAH!!!" I think I've figured out who the cake vandal is! I just noticed Nintendo Maximus's name in the edit summary of one of those "cake" vandilizations. However, Maximus has already been blocked on another charge (specifically, removing speedy delete tags.) He's already petitioning to become unblocked, so if we cut him off now, we probably won't have to deal with any more of this cake crap! So, who's with me? --Luigifan 01:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Wow, congratulations Sherlock you discovered who the cake vandal is. (lol, just joking, you did a good job). If he really is the vandal, report him. But I guess he'll only get off on a warning... UnDeRsCoRe 01:55, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Dude, I am NOT the cake vandal. I never put a single "cake" mention on this or any other article once! I would never vandalize an article. Besides, my IP address is 68.114.127.87, while the real vandal's is 82.198.250.73. --Nintendo Maximus 02:54, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmm... Okay, that's all the proof I need. The cake vandal's IP doesn't match Nintendo Maximus's IP, so it's not him... and, like most vandals, he isn't logged in, in order to remain "anonymous". Yeah right, blocking an IP address would keep someone off a lot more accurately than blocking an account. --Luigifan 21:53, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Why is the vandal so obsessed with cake? All it does is make me hungry. --64.72.59.179 14:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Found the vandal! It's 82.198.250.73 from Stamford, Connecticut. I suppose the best we can hope for is to pray that Shane McMahon didn't vandalize this article... --D.F. "Jun Kazama Master" Williams 14:28, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Whoops...I found the real vandal. It's 90.192.61.27. I'm going to report him to WP:AIV and have him blocked from editing. --D.F. "Jun Kazama Master" Williams 14:51, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Destiny...WTF?

Ok...it says that Knuckles said that Only Sonic could stop FH and Sonic is the controller...What the Hell? That's a total misconception if there ever was one! The "Controller" is the ME and only the ME. Saying that Sonic is the controller would also mean that Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Blaze and any other transformed character would also be said controller. I don't know whether to rewrite this section or delete it entirely! It's pure fancruft at best GrandMasterGalvatron 16:19, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

• It's been added to since I originally wrote that section, but I always took it that the verse was rather open. Don't forget, we learn about it from Tikal and at the end of the game she realises even she doesn't fully understand it after seeing Super Sonic. What does Super Sonic do? He unifies the power of the Chaos Emeralds for his own use. This, along with the Hidden Palace mural, seems to imply certain Echidnas long ago foresaw Super Sonic. There are other super characters but within the story of the games Sonic is the key one. Specifically for Shadow- let's not forget, as the article points out, that there seems to be evidence that Gerald intended him to be an artifical answer to the prophecised hedgehog.--HellCat86 17:19, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Even so, the part about SA2 is incorrect. Knuckles was specifically talking to the ME when he said only it had the power to stop the emeralds.

Honestly...the whole bit about Super Sonic being a controller seems to be speculation. Also, I don't recall Tikal saying anything about Super Sonic. Could you possibly quote her last lines in the game? GrandMasterGalvatron 17:31, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

The SA2 part is the exact part I was referring to as having been changed, so perhaps that and some other rewrites are in order. For Tikal, I can't offer an exact quote but I'm referring to her insistance that Chaos be locked back in the Master Emerald, only to be made aware of the positive power of the Emeralds via Super Sonic.--HellCat86 17:44, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm a little curious as to why the section now guess Knuckles misread it. I'm near certain one of the Japanese manuals mentions Knuckles mistaking it's meaning.--HellCat86 10:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Birthplace

The source cited for Sonic's birthplace being Christmas Island is highly questionable and This interview seems to confirm it as being made up. I've removed it, and I suggest that it should stay removed unless a more concrete source can be provided.--SprintGod 01:25, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

A few things.

1. The source is valid - it's a translation of an official article released by Sega themselves. Very much verifiable, provided you can read Japanese.
2. Of course the story is made up. How many games have stories that AREN'T made up? Unless I'm living in a world with blue hedgehogs, overweight-yet-agile Italian plumbers, travelling warriors who fight by shooting fireballs and performing random helicopter attacks in the air, demon invasions every other Tuesday, and it also happens to be the future, well after some post-apocalyptic event. Seriously, though, the person saying the story is made up is rather vague - they could be stating that it's fiction (this wouldn't be the first time Sonic Team have stated the obvious in a Japanese strategy guide), or that this story was abandoned. Neither can be proven given the wording right now.

I don't think this argument holds. I'm putting the thing back in (commented out until we reach consensus) for now. --Shadow Hog 01:33, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

My point is that the only source for this piece of information is alongside a story which is quite basically a load of nonsense probably written as a joke. Unless of course you believe that the games were really based on non-existent stories by a non-existent American woman and inspired by a non-existent pilot. It doesn't even get any of the characters' ages right.--SprintGod 05:10, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

LOL! Shadow Hog, that is hilarious. Your point is very well made, and I'm not being sarcastic. Let's face it, folks, video games are not meant to emulate real life! --Luigifan 02:00, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Christmas Special?

Does anyone have any information about the Christmas special animation featuring Sonic? I can't find any mention of it on Wiki and was wondering if someone could point me in the direction of it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gromreaper (talk • contribs) .

Christmas Special? I haven't even heard anything about that. Where did you hear about it in the first place? UnDeRsCoRe 14:48, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I watched it when I was about 10 or 12, plus I recently saw it on DVD with some other lame Christmas episodes of some other shows, so I know it exists. Gromreaper 15:25, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Christmas_Blast --HellCat86 16:24, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, HellCat! Gromreaper 03:20, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sonic isn't 15?

User talk:71.213.211.85 is bent on the fact that Sonic was 15 in SA and then 16 in SA2 and ages every year. So, he thinks Sonic is 21 years old and that I'm wrong. I'm having trouble convincing him the truth and stop him from list Sonic as 21, but so far I've had no luck. Can someone please help me? UnDeRsCoRe 15:00, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Random aside- since technically we've been told Sonic has been the same age in every game (15), that's one hell of a busy year...--HellCat86 15:10, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

i went on sega website sais sonic's 15 the must be right —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Abyab (talk • contribs) .

Although in Sonic Jam in the character museum, it says he is 16. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.170.104.56 (talk • contribs) .

That's because in old school Sonic games he was 16, but now he's 15. UnDeRsCoRe 00:13, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Well that doesn't really make much sense then does it? Sonic was 16 but as time went on he became 15? I wish SEGA could make it a bit clearer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.170.104.56 (talk • contribs) .

It can simpily be explained as a Retcon. The only ages that are canon are the ones for the latest game. -ROSSYMILES (ロシマイルス) TALK 10:22, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sonic does not go faster than sound

In the games, Sonic does not actually go faster than sound. He does travel faster than sound in the Archie comics and in Sonic X (and possibly in the SatAM series but i havent seen it.) The writers of these series probably thought the name "Sonic" implied higher then mach 1 speeds and it is one of the most common misconceptions about Sonic, the next most common is that he lives on Mobius etc. It says in the article that he does travel faster than sound, however that comment was probably written by someone who watches Sonic X because the following sentence is "He can run backwards just as well as forwards" (what sonic does to tease the racecar drivers in the first episode.) I didn't delete the line about Sonic's mach 1 speed because most fans will just put it back again. Also it might deserve a mention for Sonic X. If nobody objects i will either delete or modify that line. ROSSYMILES (ロシマイルス) TALK 06:49, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Sonic runs backwards when he's reading the note from Eggman at the start of Sonic Heroes.--HellCat86 10:11, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with HellCat86. As for Mobius, the present understanding is that Earth and Mobius are two different names that refer to the same thing—saying that Sonic lives on Earth is just as correct as saying that Sonic lives on Mobius, and the article reflects that the last time I checked. --DavidHOzAu 10:33, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, I believe that Sonic's slowed down when you're actually playing the game, but that's for a good reason; if Sonic was traveling at supersonic speeds, it would be impossible to control him!!!! --Luigifan 22:40, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

He never breaks the sound barrier in cutscenes either. The beginning of the Sonic Heroes opening, when Sonic was running by himself seems to be a perfect place for him to break the sound barrier if he could. The fact is, in the games, which is confirmed to be in a different universe to Sonic X and SatAM/Archie he never breaks the sound barrier. To be an encyclopaedic article there has to be proof for this fact and a reference that isn't SatAM/Archie/Early American manuals, Fleetway, Sonic X or Stay Sonic (In other words, the games or Sonic Channel). If it is not possible to prove this, the article needs to explain how this is merely speculation when it comes to the game's storyline. ROSSYMILES (ロシマイルス) TALK 07:39, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Well from a strictly scientific point of view, chaos control means that Sonic travels very very fast from an external frame of reference. (or is that the other way around?) --DavidHOzAu, making heads hurt worldwide, one head at a time. 12:57, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I meant he dosent travel faster in a 'normal' situation. (T_T) ROSSYMILES (ロシマイルス) TALK 11:23, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

True. --DavidHOzAu 08:39, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Well he obviously CAN travel at the speed of sound, it's just that in the games it would be impossible to control. In the Sonic Cd intro FMV, many parts show Sonic travelling at ridiculously fast speeds. Also the fact that in the next gen title Sonic the Hedgehog, the speed stages are called Mach Speed Zones, which implies that Sonic can run at mach speed, even if he doesn't in the game. Also, if I remember right, Sonic creates a Sonic boom in the Sonic the Hedgehog movie anime. Whether Sonic X is canon or not, I doubt that they'd blatantly lie about how fast Sonic runs.

Hey, over at a "ask Sonic" kind of thing[1] at Sonic Central, "Sonic" answered a question with "I have the ability to instantly accelerate to the speed of sound." And since it's Sonic Central, that's pretty official, right? 83.252.141.112 23:55, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually Sonic Central usually gets the anwsers of these questions wrong, they are generally contridicted by the games' stroyline and give an "americanised" view. As for the seemingly anonymous user above, even though some speeds seem incredibly fast they are nothing compared to the speed of sound. The term "Mach Speed" is over used as an exaggeration and generally dosen't imply "faster than sound" in popular culture. And the Sonic Anime is not canon, as it is set on Planet Freedom. ROSSYMILES (ロシマイルス) TALK 08:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

In Sonic Rush, Sonic can create a sonic boom using his Super Boost. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AXB-H (talk • contribs) .

http://sonicrivals.sega-europe.com/en/index.html

As you can see...he is capable of a Sonic Boom, which means he 'is faster than the speed of sound. Deny it and I'll smack you for Sega of Japan bias :PGrandMasterGalvatron 20:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

He is, it's been officially confirmed. And if it dosen't seem like it in the games, that's because it's in a game. If he was going at ACTUAL speed of sound, whoa, It would be hard to control him. So, don't take everything so literal. UnDeRsCoRe 00:29, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible source of new reliable citations

The character profiles at http://sonic.sega.jp/chara/index.html can be cited as sources in the character section if someone knew how to read Japanese. IIRC, all I've been able to do so far is translate stuff like the stats on Rouge's profile—however all the text at the bottom of each character profile page has not been accurately translated by anyone to my knowledge. --DavidHOzAu 05:39, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Kojichan can read japanese. Is he a wikipedian? ROSSYMILES (ロシマイルス) TALK 11:25, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

She is not, but I know a few people who can as well GrandMasterGalvatron 16:21, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

The Google translated version actually isnt too bad

http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&langpair=ja%7Cen&u=http://sonic.sega.jp/chara/index.html&prev=/language_tools

Neither is Altavista

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fsonic.sega.jp%2fchara%2findex.html

Google does a better job because it attempts to translate words it dosent understand, and it has a bigger dictionary. You can also pay people to do a good job. (if youre that dedicated to wikipedia) ROSSYMILES (ロシマイルス) TALK 12:24, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Er, I'm not that dedicated. :sweatdrop: If I had the money I'd probably buy a $60 GIS tool (ala OpenStreetMap) and improve the quality of articles on small towns close to where I live.

Anyway, I've tried to use Google and Bablefish before but I find that they tend to get confused on newlines. (they think they are always an end of a sentence.) However, I just downloaded a Firefox extenstion called Rikaichan and from the looks of it, translating Japanese text will be loads faster (and more comprehensive) than plugging words into an online dictionary. Try it out, it'll give you the meaning of words that Google and Babelfish miss, plus it'll work give you the meaning of words just by hovering over them. Sweet! --DavidHOzAu 06:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Looks like this line on the Google translated version might prove me wrong in the above talk discussion.

"True to its name it is the porcupine of supersonic speed"

I guess it depends on wether it literally means supersonic speed, or is just a metaphor. -ROSSYMILES (ロシマイルス) TALK 09:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edit war

There have been several back-and-forth edits regarding Sonic's birthplace. This issue needs to be clarified, and fast. Fast like Sonic himself! --Luigifan 12:50, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Official material has verified that Sonic's birthplace, is in fact, Christmas Island. BlackEDGE MkII 00:55, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Heh, I knew it! --Luigifan 01:16, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Super Sonic Merge rename

Super Sonic now has a merge tag which links here. Though I din't place the tag, I support this idea. I actually put the article up for deletion earlier but it fell through. Seriously though...Super Sonic does not need his own article. Every other Super Forms has their abilities listed under "Transformations" and Sonic should be no different...even with multiple forms. Besides, all of Sonic's forms are discussed in this article anyway and the Sonic the Comic and Sonic the Hedgehog data can ve moved into their respective character articles. GrandMasterGalvatron 17:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Um, I'm not so sure if that's a good idea. There's more stuff there than just the Super transformation of the video game character; there's a comprehensive history and other stuff that is not suitable for summary style. In short, one would be hard pushed to condense all that information into a form which can be put on this page or the series page. As it is all the characters only have a small summary section and link to the larger article. IMHO, Super Sonic would be more suitable for merging with Chaos Emerald since they are more closely related the transformation, but that too is probably a bad idea to begin with because Super Sonic isn't a Chaos Emerald. The other alternative, which I mentioned was the series article, might need a better summary section of Super Sonic, but that's it. I think it's better for editors and readers if we keep things in the same place and just link to them when the situation calls for it. --DavidHOzAu 05:59, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Well...how about renaming Super Sonic's article into one about Super Transformation and listing it as a feature...which it essentially is. I think I suggested this before but no one said anything....GrandMasterGalvatron 16:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I Think Super Sonic needs his own article. On various encarnations he is a different character, other than sonic himself. And Super Sonic's article is very big, plus Sonic's that is enormous, we will form a giant article. Better leave as it is.

If you referring to STC, then the Super Transformation is just something that brings out a different side of Sonic's personality. That being said, I think Super Transformation in Sonic the Hedgehog series might be a suitable title for the super sonic article. Yes, it probably should be a feature instead of a separate character, and Galvatron has my support in that respect. --DavidHOzAu 10:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

This AGAIN? Are people going to keep putting merge tags up until they get lucky and it does get merged? This page should not be merged. It would be adding too much info to an already long Sonic page. Not to mention that in STC Super Sonic is an individual character. No, no merge.--Zikar 03:11, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Note that this discussion has changed to "would a rename of Super Sonic to Super Transformation in Sonic the Hedgehog series provide a better direction for the article?". I just retitled the subheading to reflect this; hopefully future bystanders will not confuse the issue. I support a rename, not a merge. --DavidHOzAu 04:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Super Smash Bros. Brawl

Is he or isn't he? anyone got proof? Roxyr

Miyamoto-san wants Sonic to be in SMBB,but of right now,Sonic being in the game is unconfirmed. Who knows? Maybe he'll be revealed during the Nintendo World Tour. BlackEDGE MkII 01:32, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Should I mention the fact? Roxyr 16:24, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

No, well at least, not til we have complete proof he's in the game. BlackEDGE MkII 02:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sonic named after an airplane pilot?

Sounds familiar, can't place where I've read it before, although something about it screams copyvio and hoax to me. Anyone else got any thoughts on it? I've half a mind to litter it with {{citeneeded}}, comment it out, or just plain remove it. --DavidHOzAu 06:09, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I've read about it at Concept: Mobius, but that site is down now. 217.198.150.144 08:23, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

It was in the pamphlet that came with the 10th Anniversary gift package...I'll scan it if I can find itGrandMasterGalvatron 02:11, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The strange "Mary Garnet" story can be found here. If you can think of a good way of incorporating it into the article, good luck - outlining all the various spin-offs and continuities in a clear way is some challenge as it is, even without including one with next to no connection to anything else! --Nick R^Talk 12:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)