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Contents 1 Welcome to the Wikipedia 2 heya 2.1 Reply to heya 3 external links 4 thanks! 5 sri rudram 6 Templates 7 Sri Rudram text 8 Article Licensing 9 Hello 10 Re: 11 hinduism thanks 12 hinduism's conception of human beings 13 Welcome back - from Spade and Subramanian! 14 scripture 15 "He", etc. 16 Hello from a new Wikipedian 17 From Subramanian 18 Robert Hansen 19 Ayyavazhi 20 Lists 21 Featured articles 22 Translation 23 Peer review request for Vishnu sahasranama 24 Vivekananda 25 Indian wikipedia 26 Peer review 27 New article 28 Florida article about Jim Wales and wikipedia 29 Smartism 30 re:barnstar 31 re:Barnstar 32 Re... 33 Barnstar of diligence 34 Hi again 35 Addition 36 Wishes 37 Hindu-Arabic numerals 38 Monotheism 39 Vote 40 Brahman 41 Criticism 42 Re: Karma in Hinduism 43 Rama PR 44 FA work 45 FA ideas 46 human 47 Ravana's neutrality... 48 Addition to Ayyavazhi 49 Gobind/Govind/Govinda 50 Sub-heading details 51 Avatar... 52 Need Help 53 Request Help 54 problem of evil in hinduism 55 New Portal 56 Re: Social Worker 57 Purusha 58 History of Ayyavazhi 59 Anna Dharmam 60 Markandeya 61 "god" 62 Ayyavazhi 63 Citation 64 Ayyavazhi View 65 Ayyavazhi 66 AfD 67 Hinduism 68 Sign 69 Please contact outside wiki 70 Thanks 71 Sudama 72 Yeah 73 Sudama 74 Hi 75 Good morning 76 Re: 77 Reply 78 Request 79 New lists 80 Raja Yoga controversy 80.1 Greetings 80.2 Karma and Reincarnation in Hinduism 80.3 Reincarnation in Hinduism 80.4 Karma in Hinduism 80.5 Wikipedia:WikiProject_Hinduism/Shri for WP:HINDU users 80.6 Note 80.7 Thanks 80.8 Kama & Artha are lower Purusharths is a wrong statement. 80.9 Thanks Raj2004. 80.10 Oh Raj! 80.11 Could you right in block? and do you mean HeBhagawan is civil or incivil? 80.12 Raj, if you could tell me... 80.13 Raj, Will you pl. see talk page discussion of Hinduism and comment? 80.14 I had removed this two paragraphs which HeBhagawan reverted without replying that whether the same were included after discussion. 80.15 Raj, Could you tell me.. 80.16 Saguna Brahman

[edit] Welcome to the Wikipedia

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Be Bold!

Sam [Spade] 21:52, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

User talk:Raj2004/Ayyavazhi

[edit] heya

noticed your high-quality additions to the religion page regarding hinduism ... i had a few questions about hinduism i was hoping you might be able to answer. 1) what is the signifance of "sacred characters," such as "aum?" how do they affect one's spiritual life? 2) what is the relationship between hinduism and buddhism -- i.e. i understand the buddhism is typically considered by some to be a hindu "heresy," and that mahayana is more similar to hinduism than theravaada ... would you consider mahayana to be a synthesis of some sort? 3) is there a "conversion" process for hinduism? -- i.e. must one cease to be a christian to become a full hindu, or must one "convert" in one way or another to come to full truth?

thanks for your time:). Ungtss 16:40, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Reply to heya

Thanks for your compliment. 1) Om represents the primal manifestation or sound of the impersonal absolute brahman. Om is said before every Hindu prayer. It's sort of like amen but is said before each prayer. 2) Buddhism is not Hinduism and is ambivalent about the nature of God. Thervada Buddhism was getting too abstract for some theists and Mahayana Buddhism is not a sythesis but recognized messiah type figures who would help humanity to reach nirvana. Buddhism also rejects the Vedas, which in Hinduism, is the word of God. It would be like rejecting the Bible. I am not an expert on Buddism but there is this concept called shunyata or state of non-being. Hinduism vehemently disagrees and states that the Ultimate Reality is an eternal being-non-being or Brahman which can never be defined. There is no such per se heresy as I said before; each has to realize his own path to God. But Buddhism was considered heterodox as it rejected the Vedas. 3) Hinduism is not a missionary religion and respects each to follow what he believes is his own path to God. Hinduism is a broad concept and is divided into four major traditions, Shaivism, Shaktism, Smartism and Vaishnavism. Traditionally, if you accepted the beliefs and follow the philosphies, you were a hindu. http://www.vaishnava.com/abouthinduism.htm (There are 9 essential beliefs for a Hindu.) also please look at this site, http://www.dharmacentral.com/faq.htm You can contact them and they can answer more in depth as I am not a scholar on Hinduism although I have gained knowledge. However, in recent times, some Western-oriented sections of Hinduism such as ISKCON(for converts to Vaishnavism and http://www.himalayanacademy.com/info/contact.html, (for converts to Shaivism) have such conversion programs but they have a western bias. see for example, on amazon, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0945497822/qid=1100286622/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/104-1238920-4632701?v=glance&s=books http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/hbh/ (older edition available online.) I don't think you necessarily have to reject Christianity to adopt Hindu views. for you, Jesus is your conception of Saguna Brahman. Many Hindus consider him to be an avatarbut would not accept beliefs such as original sin and that He is the only avatar. others would consider him to be a great master.

http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/dws/Contents.html (an excellent book on Hinduism, but slanted towards Shaivism.)

Hope this helps. Raj2004

Hello Raj, I'm Subramanian, and I have noticed that we share many interests here. I want to say that I have been appreciating your contribuitions on Hinduism in general and I just came by to say thanks for you correcting the information on Benares as a holy city. Aum Shanti, --Subramanian 00:30, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Nayanar: Vanakkam Raj, it's a pleasure to read your articles, you manage to keep a great quality standard. I apologize I could not gather information enough to write it on my own, but it's nice that I now can contribute to the existing article. I have contacted the Himalayan Academy for help; both their and my end-of-the-year schedule, as well as the tsunamis disaster, took our attentions. They are creating a book that covers many of the saints, called "The Elephant Pass" - I thought you would like to know. Best, --Subramanian 06:31, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] external links

It is best to encase links to outside sites with one set of brackets. If this is not done, the wiki takes the link as the URL, which is not so nice. This can be done by clicking the button with the world on it if the link text is highlighted. If there is no other text added the brackets then the link takes the form of a footnote. The best is if you leave a space out and then put any descriptive text after this space. Try it out in the sandbox. --metta, The Sunborn ☸ 07:13, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks.

[edit] thanks!

thank you for all your data on hinduism ... it really cleared a lot of things up for me! Ungtss 14:32, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

No problem. Ungtss. Raj2004

[edit] sri rudram

hi Raj -- I did not (and don't) want to seem rude, but allow me to say that there is indeed some need to expand the article. I do not want to remove any information that was there, as thankfully you give the sources, and it indeed describes the prevalent, vedantic, interpretation. But, you must be aware that the 'translation' given is not literal at all. Simply take any Sanskrit dictionary and work through the text. It must have occurred to you that 'Vishnu' is not in the text. Again, as an interpretation the English rendition is of course very valid, but it should be labelled as such. I would convert the Sanskrit text to standard transliteration and give a literal translation, but I have more pressing tasks. Until we do get a literal translation, however, intellectual honesty dictates that we say that the English text is a free interpretation. As for the date, 3000 years is reasonable. However, it is reasonable for composition. Written fixation doesn't even enter the picture, as indian culture was and is predominantly oral. There was no writing in India prior to ca. 400-500 BC, and then not for religious texts for some time, so I think we better leave this out. Linguistically, the text cannot possibly be older than some 4000 years, and very probably closer to 3000. Again, please understand the distinction here: I do not contest at all that the intended meaning of "shipi-vishta" is indeed to equate Rudra with Vishnu, because I have no knowledge of that. It is very and npovly clear, on the other hand, that "shipi-vishta" does not mean "in the form of Vishnu". For this reason, "in the form of Vishnu" is a valid (at least in vedantic schools) interpretation, but not a "translation". regards, dab 08:26, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC) PS, for the purpose of 'monotheism' (which was why I looked at the article in the first place), it is a much less compelling example than RV 10.129,130: The interpretation is monotheistic. If we had only the text itself, we wouldn't get such an idea. The vedantic interpretation is probably aged some 2000 years, ie. considerably younger than the text itself (vedanta has completely overhauled vedic religion), and thus (as the text by itself) does not qualify as an early example of monotheistic thought. dab 08:30, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC) I agree with you partly. Rudram has been interpreted by Vedantists to support monistic theism. However, every commentator (Ramakrishna mission, Divine Life society, numerous web sites) that I have read have stated Rudra in the form of Vishnu. User:Raj2004

Sure. This is the common interpretation, and I have no issue with that. Translation is a different animal, and the two should not be confused. You don't have to believe me at all. Just take a Sanskrit dictionary and start looking up the words that interest you. The word that is rendered as "in the form of Vishnu" is shipi-vishta (Dative, shipivishtaya). Here is a dictionary entry: [1]. Besides "pervaded with rays" it could also mean "bald-headed", "leprous" or "having no prepuce", but I think we can disount these here. The point is that the epitheton was applied to both Rudra and Vishnu, and was therefore interpreted to suggest an identification of the two. This is completely legitimate, as long as we don't claim "in the form of Vishnu" is a literal translation. It is more like "o resplendent one [by the way, Vishnu is sometimes also called this]", as in "o you who are pervaded by rays, which incidentially brings to mind Vishnu, who is also pervaded by rays". That's fine, but it's not in the text.

Thank for the link. We would have to convert this text to the transliteration used on Sanskrit#Phonology_and_writing_system, e.g. shipivishhTaaya to śipiviṣṭāya. dab 12:31, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

what am I supposed to do with the pdf file? it's just the text in devanagari. The text we cite should be in standard transliteration. dab 12:45, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

ok, I rendered your text in scientific transliteration now. there were a few errors in the text, and I did it manually, hope I got it correct. dab 13:10, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for all your help. By the way, how do you get your time date stamped as you did? Raj2004

Type the four tildes ~~~~ dab 13:25, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Templates

Go to Template:Hinduism dab 15:47, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC) Agamas seems short and OK. What about hindu arts architectures and places of pilgrimage etc. I understand that it is difficult to organise topics under hinduism (as against good template on Islam); but there is certainly scope for it. Since i dont have the 'large picture'in my mind, i request members to have a though on it. (I somewhere observed that under festivals - varamahalakshmi vrata is also included. Is it such a big vrata except in Karnataka? The distinction between vrata and utsava also needs to be clearly spelled out).Thanks and regards Ramashray 15:06, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)Ramashray

[edit] Sri Rudram text

it's ok, Raj, I accepted the identification Rudra/Shiva=Vishnu as standard vedantic teaching all along. But I feel we are quoting too much text in the article. I think it will be better to export the actual text to Wikisource. Also, quoting the Amritananda translation in such length may be copyvio. I think we should only keep a short passage (the girivishaya, shipivishtaya part) in the article, and export the rest. dab 16:35, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I exported the text to Wikisource:Shri_Rudram_Chamakam now. I am still searching for the Chamakam in the Yajurveda though (book, chapter?) dab 17:03, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

found it, thanks. it's Yajurveda TS, iv. 5. and iv. 7.

[edit] Article Licensing

Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 2000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:

• Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered
• Multi-Licensing Guide
• Free the Rambot Articles Project

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

Option 1

I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

OR

Option 2

I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:

{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" with "{{MultiLicensePD}}". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

[edit] Hello

I've recently completely rewritten Caste and Brahmin using info from the 1911 encyclopedia. i'd appreciate your interest, if you'd like to have a look. Always glad to hear your opinion, Sam Spade wishes you a merry Christmas! 22:04, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

I am concerned we may be misunderstanding each other regarding Brahman, Brahminism, Smartism, Arya Sarmaj and Pantheism. I am curious, do you use any instant messangers? I use several, most of whuch are listed @ User:Sam_Spade/Info. I'd like to be able to speak to you more directly, perhaps it would reduce confusion. My best wishes, [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]) 03:32, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] hinduism thanks

thanks so much for the readings on hinduism -- sorry it took me so long to get back to you, but i wanted to let you know that they were all GREATLY appreciated and have expanded my world -- i am in your debt:). Ungtss 16:21, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] hinduism's conception of human beings

I am trying to get religious views added to the entry "Human". It currently looks like this:

According to some of the major world religions, human beings are variously considered to be created in the image of god (Judaism, Christianity, Islam), as the incarnation of an eternal, immaterial spirit (Hinduism, Buddhism), as an expression of the ineffable (Taoism), or as lacking any static nature whatsoever (Confucianism).

Would you like to critique the Hinduism part? --Goethean 01:00, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Very helpful. --Goethean 15:11, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your help at my Chalkboard. Tom Haws 17:08, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome back - from Spade and Subramanian!

Glad to see you editing again, I've missed you! Cheers, Sam Spade 12:16, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hi my friend Raj! I will use this space by Sam Spade because he is one of the people I will mention here. He recently said to me that he felt Hinduism was becoming an anti-Hindu article. I don´t think these people are ill-meant, but we have to stand strong for Hinduism - with a gentle hand. I wrote a comment at Talk:Lingam explaining to them why it is simplistic and only a instictive man would call the Lingam a phallic symbol. I hope it helps. I also suggest thet you bring our friend Spade to this. Meanwhile, we work. The Devas will help us. :-) Let us also be as kind and flexible as Hinduism is. Best, Satya Subramanian ^talk 08:28, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

"I find there is a lot of ignorance. Raj2004"

Yes, a lot. That´s why all we Wikipedians are here for: to fight for the light of information against ignorance. See you, Great Raj! Subramanian ^talk 09:31, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] scripture

he raj -- I don't want to argue this point too much, since it's really a terminological red herring. The Vedas are what is generally understood by "scripture", but if it was up to me I would avoid the term, because it is incorrect, pedantically speaking. The Vedas could not have been written down before ca. 300 BC, because there was no script. But that is not important, since Indian tradition places importance on memorizing texts, and looks down on written tradition. I am not trying to make the Vedas look less important by saying they were not written down. It's just, they weren't, and it didn't matter. dab (ᛏ) 10:21, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

there's no 100% dead certain with these questions. It is not known whether Panini's grammar was written down at all, and whether he lived closer to 500BC or to 300BC. The earlier he lived, the less likely he had anything written down. After all, Panini's grammar was intended to be memorized, just like the Vedas. Raj, the pattern of the adoption of a writing system is very similar in many cultures. there are typical, almost universal, steps. The Vedic/Hindu culture is very much in line with such a typical transformation from a nomadic to an agricultural, to an urban, to a literate civilization. You need a lot of background, about this and other cultures, and I cannot elaborate this all on your talk page. afaik, experts widely agree that the Vedic texts were not written down for at least 1000 years after their composition. They were redacted, i.e. put in a fixed form, in late Vedic times, perhaps at the time of Panini. It is difficult for us to imagine it, but this was almost certainly done without writing. The memories of whole clans was used instead of paper. This was about a 1000 years after the earliest hymns had been composed. This fixed text was passed down for many generations before writing started to be used, at first not to make "holy books" to keep in temples or libraries, but just as a tool for memorization, the writing could be discarded after the text was settled in your memory. This is what makes this culture so special, they relied on the living mind to store their texts, not on dead paper. If you are serious about contesting this, fundamentally, I'll dig up a couple of references, and you'll have to counter them with other references (after all, we're not supposed to think for ourselves (aka original research) for the purposes of Wikipedia  :)dab (ᛏ) 08:49, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "He", etc.

Ah, I didn't have to ask; the manual of style syas:

"Deities begin with a capital letter: God, Allah, Freya, the Lord, the Supreme Being, the Messiah. The same is true when referring to Muhammad as the Prophet. Transcendent ideas in the Platonic sense also begin with a capital letter: Good and Truth. Pronouns referring to deities, or nouns (other than names) referring to any material or abstract representation of any deity, human or otherwise, do not begin with a capital letter."

--Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 4 July 2005 11:24 (UTC)

[edit] Hello from a new Wikipedian

I am profvk. I have started contributing to Wikipedia only recently. I noticed you have already written several articles on Hinduism. I have not yet gone through them. But in the meantime I thought I should get in touch with you. Regards. --69.249.39.8 02:23, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your message in reply to the above. Yes, I have seen some of your talk pages. But I am not able to locate any of your articles. Please let me have names of some articles. Some of my new articles are: Vedantadesika, Jivanmukta, Appayya Dikshidar, South India's 75 Apostles of Bhakti, Jothi Ramalinga Swamigal, Sadashiva Brahman. And some of my contributions to existing articles are: Nayanars, Alvars, Vishishtadvaita, Bhakti, etc. Of course you can get a complete list from 'What links here' on my User page. But if I do this to your page I do not get a list of the articles you have written! I would like your comments on my articles. And also I would like your suggestions about topics where I can help. I am mostly interested in writing about advaita philosophy, and all great devotees of Bharat. --Profvk 16:56, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

OK. I shall work on Lalita Sahasranama. You can see already(earlier to your suggestion) I had added a few paragraphs to it. Now I shall expand it with some depth in terms of meaning and significance. You may also see my article on Devi Mahatmya which is a kind of introduction to the study of Lalita Sahasranama. In the meantime, why don't you add your name to the list of Participants in the Wikipedia:WikiProject Hinduism ? --Profvk 18:26, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] From Subramanian

Vanakkam Raj! I have been away for some time. How have you been doing?

I left one question of yours unanswered back at my talk page, I apologize. You asked me how many Hindus there are in Brazil; well, Dancing with Siva mentions 50, but I am yet to find the other 49. :)

I would like to talk to you about the article on Subramuniyaswami. You wrote there that technically it is impossible to convert to Hinduism. Well, he wrote a book called "How to become a Hindu', in which he exposes his large research on the topic, mentioning many famous converts since ancient times. It´s simply uncommon, as Hinduism is (thankfully!) not a proselytistic religion.

I considered explaining this at the introduction, but Gurudeva himself fought discrimination strongly and it already says there that he was born in California. As there is a biography there already, I choose to leave it so. I feel that writing that fact in the introduction would be to emphasize a dissimulated form of discrimination he fought against. Instead of explaining all this (perhaps an article on Hindu conversion would be the place), I chose to let his beautiful life, written right below, explain it all.

Aum Sivaya, shanti,

Satya Subramanian ^talk 15:16, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

I know you did not mean disrespect. I have you in the highest regard. In fact, you were not disrespectful at all, it would simply be a matter of emphasizing something Subramuniyaswami himself stood against. Always nice working with you. Subramanian ^talk

[edit] Robert Hansen

Hello Raj! Subramuniyaswami was born Robert Hansen according to this website Hawaiian Temple: Indian sculptors abstain from habits. Do you think it is appropriate to mention this in the article about him? Juan dela Cruz ^talk

[edit] Ayyavazhi

[edit] Lists

I have made many edits to List of Hindu deities and List of Hinduism-related articles, please have a look and see what you think. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 01:04, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Featured articles

The path to a Featured Article

Start a new article Develop the article Check against the featured article criteria Get creative feedback (Peer review) Apply for featured article status Featured articles

Madhva, Karma in Hinduism and avatar are each excellent articles. Of the 3, I think Shri Madhvacharya is closest, because it has nice images and seems reasonably thorough. I do think it could use a bit more content however, in certain sections. Avatar could use an image at the top, I think, and perhaps a bit more discussion of non-Hindu ideas of avatars. Karma in Hinduism is extremely good, but I am worried if the title is proper (maybe Karma (Hinduism) like Atman (Hinduism)?) , and also it needs some images. I think the next step is to look at some similar articles that are featured, and then submit a peer review. I'd be glad to help w that, and w making whatever changes people feel are needed for them to be featured, and I agree there isn't far to go. Cheers,

Tasks you can do 19:57, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Translation

Raj, I am really sorry for that, because I don't know any thing about that. I just place the terms in the quote. Yesterday when I present the quote, you didn't rise any question so I think that You may be through with those. If it confuse you, Iam sure that it will also do others. So what to do? -வைகுண்ட ராஜா

Thanks, I shall try -வைகுண்ட ராஜா

[edit] Peer review request for Vishnu sahasranama

I noticed that you attempted to place a peer review request for Vishnu sahasranama, but no peer review subpage appears to have been created for this article. In addition, the comments you added to Wikipedia:Peer review/DirectShow seem to indicate that you may be wishing to submit this article to Wikipedia:Featured article candidates instead of to peer review.

If your intention was to submit the article for peer review then please perform he first four actions described at Wikipedia:Peer review#Instructions (step 5 is currently completed). If your desire is to have the article considered for Featured Status immediately, then there is no need to submit a peer review request. Instead the instructions for submitting and article as a FA candidate are located at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates#Adding nominations. --Allen3 ^talk 19:43, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vivekananda

Raj, there's a counter to Ayyavazhi's influence on Vivekananda. See, the talk page - Vaikunda Raja

[edit] Indian wikipedia

Hi Raj, saw your post on Sam Spade's page. These are some India related links you may find useful:

	Links for Wikipedians interested in India content
Newcomers: Welcome kit | Register: Indian Wikipedians | Network: Noticeboard | Discussionboard Browse: India | Open tasks | Deletions Contribute content: Collaboration Dashboard - India WikiProject - Wikiportal India - Indian current events - Category adoptions

You can post your comments on your article to the India-noticeboard, maybe someone there might review it. User:Bhadani may have some time to spare in reviewing the page. Regards, User:Nichalp/sg 18:55, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Peer review

Hi, I left some comments for one of your peer review requests, Karma in Hinduism. I hope they were helpful. I can give you more comments on what it would take to have the article reach featured status if you like. - Taxman ^Talk 23:04, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New article

Raj, I've created a new article, Venneesan. - வைகுண்ட & ராஜா

Also take a look on expanded Kaliyan and Kalicchi

Raj, Also a new article. Take a look into Rules and Regulations to God-heads. - Vaikunda & Raja

Raj, Sorry it's a spelling mistake. It was Sandal.

Raj, again a new article Tatvas. Take a look. - Vaikunda & Raja

[edit] Florida article about Jim Wales and wikipedia

Hi, Sam There's an interesting article about Jim wales and wikipedia. http://www.floridatrend.com/issue/default.asp?a=5617&s=1&d=9/1/2005

Interestingly, Jim is virtually unknown in Florida, where he lives and is more famous outside the Us.

Raj2004 00:33, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

That is an extremely good article, thank you! I'm going to post it on the mailing list. Sam Spade 13:56, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

See [2]. Cheers, Sam Spade 14:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Smartism

Thanks for the reply, Raj. I was questioning the line: As per [Adherents.com] the majority of Hindus are Vaishnavas, though often mixing in some aspects of the Smarta viewpoint.

which cites adherants.com website. Originally, I edited the page to say something like:

Many Hindus do not belong/adhere to any particular denomination and tend to be smarta, the most inclusive, in belief.

That is because most Hindus (mostly non-brahmins) don't classify themselves under any denomination. The majority may worship Vishnu but I think they hold smartist beliefs. I may be wrong, but the website doesn't help as it doesn't distinguish smartism as a denomination and possibly distributes the smartists into other categories.

I will try to word my question on the page better. (I am Vaishnavite in belief myself) --Pranathi 21:35, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

I would like to also say that Smartha is not commonly seen to be a denomination, and that most Hindu's are probably Smartha, because most don't have a chosen denomination at all, but agree w many smartha beliefs. of those who do choose a denomination label however, I again agree w Pranathi that most of these are Vaishnavites. Sam Spade 22:50, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Avatar#Types of avatars

Hi, I really appreciate what you are doing. I originally didn't know anything about Hinduism except that they honour cows (from TV). I was once doing some research on gilgul (the orthodox Jewish concept of reincarnation) and I found out that it is used in Hinduism today. Fascinating links, may our religions and cultures live on.... Izehar (talk) 23:57, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I've often wondered, the many Hindu deities are supposed to be manifestations of a single divine source called Brahman, right? Does Brahman have a personality like the Jewish G-d, or is It/He an impersonal force? The Jewish G-d is often described to have emotions and thoughts and other human qualities such as anger in certain quotes from the Torah such as and Elohim was angered... (Elohim or אלהים in Hebrew is what G-d is often called in the Torah, it resembles the Muslim Allah, which shows the links between the two religions). Qualities such as "being merciful" are often atributted to Him as well (the same goes for Islam and Christianity). Can the same be said for Hinduism? Izehar (talk) 00:27, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Tanks for clearing a few things up for me. It all seems so complicated... One of the reasons Islam was supposed to be so successful was its simple religious doctrine - Hinduism has almost as many followers, and its doctrine seems (at first at least) utterly incomprehensible. One last question: is ISKCON a legitimate form of Hinduism in the eyes of mainstream Hindus? Izehar (talk) 00:53, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I remember reading somewhere that according to the Vedas, Hinduism has 300 million deities and the reason for that being that when you count your gods in milions, numbers become meaningless and as a result, "blur the picture" of the "Supreme Deity", which cannot be defined. Also, on a more personal tone, what Hindu branch do you affiliate to? Izehar (talk) 01:11, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I think an important aspect of a religion is not to try to convert people. In Judaism, we are taught that when you approach someone and try to convert then to another faith, that is the greatest arrogance, as you are telling him/her that your faith is better or superior. Christians and Muslims unfortunately don't share that view, but claim that their religions are the only way to G-d. I'm not criticising, as everyone is entitled to their opinions, but that view has lead to savage persecutions against the Jews and other "unfaithfuls" for years (see Christianity and anti-Semitism and Islam and anti-Semitism). Christians believe that Jesus said that no one gets to the Father (G-d) except through him (in other words, he is the only way and the Jews who rejected his teachings shall not be saved). Muslims quote the Koran, and say that while they must respect those who believe in the same god and that includes the Children of Israel (the Jews), that doesn't stop Jews being rejected as kafirs (non-believers) and being treated accordingly. I do give them this though; Jews in Muslim countries escaped the terrible persecutions inflicted in Christian Europe. It's a good thing that Hindus respect other religions and don't claim exclusivity - the I am right, and everyone else is wrong attitude. Izehar (talk) 01:39, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] re:barnstar

Hey - I guess the thing fell flat. Nevertheless, with the barnstar I wanted to compliment your good culture and great work. "Sewa" is like service to Wikipedia, and "sabhyata" is your personal culture. I've personally had a tough time dealing with some difficult people here, but I wanted to compliment you.

Anywayz, take care. Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 01:18, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Very glad to see some well deserved awards coming your way! Often the wikipedia has too much complaining and not enough thanks, but your generous contibutions and noble spirit are clearly deserving of our gratitude! Cheers,

Sam Spade 14:33, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Hey, sorry I made a tiny mistake...forgot to sign within the barnstar..will make that correction with your permish.

Rama's Arrow 04:44, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you much, see [3] :D

Sam Spade 13:32, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliments Raj. Lemme know if there are areas you want me to help you in, or things I need to improve upon.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 06:03, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] re:Barnstar

Hi Raj,

Thanks a million holmes! A very perfect Christmas gift!

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 15:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re...

Sorry about that. I knew about "Acyuta", but the misspelling and what could only be called quasi-vandalism by the Anon blinded me to that. I just think that Krishna, Shiva, Bhagavata purana and almost every other Hinduism article here need major cleanups, and as of now cannot afford to be messed up even more, even if there are valid points of information in the gibberish. Concerning the Kroni-Satan thing, I just don't think it's a valid analogy (at least not lead paragraph material), as their roles are completely different. In Hebrew myth, Satan committed the first evil act (tempting Eve) because he was in the employ of Yahweh, testing them. (My personal feelings about Yahweh aside, he is viewed by his followers as being basically good.) The eternal nature of Kroni (basically just being the source of evil) is entirely different to Satan's role as a physical being that rebels against Yahweh/Jesus and sop is viewed as being evil, who can and will ultimately be defeated. Since Hindu/Ayyavazhi mythology (as well as the existence of the human soul in that mythology) is essentially infinite, it cannot really be compared to the finite universe portrayed in the Bible, which essentially only lasts a few thousand years before returning to God. I don't want to start an argument over this issue, so I will not revert your edit 'til I hear what you have to say about it. (P.S.: I have no problem with the article mentioning Satan, as long as it does not subtly attempt to equate the two, and does not do so in the header.) elvenscout742 22:17, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar of diligence

I'm sorry to be a sop Raj, but your diligence is innovative and amazing. The God and gender thing is a perfect example to illustrate your point. I used to be endlessly enraged when I saw the reference to the Almighty in Judeo-C and Islamic as God, and Vishu/Siva/Rama/Krishna referred to as Hindu gods.

The distinction is you could do something good about it. My heartiest congratulations.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 13:45, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Holmes is Latino slang for friend/brother, casual address.

Why did you delete my suggestions message?

Rama's Arrow 17:08, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

dat's cool.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 17:31, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Raj - although you may not be interested, there is a final vote ongoing to resolve the Hindu-Arabic title issue. I strongly suggest that you cast your vote - that will help resolve the issue once and for all.

Jai Sri Rama!

Rama's Arrow 21:08, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hi again

Thanks for responding to my message. Yes Dear Raj, I fully agree with you that the level of awareness about figures and concepts relating to Hinduism by a number of Hindus in India is less than several others born and brought up outside India. Perhaps, all persons interested in this matter must endeavor to create better awareness amongst our Hindu brothers and sisters, living in India as well as in other countries. We, the wikipedians, may do this in our own way by our collective effort to expand the contents of Hinduism related stubs/ articles. I shall do whatever may be possible depending on my knowledge and time. We should inter-act more. Thanks. --Bhadani 09:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Addition

Raj, some additions to Ayyavazhi; Please take a look into Ayyavazhi. Thank You .- Vaikunda ^{(<.^.>)} Raja

Raj, Ayyavazhi conception of time is linear; According to Hinduism the four yugas came repeatedly in a circular manner. But in Ayyavazhi, the life begins from neetiya Yukam and ends in Dharma Yukam. Dharma Yukam is stated to be eternal(for ever). There is no quote in Akilam to object it. (i.e): The way of narration will be studied and concluded it to be a linear one which is also accepted by most theologians of Ayyavazhi. No quotes in akilam to say the yugas being repeated. It may be suitable to say that,"As far as Akilam is studied, it reveals only that".

Then, which website states so? "It is Kalanemi/Kroni who approaches to destroy Dharma and righteousness in every yuga. From far away in Patala loka, he approaches nearer and nearer and finally at the end of Kali-yuga, God destroys him and throws him again far away and the satya yuga starts. These cycles (of chathur yugas) repeat continuously. Only the names and forms of Kalanemi may be different in different yuga cycles."- Vaikunda ^{(<.^.>)} Raja

Raj, I feel really sorry I not noticed this so far. According to Akilam this site had done a major mistake. One example the skanda and Rama incarnates in different Yugas as per Akilam. But here!!!?. Also look at the number of yugas!!! I think they had tried to mingle Akilam and previous hindu scriptures. In such matters that is impossible to mingle those as joining the north and south poles. Sorry and Thank you for information. Then I added some history to Ayyavazhi. Please take a look. That you.- Vaikunda ^{(<.^.>)} Raja

[edit] Wishes

I wish you and your family a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year. --Bhadani 17:25, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hindu-Arabic numerals

Hi! User:RN moved the article to Arabic numerals despite 28 votes favoring the title "Hindu-Arabic numerals" and only 17 favoring "Arabic numerals." He argues that if we don't count voters with less that 150 (or sth like that) edits, only 56% voters "support changing the title to Hindu-Arabic numerals", while at least 60% support votes are required. However, it was agreed between all parties in the beginning of the vote that the proposal is to move the article to "Arabic numerals" from "Hindu-Arabic numerals." It was also agreed (though I thought it was very unfair) that:

• Those opposing the move have the advantage that it won't be moved unless there's a 60% majority
• Those supporting the move have the advantage that the person proposing the move can do the *short* opening statement.
• For all the rest of the voting procedure both parties are equal. (quoting Francis Schonken from 21:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC))

I would definitely have preferred it the other way round, since I think an opening statement makes a HUGE difference, since many people just read the opening statement and understandably don't bother with the discussion below the votes. The present situation was accepted with the agreement that the article will be moved to "Arabic numerals" only if more than 60% voters favored that title. Thus, only 40% oppose votes were sufficient to retain the title "Hindu-Arabic numerals." In the present situation (with over 60% voters opposing the change), I find the move to "Arabic numerals" ridiculous, besides being completely unjust and unfair. Your comments will be appreciated. deeptrivia (talk) 05:12, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Monotheism

Raj, I personally disagree on recent changes to monotheism. The content is long and tedious and needs to be simplified. Though your intent is to explain the concept to westerners, I doubt people will go through the entire explanation - presentation of which may be complicated for someone from a non-Hindu framework. Monotheism is primarily an Abrahamic concept - even the intro does not mention Hinduism, which is better described by monism or monistic theism. But the lengthy discussion on Hinduism seems defensive and as if seeking acceptance from a people that see monotheism as the ideal. It is unencyclopediac. Also the page lumps Hinduism into polytheism under the heading 'comparisons to polytheism' while at the same time saying that it is not polytheistic? --Pranathi 19:55, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree, Raj. But with such a diverse philosophy, how relevant is it to have so much info on Hinduism in the monotheism page. It is diverting focus from the main topic. Also, I didn't like lumping Hinduism under the polytheism section. Do you agree? --Pranathi 23:41, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

sounds good to me, Raj. --Pranathi 00:00, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Looks good, Raj. I think it needs a bit more work - like adding more about the concept itself, Abrahamic religions (not just origins in these religions) and moving the comparisons to polytheism to bottom .. etc. I'll try and make the changes later. thanks for discussing, --Pranathi 01:50, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vote

Raj, If you are intrested please vote here- Vaikunda ^{(<.^.>)} Raja

[edit] Brahman

Can you think of which branch of Hinduism most directly worships Brahman today? I have been studying the veda's for many years, and the clearest message to me is that of a Brahman realisation, or collective consciousness/unconsciousness. I admit I find such things as Śivaism and Vaishnavism extremely confusing. For me God has no one form, but every form, favouring only that of righteousness. Sam Spade 23:08, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism

Raj, I wholeheartedly accept your criticism; we needed a little time to get to terms on the Visnu and Rudra articles, but since we are both good faith editors, it all worked out to the benefit of the articles. I just thought that this bad faith-rfc was maybe not the perfect place of voicing it, but after all, why not, it helps turning it into a genuine good-faith rfc, and it may help me take a step back. I do think you are a great asset to the Hinduism articles. dab (ᛏ) 09:12, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

well, I do not even pretend to know much about Hinduism. I know my Sanskrit, in particular Vedic Sanskrit, and I know some things about Vedic religion, necessarily, from the Vedic texts. I don't want to meddle Hinduism proper, but I want the articles to get their historical and linguistic facts right ("fact" of course always referring to academic discourse, not to "absolute truth"). On religious articles, pious editors sometimes have difficulties allowing sections discussing academic opinions. This is when the conflicts start. I am happy with having any amount of religious information, but I will always insist that schlolarly opinion is included, and that the two are not confused. Take for example "guru". The linguistic facts are clear and undisputed. That doesn't mean I want to censor the "light/darkness" interpretations, they shed an interesting light on how the term is contemplated, I just insist that they are separated from the linguistic discussion. regards, dab (ᛏ) 11:33, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Karma in Hinduism

I'm always glad to help out and reverting vandalism just happens to be the way that gets the most publicity, good and bad. Thanks for the support. --Zsinj 00:04, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rama PR

Hi Raj - I need your help and advice in making this a Featured Article, a process which I've now started. Jai Sri Rama! Rama's Arrow 07:47, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FA work

Hi Raj - I recently got the India integration article FA'd and I can give you some advice on stuff to watch out for. I'm posting it here coz its mainly for you:

(1) First off, if you want to work on two articles to get FA'd, you should drop everything else and focus on this. Its a lot of work, and as the main guy who wants these to become FA, you need to do all the cross-checking and legwork. Maybe you should consider going one article at a time as well.

(2) Put your articles on peer review, advertise them a lot (including personal request for help). You need to re-open peer review on your two articles and keep it open for 3 weeks minimum. It helps for voters to see that you've done the best possible work. Advertise this effort on Portal:Hinduism, Indian topics notice board, etc.

(3) References: both your articles incorporates a lot of external links, but this is not good enough, especially for articles on religion and mythology. You need to have book references - NY Public Library, Amazon, anything that works is good.

(4) Inline Citations: I know its not a formal requirement, but inline citations are vital especially for religion articles - when there is a sentence that states a new fact or makes an assertion, you need to provide a direct link to the source. People are picky about this in the voting process.

(5) Lead: an article of FA quality needs 2-3 opening paras that broadly summarize the article and cover its main points.

(6) Images: again it is no formal requirement, but images are strongly encouraged. For the articles you've chosen to work on, images of Vishnu and any rishis/philosphers who advocated Karma are good options. Plus, they need to be proper copyright - consult user:Deepak gupta, or user:Miljoshi. They're experts on these things.

(7) You need to be comprehensive on the subjects you tackle. That's another good reason why you need book references - especially Hinduism.

(8) Don't go POV - keep original research, your personal convictions out of the mix. I'm saying this coz I know you're a passionate Hindu.

(9) Imbib this in your work!

I know I'm kinda lecturing, but believe me, its not easy to make complicated subjects into FAs. That's why FAs are the best work around. I'll help you as much as I can. Jai Sri Rama! Rama's Arrow 03:37, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

P.S. - Vishnu Sahasranama looks more comprehensive, so I would recommend you work on it first. Definitely re-open peer review. On Karma in Hinduism - its not comprehensive, cite differences with Buddhism/Jainism, and cut out the section on one Swami's interpretation. You should create a bigger, balanced interpretation section. Definitely explore how real, common Hindus have incorporate karma in real life - the caste system was inspired by karma. Rama's Arrow 04:31, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FA ideas

Hi Raj - I didn't wish to imply that its a gigantic task - if you can finish (1) addition and organization of text, that's the bulk of your work. (2) this step is making corrections, listening to other opinions and revise the article. FA writing is a 3-4 week process - 2-3 weeks on peer review, and 1 week on the vote.

You should pick one article at a time - you're sure to have help. FA is the best work here, so obviously it takes a good bit of your time. Rama's Arrow 20:54, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Lemme add my example: I finished the bulky info adding to Lothal and Rama first - made sure to cite sources and inline citations - and have opened it up for peer review. Its quite manageable right now - an hour a day or less. I hope to achieve FA status for both by end of February max. Rama's Arrow 20:57, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] human

I was wondering if you might like to participate at talk:human, where we are having trouble with neutrality regarding religion and spirituality. Curreently things are a bit unbalanced... have a look if you will, Sam Spade 16:10, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ravana's neutrality...

I know this is old hash by now, but it seems that "The Encyclopedia of World Mythology" - which I know from personal experience has been published and republished in several languages - puts forward quite openly that many Sri Lankans view Ravana as having been a fairly good king. Should we not have put this in? elvenscout742 23:51, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, treating a character who was at one stage in Hebrew mythology (Lucifer/Satan) was good, but is now considered by pretty much all believers in him as evil, as good, would not really be the same. Apparently, some real, modern people in (Sri )Lanka consider Ravana to have been a good king of that island. This should be enough to warrant mention, even if he is almost unversally considered an evil demon. That aforementioned encyclopedia even has a four-page chapter on "Sri Lanka", which is separated from "India", and puts some time into a discussion of how Ravana may be a pre-Aryan, south Indian, Dravidian god who was originally good and is still revered by a small community in Sri Lanka. Actually, now that I think about it, that's EXACTLY like Satan. But the Christians and Jews who control everything in the Western world where a majority vote wins would never let that by here. elvenscout742 02:18, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Addition to Ayyavazhi

Hai Raj, I had added this sub-heading Ayyavazhi to the Ayyavazhi article. Please take a look. Do it need any modification or addition? please tell. Thank You. - Vaikunda ^{(<.^.>)} Raja

[edit] Gobind/Govind/Govinda

Hi Raj,

Just thought I'd let you know I've added my comments regarding Gobind -> Govinda on Talk:Waheguru. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 12:33, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Raj. I've added another comment to the page. It appears Jhugman deliberately removed the distinction between Gobind and Govind in the English translation and I never picked up on it until now :D

So yes, you are correct, it refers to 'Govind' and not the tenth Guru. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 13:08, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi - I see you removed this phrase:

"The use of the name of Hindu deities does not refer to the deities themselves, but instead is a reference to God."

I don't understand what seems to be the issue with the phrase? It's not suggesting that all Hindus consider Krishna a diety - it is however the prevailing view (maybe avatar would be a better phrase). Also, I don't see why we would need the comparison with Gaudiya Vaishnavism on the Waheguru page? Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 13:34, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I've replied again on my talk page. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 15:32, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sub-heading details

Sorry for my mistake. The sub-heading I added is etymology. Thank You. - Vaikunda ^{(<.^.>)} Raja

[edit] Avatar...

This article proclaims that both Kŗşņa and Balarāma are among the ten Mahā Avatāra of Vişņu. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought (from my reading of Book X of the Śrīmad Bhāgavata Purāna) that Balarāma was the partial incarnation of Vişņu's nāga friend Ananta, not Vişņu himself. Could you shed some light on this problem? elvenscout742

[edit] Need Help

Raj, thanks for your help so far. Now I had added a sub-heading to Ayyavazhi, Ayyavazhi#Phenomenology. Please take a look and help me if it need any modifications. Thank you. - Vaikunda ^{(<.^.>)} Raja

Raj, Moksha concept is hard to found in Ayyavazhi. The concept of ekam in Ayyavazhi seems closer to the conception of moksha. But in the linear conception of Ayyavazhi the end is the Dharma Yukam where Ayya rules as a king. If some one rules as a king, is there any sign for personal liberation? But still this is not to be confirmed because mind you the ekam(ultimate oneness) incarnated as Vaikundar. So if Vaikundar rule as a king (may be) all others (all the rest) will be a part of Vaikundar then, and not out side him. But the word moksha came in few places in Akilam. One example, in one place Vaikundar is told that "one who gives moksha". There are possibilities for moksha!? But on a sudden vision no signs for the same moksha (as addressed in Hinduism) in Akilam. - Vaikunda ^{(<.^.>)} Raja

[edit] Request Help

Raj, i will be soon with ayyavazhi work to forgiveness and by the way, will you don't feel difficult Can you help me by bringing to my knowledge any users who can translate the Ayyavazhi article to other world major Languages. - Vaikunda Raja 19:16, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

=

[edit] problem of evil in hinduism

Raj,

Hinduism does not have "many" solutions to problem of evil. First of all the, there is NO problem of evil since the souls are all eternal. second, it is not a dvaita solution, it is a hindu solution. Different schools only differ in identifying soul as distinct or identical to brahman..in any case its eternality is not compromised. please revert back to the old version. regards SV 16:46, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

The concept of karma is also there in christianity (as you sow so shall ye reap) may be not as well developed as hinduism. But none of the solutions will be meaningful if God is ultimately its creator. So the important aspect is the "eternality" of souls. In advaita, the beginningless karma is ultimately mithya. in dvaita, it is derived from the potency of the soul itself (jiva satva). regards SV 17:05, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

"problem of evil" is basically the incompatibility of an omni-benevolent God with evil in this world. Hinduism does not have it since there isnt creation ex nihilo (according to the brahmasutra ||om lokavattu leela kaivalyam om||, creation is just a spontaneous outpouring of the bliss of Brahman, without any purpose). This creation is only transformation of already existing souls and Nature in their dormant state. regards SV 17:26, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Portal

Raj, I've created a new Portal:Ayyavazhi. Please take a look. Thank you. - Vaikunda Raja 22:10, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Raj. - Vaikunda Raja

---

Raj: 'Brahman' (i.e., me or you) is Saguna, otherwise the universe would not have been created. The 'gunas' have not been fully comprehended by the only object created by it that is capable of comprehending it (human mind), though acheivements of the human mind are commendable. At the moment we know that 'Brahman' sort of frolicks for reasons unknown to human mind. An electron changing into a positron with a fart (emmission of a nutrino). Another fart (emmission of Gamma Ray) and positron changes back into an electron. This sort of thing has gone on at least for the last 14 billion years every attosecond (that is the smallest time interval that I find on the internet, 10 raised to power -12 of a second). That leaves many things unexplained and human mind continues its search with the string theory which is supposed to be better, nine strings in all. One thing is certain; mercy (al-Rahim), bountifulness (al-Rehman), and 'gunas' like that which human mind has usually associates with it are not in contention. They are more of a physical sort. Also there is an indeterminancy associated with it. 'Brahman' tries to shield its secrets from prying minds. Thanks, your query makes me think. Aupmanyav 06:30, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Social Worker

Hi Rohit. I do not have much time to contribute here until next week. You can request help at Wikipedia talk:Notice board for India-related topics. -- Sundar ^{\talk \contribs} 04:30, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Rohit, I agree with that many Hinduism articles were written by non-Hindus. Not till you, me and many others like Aupmanyav, were we able to try to change the views of ignorant people! I, for myself, wrote articles such as Karma in Hinduism to distinguish from that of Buddhism.

Keep up the good work!

Regards,

Raj2004 02:30, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi Raj,

Yes it is unfortunate that Hindus are being taught Hinduism by outsiders. But we are to blame for it. Many amongst us have this mental-block that the west is always right - perhaps because they are developed. Plus how many of us really care to read the scriptures? How many parents really encourage their kids to read the Gita, or tell stories based on it? Add to that the twisted notion of secularism we have, the kind of history that is taught (which is biased against Hinduism) in schools only makes kids confused about Hinduism. If you look at it, everytime minorities in India assert themselves "secular" Hindus will welcome it, but if the same is done by Hindus, these very "secular" Hindus will vehemently and viciously oppose it. Regarding articles, I think if any non-Hindu tries to oppose us we must ask them to shut-up because they want their west-centric view of Hinduism to prevail. Their description is coloured with "what they think" Hinduism is.

Rohitbd 07:57, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi Raj, Yes, India is a democracy...but we have the most vote-hungry politicians. I don't know who to blame more...politicians who are more than willing to break every rule to be in power, or ourselves for staying away from politics - we say politics is for scoundrels and stay away from it, so who else but scoundrels are left to get into politics. IMHO these are the major reasons for pseudo-secularism. Rohitbd 19:49, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Purusha

Purusha, much like Brahman seems alot like God. Unless they think he is Vishnu, he is not worshipped directly by Hindu's however? Sam Spade 22:16, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History of Ayyavazhi

Raj, A new article was created History of Ayyavazhi. Please take a look and do anything if needed. - Vaikunda Raja 22:01, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anna Dharmam

Raj, I think exactly they were same. But in Ayyavazhi it was not said to offer a certain percent of their income or enything. But simply said that you offer what you can.

But some facts related to that. In ayyavazhi the food is been served by the Panividaiyalars (the people in pathis) in pathis with out any spoons. They serve with their two hands joined and immersed in the rice. They all use to eat only after all were served everything. Like in sikhism also in Ayyavazhi the practice on the other hand stress the breakining out of cast and other ineqalities. -Vaikunda Raja 18:24, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Markandeya

Thanks. The page is still a stub, and we have to expand it lot. You are right. --Bhadani 09:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Please also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Bhadani#Markandeya_2 Thanks. --Bhadani 10:14, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Great that the Markandeya homa was performed! I wish very long long life to your grand mother. --Bhadani 07:40, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "god"

Some prefer to use lower case, some upper; the custom is generally that it isn't changed — if the article uses upper, I leave it upper, and if it's lower, I leave it lower. My own view is that upper case is PoV ("god" isn't a proper name, so there's no NPoV reason to use a capital), but my custom on Wikipedia is to defend the status quo in the article. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:50, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ayyavazhi

Some issues that may be of interest to you were discussed at Talk:India#Ayyavazhi which are now being continued at Talk:Ayyavazhi#No_reference. Tintin (talk) 09:11, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, okay. I thought you and Vaikunda Raja were both editors of the Ayyavazhi articles... Tintin (talk) 10:15, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation

Raj, I've provided some citations in Ayyavazhi. Please take a look. - Vaikunda Raja 21:02, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Can we cite wikisoure content of Akilathirattu Ammanai to that. I was asking because the line is in Tamil. Or shall we just refer the verse number? - Vaikunda Raja 10:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Raj I am going to cite it, but from tamil wiki source. And I accept wiki policies. But look here. How many citation templates through the article. In inclu and exclusivism topic that template is placed in the sentece as well as its reference see:("As once on the non-liberative Cross, suffered the beatings of thorns, dead and reanimates for uplifting the poor, for this yuga here, he suffer this for the liberation of the downtrodden."[citation needed] By this it means that Vaikundar was the one who incarnates as Jesus and so by this verse Akilam accepts Christ.[citation needed] )

Right through the article this was done. For example see here:(To the Ayyavazhi devotees, there are five holy places, called Pathis, with "Panchappathis" being the most important.[citation needed]). This is mentioned in three external links.

Then the topic New religious phenomenon had been removed completely though I cited it. Then most of the religious studies had been asked to be cited. I already told that I was creating the sourc in Wikisource and to wait till then. But till they were all marching against it. Does all the article in wikipedia were cites line by line. But Ayyavazhi article was asked to do so. I've already said that this religion was mostly followed by sub-altern section and so the lack of source on net. But still I was trying hard to cite what ever asked.

Then another user in the talk page of article India compare Ayyavazhi to hero stone worship. Is this a way to study a religion? He said, "There may be thousands of herostones in India been worshipped. We cannot provide an article for each". What to tell?

I feel really hurt that each and every line was asked to be cited. And till I was doing. Please help. - Vaikunda Raja 10:43, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ayyavazhi View

There are two types of religions. One constructed religions and other given by God. I mean on their own views. For example some religions say that their leader was only a teacher(costructed) . (For example Islam Bhai etc..) Other say their founder as God (for eg Christianity, Ayyavazhi). That constructed religions in the view of Ayyavazhi is the result of the intention of Man. And others the intention of God. It seems Ayyavazhi completely disagree the religions results from the intention of man. That is, it use to place an unpredictable law beyond human conception. The law beyond human conception will not reach to a person who likes to make a religion. Since the constructed religions may only be constructed for propagating several rules and regulations, they were rejected.

It was in this way Ayyavazhi rejects Bible and the teachings of Mohammad. But accepts Christ and the conception of Allah. On the other hand its view about Hinduism is controversial. Ayyavazhi accepts Vedas (only vedas as book of perfection) and Agamas and Puranas. But we do not know how much puranas were given by God and how much by human intention. Because in Akilam itself says that Kaliyan performed additions with scriptures. The second the scriptures bought as boons by Kaliyan.

And as far as I've read the constructive religions were completely rejected and the others generally accepted. But cannot confirmed because still we do not know which all were given by God.

And I don't know what others think about religions but from the vision of Ayyavazhi we can reject completely the constructive religions. - Vaikunda Raja 23:27, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ayyavazhi

Hi, I recollect that you had had earnest, near-theological discussions with Vaikunda Raja about Ayyavazhi. You may be interested in participating in this discussion. Best regards, ImpuMozhi 22:14, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I see that you insist on reverting the removal of Ayyavazhi from the Harihara article. Can I understand your rationale for this? My reasons are in the open if you care to look into the discussion pages for India, History of Tamil Nadu, Ayyavazhi etc. While myself and a number of other have no objection in the dozens of Ayyavazhi articles and stubs created by User:Vaikunda Raja, we are trying to curb the insertion of Ayyavazhi in thousands of main articles such as Menstrual cycle, Vegetarianism, Devil, etc. IMO Harihara is one such summary page in which an obscure faith such as Ayyavazhi has no place - precisely because WP is an encyclopaedia. Would you also insist on adding the names of each any every minor sect we have in India which believes in the concept of 'Harihara'? - Parthi 22:34, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AfD

Can you please review this page and take a view on its AfD? Thanx, ImpuMozhi 01:49, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hinduism

What people like Aupmanyav propagate and follow is just "cultural Hinduism" and not religious Hinduism. Thats why they are rather more comfortable with atheism + the deities as beautiful dumb dolls. My criticism against him includes his bend towards atheism too.Cygnus_hansa 17:41, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Cygnus_Hansa gets me wrong. The deities of theist Hinduism are cultural heroes to me and very much alive, ones that I cannot live without, from whose stories I take my cues for conduct in life. Cygnus may have problems with my atheism (though I strongly feel that Hinduism has no problems with that), I do not have any with his theism (after all I was a theist for nearly the whole of my life). Even now my cultural heroes are not very far from being deities. Aupmanyav 10:32, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sign

My signature is Cygnus, not Cyrus.Cygnus_hansa 06:03, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please contact outside wiki

Hai Raj, Good questions and I will answer all of them. But I no more (I've stopped) edit in english wiki. So please contact through some other ways ; (I don't know your mail id) - provide an e-mail id [or] contact to the mail - vaikundaraja_poovandar@yahoo.co.in . we shall share all our opinins. Please don't mistake. Thanks - Vaikunda Raja

would love a little more organization for Hinduism pages. Best wishes, Aupmanyav 10:23, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for helping out on the Sudama article. Your contributions added a lot to the page and brought another perspective to the morals of such a great man.Bakaman _Bakatalk 00:25, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sudama

Great work on the article. --Bharat 04:34, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi - yes its very nice to hear from you - was thinking of dropping a note myself. Sorry for not replying on your first message, but last 2 weeks haven't been very active. This is really a bad season for people working on Indian and Hindu subjects, in the sense most of us are busy and intermittent. I'll try to help on Sudama and Karma, but can't say for sure.

First off, Freedom at Midnight is a bad reference - it is overly dramatized. Amongst other things, it alleges that Vinayak Damodar Savarkar and Nathuram Godse were homosexual. All this is inaccurate. It is true that Jinnah was not an observing Muslim - he hadn't read the Quran, took alcohol and pork. The problem was, in making this statement I couldn't find a credible resource to back this up. Its true that Jinnah wasn't an observing Muslim, that much is there, but about the Quran, pork, alcohol there needs to be explicit reference. Rama's arrow 16:27, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yeah

I've seen dab's somewhat haughty comments too. Makes me feel I am a joker. We have to work towards removing such "ivory tower" behaviour from some of the members. ^Babub→Talk 13:33, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sudama

Hi Raj, have a look at your message to me please: [4]. Yes, nice work. I am keeping the page under my watchlist, and shall comment more at a future date, including addition of further comments, if possible. Have a nice time. --Bhadani 02:33, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

You are most welcome! Good morning. --Bhadani 00:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Yes, that "atheist" is behaving like a religious fanatic :)! ^Babub→Talk 02:35, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good morning

Hello Raj. Good morning, and have anice day. Have some apples too airlifted from Australia: [5]. link title

[edit] Re:

I am not too familiar with Jaydratha. I only know the "I will kill Jayadratha or swallow fire" line by Arjuna. Sorry.Bakaman _Bakatalk 00:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Dude, Shiva did grant Jayadratha's wish. He gave Jayadratha the power to keep all the Pandavas at bay (except Arjuna), which prevented the four from going to Abhimanyu's aid in the chakravyuha. Rama's arrow 00:57, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes it was temporary, but it was still a boon. Shiva loves his devotees equally - he does not ignore the tapasya of rakshasas, asuras or anybody, which is cool. Yet he finds ways to protect dharma and not allow anybody evil to triumph over good. Rama's arrow 01:02, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request

When I found a List of Muslim soldiers on wiki I thought us Hindus deserved a list for our loooong list of soldiers. Since you are the unofficial expert on Mahabharat/Ramayana can you add to the List of Hindu soldiers ?Bakaman _Bakatalk 00:59, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New lists

While browsing I noticed Muslim entertainers. I created Hindu entertainers (for Hindu celebs).Bakaman _Bakatalk 02:13, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Raja Yoga controversy

Dear Hinduism Project editors,

There is a controversy on the Hinduism regarding Raja Yoga. Please read the debate on the Hinduism discussion page. Your comments are requested on the Hinduism discussion page to help resolve the controversy. Thank you. HeBhagawan 14:50, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Greetings

Thank you for the good wishes. I hope that you have a fun-filled Diwali as well.Bakaman _Bakatalk 18:39, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Diwali's greetings and a very Happy New Year to you and your family! Jai Sri Rama! Rama's arrow 22:07, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your Diwali greetings. Gizza^{Chat ©} 04:28, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Karma and Reincarnation in Hinduism

Hi Raj, I responded to your comments on my talk page. Can we discuss there? Thanks. ॐ Priyanath 01:35, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reincarnation in Hinduism

Raj, If it means that much to you (five exclamation points!!!!!, 'strongly', and 'emphatically', and still no willingness to discuss the lack of reference for the Christian-sounding 'divine accountant'), I won't stand in your way. Civility and collaboration are more important to me than the need to prove a point. Hari Om Tat Sat. ॐ Priyanath 16:47, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Raj, Please don't take this as a threat or anything, but you should probably be aware of the 3 revert rule. Thanks.HeBhagawan 19:28, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Karma in Hinduism

Bhadani, People keep on insisting that Hinduism's view of karma is not different from Buddhism. I say a central role for Hindus is believing that God has a role in karma. Please contribute here at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Priyanath#God_as_Divine_Accountant

Thanks for your help!

Raj2004 19:58, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Let me see. I do not have much idea but I will try to understand the issue. Thanks. --Bhadani 21:07, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello Raj, it's obviously a somewhat complicated debate. You could quote Bhagavad Gita to promote the argument that Krishna is always aloof from the dealings of karma, and that it works instead based on the desires of the jivas:

• "There is no work that affects Me; nor do I aspire for the fruits of action. One who understands this truth about Me also does not become entangled in the fruitive reactions of work." B-Gita 4.14 From Prabhupadas purport "He creates and remains aloof from the creation, whereas the living entities are entangled in the fruitive results of material activities because of their propensity for lording it over material resources. The proprietor of an establishment is not responsible for the right and wrong activities of the workers, but the workers are themselves responsible. The living entities are engaged in their respective activities of sense gratification, and these activities are not ordained by the Lord."

However, ultimately from this perspective the world of karma is still not entirely independent from Krishna (or Bhagavan if prefered) because it only exists as one of his energies. "The Lord fulfills his desire as he deserves: Man proposes and God disposes. The individual is not, therefore, omnipotent in fulfilling his desires. The Lord, however, can fulfill all desires, and the Lord, being neutral to everyone, does not interfere with the desires of the minute independent living entities." from B-Gita 5.15 p

Then later in the Gita, Krishna goes on to explain:

• "I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him." B-Gita 9.29 and
• "But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on My transcendental form -- to them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they have."B-Gita 9.22

So at least this particular understanding of the Bhagavad Gita promotes a view wherein although the Supreme being may be aloof from geting personally involved in standard 'karma', but if someone is worshipping Him in devotion with their heart, then He personally becomes involved. But then it is no longer an action of karma as I'd understand it, as any action on behalf of Krishna is always beyond karma. It is 'causeless' from the material perspective because it has no mundane origin, being fully transcendental.

Then in the eighteenth chapter you have:

• "The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy" 18.61 - which could be used to summarise the argument. i.e the living jivas are on 'a machine' (yantra) within the world of samsara, but ultimately Krishna is the Supreme controller of this machine, so it's not entirely independent.

I hope this of some use in the debate, or the article. Best Wishes, ys, GourangaUK 12:04, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject_Hinduism/Shri for WP:HINDU users

I nominated a few users who I feel are deserving of the award.Bakaman _Bakatalk 00:15, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Note

Just a heads up: please help to keep an eye on Swadhyayee's edits. He has started to become active again after being away for a while. In the past I have spent a lot of time trying to dissuade him from making edits that clearly reduced the quality of the article becasue his edits were POV, factually dubious, uncited, and stylistically bad. I did not find him as easy to work with as you and Priyanath. He is very enthusiastic, and tends to make large-scale edits, but does not always have the same ideas about quality that some editors have.HeBhagawan 12:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Hey Raj, I wanted to add my thanks to you for the cooperative work on the Hinduism page. It's not easy to get three or more editors to each transcend their own strongly held understanding of a subject, and come up with a compromise that works for all, and improves an article. Hari Om. ॐ Priyanath 19:38, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kama & Artha are lower Purusharths is a wrong statement.

One could say for deploring Kama & Artha as lower Purusharths. It could have been said, just to make people move to Dharma & Moksha. Lot of Sanyasees try to deplore Kama & Artha, particularly Jain Sadhus try to create hate in the minds of people living family life.

Does one not need money to do one's religious duties or support Sanyasees or Brahmins or religious institutions? Krishna has said in Srimad Bhagawad Geeta that "Kama" is my "Vibhuti." In Hindu doctrines "Kama" is supported confining sexual pleasure with one's wedded spouse in the witness of fire (A form of God), Brahmin and society. Is it possible to conquer "Kama" by any average person? Vishwamitra also sliped. When Krishna declared "Kama" as Krishna's "Vibhuti" who are we to deplore "Kama"? Indian has n' number of Sanyasees. With due respect to Swami Bhaskaranandji, I say that anything said in a particular situation or a context should not be incorporated in an article like Wikipedia which shall remain on a public forum for a long long future. Hope everyone will see the damage being done to Hindusim and restrain from continuing with statements deploring 4 pursuits of life. Swadhyayee 14:40, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hinduism"

[edit] Thanks Raj2004.

Thanks Raj2004. I feel un-easyness to allow Hinduism being projected dimly but all my edits are removed on one or other pretext. It's not for personal gain or loss, it's for Hinduism, It's for Wikipedia being encyclopedia, I have to use my elbow.Swadhyayee 10:36, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oh Raj!

Brahma Sutra 2.1.34: "No partiality and cruelty (can be charged against God) because of (His) taking other factors into consideration."

  Sankara's commentary explains that God cannot be charged with partiality.....

Oh Raj! by setting law of Karma to maintain universal wheel moving, The God is not and can not be charged of cruelty or partiality.

The God has blessed living beings particularly humans with ability to think (rational thinking) & act, also provided tools of Karmendriyas thus the liberty to act rational or irrational is granted to living beings (particularly humans), and so imposed responsibilities for the fruits of actions upon human beings. By acceptance of Law of Karma having been set by The God, The God is not partial or cruel but just and fair.

Law of Karma is not only the cause of re-birth, there are other causes too like Avatars take birth for Law of Universal necessity. Law of Karma by Hirabhai Thakkar is a book. Did you have a chance to read it? I am not sure whether the same is available in English or not? Swadhyayee 10:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Could you right in block? and do you mean HeBhagawan is civil or incivil?

Could you right your "object" against Hinduism FAC request in bold letter?

Have you written that HeBhagawan is civil? Hope it's no error, my experience is different. Incivil + use of sock-puppetry to bombard incivility. Swadhyayee 13:02, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Raj, if you could tell me...

Raj, the source of reference don't lead me to text but to a book source page. Could I somehow go to ref. text from article or it just lead to book-seller or library? When I tried to search for certain ref. I got no results response.

Swadhyayee 12:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to be vague. In any article there is an intralink "1" supposed to provide citation (ref). When I click that link, I am lead to a book name. Sometime there are ISDN nos. If I click it, I am lead to a page giving some countries and libraries link. Does it mean that the citation or the ref. is not leading to actual citation of the text incorporated in article or am I making some mistake in checking the citation link?

Swadhyayee 15:30, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Raj, Will you pl. see talk page discussion of Hinduism and comment?

Raj, Will you pl. see talk page discussion of Hinduism and comment? (caste, Dalit etc). swadhyayee 16:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Just wanted to know that whether you saw the 2 paras I removed yesterday and probably HeBhagawan has reverted? See my comments in this context and pl. put your comments in clear words whether the same is required or advantageous or give a bad picture of Hinduism. swadhyayee 02:12, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I had removed this two paragraphs which HeBhagawan reverted without replying that whether the same were included after discussion.

Originally every caste was given equal importance. Later, as time passed, vested interests crept in. Caste, originally determined by the qualities and aptitudes of the individual, was made hereditary by self-interested people in positions of power and authority. As a result, some castes were made superior or "higher" and others inferior or "lower."Swami Bhaskarananda, Essentials of Hinduism at 25 (Viveka Press 1994). For a survey of other theories regarding the origins of caste, see Elenanor Zelliot, "Caste in Contemporary India," in Contemporary Hinduism, Robert Rinehart, Ed. (2004) ISBN 1-57607-905-8. The caste system gradually expanded to include several sub-castes (jati), along with a class of outcastes Dalit (outcaste)|Dalits) and the practice of social discrimination against the Unicode|Shūdra and Dalit classes. - - Today it is often debated whether the caste system is an integral part of the Hindu religion sanctioned by the scriptures or or is simply an outdated social custom. ref. name caste systemhttp://www.atributetohinduism.com/Caste_System.htm Caste System View of Scholars. The caste system is observed today especially among rural and uneducated Hindus; it is not observed as much in large cities, and the government of India has passed several laws attempting to remedy the problem of caste discrimination. Ref:See Swami Bhaskarananda, Essentials of Hinduism at 26 (Viveka Press 1994.

I feel that this is useless stuff, irrelevant and open to controversies and providing a tool to anti-Hindus.

Baka and Shaivasuj has commented that this is not required to be included in the article "Hinduism". My appeal falls on deaf ears.

There are lot of similar things where I have observed that HeBhagawan as a person get support and the article is not revolving around the central theme. This creates a mess but the contributors feel that they are doing excellent things.

I am against my desire forced to take the recourse of mediation and arbitrator. This spoils the name and relationship on the platform Wikipedia where you have to work daily. swadhyayee 11:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Raj, Could you tell me..

Raj, since you have worked on this article earlier, could you tell me whether the central point of the article "Hinduism" is religious or social or both? My stand point is that Hinduism should have axis of religious nature viz. it must revolve around "way of preaching" where as caste etc. not being a part of religion (Varnas are different from castes) should fall under "way of life" i.e. sociology subject. Castes etc. should be included in seperate article and not "Hinduism" (as the central point is religion/spiritual).

[edit] Saguna Brahman

Will it necessarily mean a personal God? Aupmanyav 17:20, 13 November 2006 (UTC)