Talk:Swami Vivekananda

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Contents 1 audio file of Swami Vivekananda's speech 2 libertarian socialist? 3 Biography 4 Removing Link 5 The Ayyavazhi connection 6 Rv of edits by 203.101.52.166 7 swami vivekananda and upliftment of women in the society

[edit] audio file of Swami Vivekananda's speech

hey, i am not aware of any recording of Swami Vivekananda being avaialble presently. Would somebody authenticate ? Ramashray 11:35, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It is good that Calvinkrishy removed the link! I recount one funny experience of a monk of the Ramakrishna Order regarding the 'Voice of Vivekananda'. He was presented with a CD supposed to contain the 'original' voice. The moment he heard it attentively he remembered that he had heard it before. It struck him that there was one cassette of N Vishwanathan who had read out some selected lectures of Swamiji. This was brought out during the Centenary commemoration of Chicago Parliament of Religions in 1993. He played the CD and the cassette simultaneously and lo! both had omission of one para from the lecture of 27th Sept, 1893. Not only that - in narrating the story of Frog in the well, Vishwanathan had expounded in a little dramatic way by modulating his voice, Swamiji's lecture also had the same style! Wherever Vishwanathan had pronouced the word 'often' as 'often, Swamiji in the CD also had the same pronounciation! More over before Swamiji's lecture begins, there is an announcement in female voice. The written down records of Parliament of Religions show that there was no female announcer at that time! It appeared to our monk that the new CD has been produced by increasing the speed of the lecture and adding 'noise' level so as to appear as ancient one. Vishwanathan's cassette is still available for sale from Udbodhan Office, Kolkata.Swami Vimokshananda 18:11, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry, you lost me. Does that mean that the audio clip was authentic but distorted? --Goethean 19:20, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

no Goethean, what Swami Vimokshananda ji is telling is, the voice is not of Swami Vivekananda; but may be the modified version of the reading of Swami Vivekananda's speech by N Vishwanathan. Ramashray 07:00, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] libertarian socialist?

Vivekananda was a libertarian socialist at heart? Please explain this? ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 01:04, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Vivekananda was not a libertarian socialist! --vineeth 13:41, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Biography

I felt this article about Vivekananda was incomplete without his biography. Hence I've added his biography. This presents well known facts about him and I wanted to keep it simple. I've also retained the previous material and moved them into relevent sections. Any comments, suggestions, criticisms, let's talk about it here. - Srini81 07:38, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removing Link

Link added by anonymous user is being removed,

• Vivekananda: The Handsome Duckling Debunking

Reasons being: The article quotes from book by Sil, already included in list of books

• Swami Vivekananda: A Reassessment by Narasingha P. Sil ISBN 0945636970

Also, visiting brothel(sometimes plural in the article while single incident is narrated) and consumption of alcohol are the only things mentioned in the article. But in 19th century Bengal, prostitutes were also great artists and connoisseur of art visited their places for the purpose of listening to music and watching dance. In fact, many of the drama artists were from class/caste of prostitutes, Shri Ramakrishna watched many of those dramas. Notion of brothel in India during those days is vastly different from that of western countries. And hindu spirituality does not believe in "eternal damnation" for finite 'immoral' acts such as assumed debauchery. Ramashray

Mr. Geoffrey has written the book after stripping his own mind. Utterly illogical depiction of events. He seems to have delibrately chosen to hide facts and analysis and chose certain lines to arrive at some pre meditated conclusion. He seem to have purposefully left the context out of discussion. Not worth wasting time to read or write about the book.

[edit] The Ayyavazhi connection

It is very much possible that Vivekananda visited the Swamithoppe temple, but was he influenced by Ayyavazhi relegion? There is not a single mention in his lectures, writings, conversations, letters... about Ayyavazhi or any such faith. Had there been any such significant influence, Vivekananda would have been grateful enough to mention about it in any of his letters or conversations if not in his lectures. Advaita has been around in India for thousands of years and Vivekananda had learnt it well before visiting Kanyakumari. Also he had always maintained that Ramakrishna was his only Guru. Google gives two results for Advaita Philosophy of Brahmashri Chattampi Swamikal and that too this very article and a page about Ayyavazhi in wikipedia! And who is/was Dr. Poulose? Proper evidence should be provided before these arguments can be accepted. Wearing turban was a common custom those days in India, more so in north India than the south. Information about his wearing turban only after visiting Kanyakumari in the link provided may not be genuine. Small thing it may be, but truth should prevail even about such simple issues. - Srini81 14:51, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Sri, The fact that Vivekananda only after visiting swamithoppe, wear head gear is a major claim among some of Ayyavazhi, particularly among old people.The old people says that their father had seen Vivekananda in Swamithoppe.In that time, during the late 19th century wearing head gear is a matter of pride and low castes were not alowed to wear that.But in Ayyavazhi Only with that one will be allowed in side the worship centers.It was ment by Vaikundar to propose that all people were kings to rule. I think that this fact is closely related to Vivekananda's way, Advaita. On the other hand on my point of view, in this matter of Vivekananda's head gear the reason preasented by Vedantha society is too hard to digest.In one of their book I read that he first worn it,by a suggestion from the king of Khetri, during a desert journey, and from that he found it more comfort and thereby continued.You might have heared about Vivekananda. Though he was a saint undoubtfully he was a man of extra-ordinary thought. And all my suggestion is such a skilled man dosn't do any thing without reason.

Also the main teaching of Vivekananda is to bring Advaita in practice or Practical Advaita. In Ayyavazhi the practice of wearing headgear, the worship in front of mirror are seeming match to practical Advaita. Then the philosophy of Ayyavazhi is mostly monistic which was similar to Advaita. Then the date which was presented on which Vivekananda visited Kanyakumari (24th December, Tamil month 'Margazhi- 9, saturday.)is the 16th day of the 'seventeen day festival', Thiru Edu Vasippu in Swamthoppe.(Thiru Edu Vasippu is the festival of melodiouse reading of Akilattirattu Ammanai and completing). Then with the headgear he went to Suchindrum Temple. There he was asked to remove the head gear. When he refused he was not allowed to enter the temple. So Vivekananda called Kerala, (This area is then the part of Travancore,Kerala) as 'tent of mads'. This is a proof that when Vivekananda leaves Kanyakumari he had gear in his head. Then the opinion of Vivekananda is, it is from a thought all the uiverse originated. In Akilam several times the same thing repeated that by 'destroying the thought' all will become one. Also, I've read many speeches of Vivekananda and found, many concepts of him revolves around the thoughts of Akilam, especially the concept of origin of time and place. All these created a deep thought in my mind that Vivekananda must be influenced with Ayyavazhi.

Besides all these few days before I found the book of Dr.C.Poulose 'Advaita Philosophy of Brahmasri Chattampi Swamikal', about Ayya Vaikundar. He also noted that Narayana Guru, Sri Nilakanta Tirthapada and Tirthapada Paramahamasa were all the disciples of Atmananda Swamikal. But none of them were mentioned in Akilattirattu.

My suggestion is, the central theme the 'Practical Advaita'. I think in no other parts of India this is practiced. Though it was theoritical in advaita not practiced sociologically. But in Ayyavazhi, it was brought sociologically as religious custom. Then there is another practice in Ayyavazhi, that calling every one using the term 'Ayya'. For example,If any one visits one's house he will be welcomed as "Ayya please come, be seated." (This was to symbolise that 'God is all' or 'God in all'.) Though it (God in all)was very much theoritical in Hinduism, in Ayyavazhi it was practicalized. You might have known that, to bring advaita in practical is the major call of Vivekananda, especially on western speeches.

Then the head gear.Even though the practice of wearing head gear is prevalant in many other parts, that was not allowed or practiced in temples. Any one who want to enter the temples he needs wear a turban in his hip. He will not be allowed inside a temple with a turban in his head. But in Ayyavazhi the thing is reverse. Only with a turbun one will be allowed inside the Pathis and Nizhal Thangals. In the case of Vivekananda, if it was weared on following the tradition of those days he must have removed on entering the temple, and in Suchindrum they may not have stopped him and there may not have chances for him to call the land as 'Tent of mads'.

Then you asked that if Vivekananda was influenced by Ayyavazhi why he had not noted it in any speeches, letters etc. You might have known that the main claim of Vivekananda is, 'the religion of Hinduism is a set of beliefs and it was formulated by hundreds of greats and not like other religions, focus to a single person.'He hates the formation of new religions inside it. For example, for him Buddhism and Jainism were all sections of Vedanta. On visiting Swamithope he must have viewed Ayyavazhi on the background of Hinduism and not as an autonomous. Also the religious text of Ayyavazhi was given printed form only in 1939. So there is no chance to Vivekananda to view the source behind the Ayyavazhi and Swamithoppe, which place it as an independent one. He just view it as an offshoot of Hinduism. I think that if Vivekananda might have chances to view the source Akilattirattu Ammanai he won't consider Ayyavazhi as a section of Vedanta. Because it has it's own mythology, indifferent to Hinduism.

Then in the matter of Chinmudra I just placed the qoute from the book of Dr.Poulose. -வைகுண்ட ராஜா

I don't deny the possibility of Vivekananda visiting the Ayyavazhi temple but only doubt what you call it's 'influence' on him. People who believe this may be sincere in their belief, but sincere belief doesn't necessarily mean truth. It may well be a legend, which in due course of time came to be a strong belief among the followers of this faith. There should be clear distinction between legend, mythology and history. I don't want to get into useless arguments here, but take some liberty in editing this portion of text in the article, so that it is acceptable to all. The info provided by Polouse and his book is not convincing. Details like year of publishing of the book, publisher, or atleast the ISBN should be provided if at all this book is to be taken seriously. And unverified information from random websites cannot be a reference to contest popular belief. - Srini81 06:06, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Raja didn't find the ISBN. But here's the publisher's details:

Ayyavaikunta Nather Sidhasrama,

Marutvamalai,

Vaikundapathi,

Pottayadi - p.o,

Kanyakumari District,

Tamil Nadu.

The Distributors,

Aswathy Books,

Viraly,

Uchakkada - p.o,

Thiruvananthapuram - 695506,

Phone. 0471-211469.

We don't know if Vivekananda was or wasn't influenced by Ayyavazhi. It is one theory suggested by some that he was.

Raj2004 10:04, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

I think we have more than enough proof that Dr. Poulose, and a number of Ayyavazhi adherants feel this way. If there is anyone who officially disputes their claim, he should also be cited. NPOV is the citing of verifiable POV, and I think it is clear, right or wrong, that this is a belief held and thus worth mentioning. Sam Spade 13:34, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't dispute the mentioning of beliefs held by Ayyavazhi people about Vivekananda. I only doubt the authenticity of information provided by Polouse, as User:Vaikunda Raja himself says that info in the book is not mentioned anywhere in Akilathirattu. Nevertheless, it deserves a mention in the article. Is it possible to provide the year the book was first published, as it would be interesting to know whether Polouse wrote it during the times of Vivekananda or if it is a recent book. - srin 04:13, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

No, The book was published only in July 2002. I am not here to withstand backing the claim of some Ayyavazhi followers with this matter. I rise this issue here, only because my doubt about his influence, mathches the contents of the book of Dr.Poulose. I was taking effort to approach him for references, Thank You. - வைகுண்ட & ராஜா

I dont think it merits inclusion, because many would argue Ayyavazhi is a sect of Hinduism (no offense to anyone, Buddhism , Jainism and Sikhism figure in the same way). If its true it needs to backed up with quite a few sources.00:48, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rv of edits by 203.101.52.166

The edits replaced 'Died' with 'samadhi' which resulted in the template not being functional - so had to fix it. Have placed the reasoning on the user's talk page too. Shushruth 05:40, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Good! But there is a significant difference between mere samadhi and mahasamadhi. Generally the death of a purna jnani is not considered death because it refers to the mere physical body. A knower of Atman merges himself with Atman which is what called mahasamadhi and in that process leaves the body, which we ordinary mortals think death. However the term Died in the infobox is applicable universally throughout the wikipedia biography pages and hence it is better to retain the term. 59.94.73.42 14:16, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] swami vivekananda and upliftment of women in the society

just wanted to know whether swami vivekananda had to do something with the upliftment of women...anyone knows the answer....?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/ 125.23.58.135| 125.23.58.135]] ([[User talk: 125.23.58.135|talk]]) date.

See Sister Nivedita -RegardsBharatveer 16:03, 9 October 2006 (UTC)