Talk:Influenza pandemic
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[edit] Treatments
Think there would be a way to fit this in?:
During the influenza pandemic of 1917, [R.K.] Smith reported that osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT) (see Lymphatic pump) decreased the mortality rate from 5% to 0.25% among 100,000 patients.(Knott 2005)
- Knott, E.M.,Tune J.D., Stoll S.T, et al, Increased Lymphatic Flow in the Thoracic Duct During Manipulative Intervention. Journal of the American Osteopathic Association: Vol. 105, No. 10, October 2005, pp. 447-456.[1]
gallen01 02:49, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
"People try every remedy they can think of." is in the article. It could be expanded to list "every remedy" which would include prayer, vitamins, exersize, voodoo, and OMT. All of which have someone somewhere swearing they work with statistics to back them up. In short, it really doesn't fit in here. WAS 4.250 21:44, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
- Well, I might agree with your argument that it doesnt' directly fit - which is why I didn't just add it to begin with. It doesn't seem productive however, do dismiss research as vitamins (which reminds me of the paid-tv ads) and voodoo. The article cited, doesn't claim that it was a 'remedy', it claimed that OMT increased lymph flow, which possibly has a positive immune effect, which might help fight secondary infections. It is a fact that the lymphatic system is part of the immune system. It's not a fact that voodoo effects anything at all. Apples and oranges.
- Given the article's description of a pandemic: "there not enough doctors, hospital rooms, or medical supplies for the living", it begs the question - so what out of "every remedy" do people actually try? And do all of these treatments have the same level of effectiveness? By the definition of pandemic, laymen would be the ones engaging in self-treatment, rather than MD's, so I do happen to think that simple, medically backed treatments (which are not necessarily remedies or cures) do happen to be pertinent information. Maybe for a flu treatments article? (heck - there is a bloodletting article after all...) gallen01 03:37, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
You seem to agree that it "doesn't directly fit". You say "It doesn't seem productive however, do dismiss research as vitamins." I take 400 IU of vitamin E and 500 mg of vitamin C and a regular multi-vitamin daily. You say "The article cited, doesn't claim that it was a 'remedy', it claimed that OMT increased lymph flow, which possibly has a positive immune effect, which might help fight secondary infections. It is a fact that the lymphatic system is part of the immune system." Yes, that's why we agree it doesn't belong in THIS article. You say "It's not a fact that voodoo effects anything at all." I disagree. Part of voodoo has to do with actual ingestion of medically affecting substances. Part of voodo has to do with the effects of suggestion. You say "Given the article's description of a pandemic: "there not enough doctors, hospital rooms, or medical supplies for the living", it begs the question - so what out of "every remedy" do people actually try?" What part of "every" don't you get? You say : "And do all of these treatments have the same level of effectiveness?" NOW you are talking my language! Provide an unbiased (in wikipedia-talk thats NPOV) source that gives evidence OMT is as effective as hand washing (for example) in a flu pandemic and OMT deserves to be included. You say "Maybe for a flu treatments article? (heck - there is a bloodletting article after all...)" and I say if there isn't one, start one. Good luck to you and happy holidays. WAS 4.250 04:01, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] yeah
i am kind of wondering why you think 'preslaughtered prepackaged food' in some kind of industrialized production facility is necessarily safer.
none of that crap stopped Mad Cow Disease from happening, in fact without modern 'superior' farming methods, Mad Cow Disease would not exist.
if you want safety, get safety.
if you want safety, saying 'get industrialization' is rather stupid, because then you will just have a bunch of unsafe industrialization.
[edit] Pandemic or propaganda?
http://www.bangladesh-web.com/news/view.php?hidDate=2005-11-11&hidType=HIG&hidRecord=0000000000000000070510 shouldnt this be mentioned? --Whywhywhy 12:33, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
The commentary you refer to is nothing more than a biased scare piece filled with half-facts and lies about subjects other than H5N1 to justify believing nothing he reads in the media about H5N1. It contains NO ACTUAL DATA ABOUT H5N1 TO SUPPORT HIS POSITION. Please read the nonmedia references in H5N1 and make up your own mind. The first paragraph references to a scientist's analysis of the latest mutations of H5N1 are especially revealing. WAS 4.250 15:51, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
- The author of the article you cite does little more than quote himself. He also says that SARS and AIDS were of man-made origin [2]. I believe in the power of big business, and I am skeptical of our focus on Tamiflu as a way of dealing with a coming pandemic, but the "global military-medical-petrochemical-pharmaceutical cartel" is a little overdone. Just a little... ;-) Pigkeeper 05:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Moved from article
[edit] Canada
An August 2005 report by a Canadian investment firm warned of complacency in the face of a possible pandemic.[3] BMO Nesbitt Burns compared a possible future pandemic to the 1918 flu pandemic and the 2003 SARS epidemic in Toronto, Hong Kong, and China:
SARS — which was nowhere near as dangerous as a lethal flu — should have been a lesson about our vulnerability to new infectious viruses and the lack of resources in health care systems and the business community to cope with epidemics. Regrettably, the world relapsed quickly into complacency, and is almost as collectively unprepared now as it was when a new kind of flu ravaged Spain in 1918.
The authors added that economic globalization has produced certain vulnerabilities. Travel between countries would increase the spread of the H5N1 virus and supply chains would be disrupted by a pandemic. The report also cautioned against excessive faith in a recently announced vaccine developed by Sanofi-Pasteur, and also noted that a key ingredient of the currently available anti-viral agent Tamiflu comes from China, a source that could be disrupted if that country saw a human outbreak of H5N1.
[edit] Comments
The above does not go where it was. Whether all of it or some of it or none of it shoud go into the article somewhere else under a different title, I have no current opinion. WAS 4.250 19:16, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Copyright
I'm going to drastically re-write the section about pandemic strategies, because it reads like it was copied almost exactly from a website, and while since it's a government website they probably won't mind, I think it could be put differently. Watch this space...:) XYaAsehShalomX 19:48, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] What about Wikipedia:Medical_disclaimer
What about Wikipedia:Medical_disclaimer? — mark ✎ 19:06, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
- What about it? We wouldn't need a disclaimer if we didn't have medical data. WAS 4.250 19:50, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
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- Ah, thus. It just struck me that there seems to be a lot of advice in this article, while I thought Wikipedia wasn't meant to give advice (only to report facts). Although I won't dispute that it's useful now that people read a lot about this in the news, it also feels a bit like a slippery slope; it's not really encyclopedic, is it? — mark ✎ 15:31, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
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- LOL. Wikipedia, the continually updated over-million-article online resource is giving the word "encyclopedia" a whole new meaning. Check out Boom Town (Doctor Who) and tell me again if the content in this article is less important to be available to information seekers. Cheers, and welcome to the brave new world of encyclo-everything-we-can-verify! (Be sure not to miss the 18 notes at the end which include the must be included information that "Two newspapers are featured in the episode: the Cardiff Gazette and The Western Mail. While the former is fictitious, the latter is a real publication.".) WAS 4.250 11:38, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Overdone?
Does anyone think that "Advice in Case of Pandemic" sounds a little on the alarmist side? I mean, none of the last two pandemics were anything like that crazy (and before anyone brings up 1918, there is no way to compare today's conditions with 1918). -unsigned
The advise is from official sources - our governments. Who in turn, got the advise fro the world's top expets.I'm serious here. I've seen the documents on the web at official web sites. H5N1 is acting UNIQUELY SCARY. Governments are spending huge sums to not only try to prevent this thing from occuring, but also to do everything they can to mitigate it. The threat is very real. The pandemic is not real - yet. WAS 4.250 18:35, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't think the advice section is that bad but I do think that the "nature of a pandemic" section was a little on the alarmist side, so I edited it - although you're welcome to add some more stuff if you want. XYaAsehShalomX
Well done, XYaAsehShalomX, well done. Thanks for helping. WAS 4.250 16:53, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Timeline
A timeline would be nice, from the day that crucial mutation took place in a cat, bird or whatever. How far into it would the announcement come that "it's out now."? How much longer to get around the world? When will deaths peak, and how long after that will the virus generally dissapear from the human population? I know none of these are fast-and-hard numbers, but if you can give me a ballpark range, that'd be great. Thanks.--74.227.160.88 21:02, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
- Timeline data on Avian flu and Human flu can be found at our article on the causative agent species called Influenza A virus. WAS 4.250 16:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
- Timeline data on the global spread of the strain that is the current pandemic concern (called Asian lineage HPAI A(H5N1) can be found at Global spread of H5N1. WAS 4.250 16:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
- Timeline data on creation of a flu vaccine for H5N1 can be found at H5N1 clinical trials.WAS 4.250 16:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
- How far into it would the announcement come that "it's out now."? A highly pathogenic strain of H5N1 caused flu outbreaks with significant spread to numerous farms, resulting in great economic losses in 1959 in Scotland. The randomized, double-blinded, placebo-controlled, staged, dose-ranging, Phase I/II study to evaluate the safety, reactogenicity, and immunogenicity of 2 doses of an IM inactivated influenza A/H5N1 vaccine in healthy children, aged 2 through 9 years ends February 2007. See the above articles on details for events between 1959 and 2007. It has already been announced that "it's out now". See this article for its data on pandemic stages. WAS 4.250 16:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
- How much longer to get around the world? It will be endemic in birds in every continent by the end of 2007, but maybe earlier. WAS 4.250 16:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
- When will deaths peak? No has even the beginnings of an idea on how to answer this, which is one reason the most informed are the most scared. This virus strain is acting different from every other known flu virus ever. WAS 4.250 16:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
- How long after that will the virus generally dissapear from the human population?No has even the beginnings of an idea on how to answer this, which is one reason the most informed are the most scared. This virus strain is acting different from every other known flu virus ever. WAS 4.250 16:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] "Strategies for individuals in a pandemic" How-To status
Delirium is right. The "Strategies for individuals in a pandemic" is a HowTo. It needs to be reworded. Better yet, it should be moved to its own article. This article is already too long. --Mperry 17:42, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- It is important that the information be available to the people. Change anything you like; except do not diminish our influence on helping people. WAS 4.250 20:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
