User talk:Almaqdisi

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Hello Almaqdisi! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. If you decide that you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some recommended guidelines to facilitate your involvement. Happy Editing! —Khoikhoi 02:04, 28 September 2006 (UTC) Getting Started Wikipedia Tutorial How to edit a page The five pillars of Wikipedia Manual of Style Be bold in editing How to write a great article WikiProjects Getting your info out there Cite your sources Neutral Point of View Point of View Verifiability Uploading images Image use policy Getting more Wikipedia rules Policy Library Getting Help New contributors' help page Where to ask a question Help Desk Frequently Asked Questions Getting along Wikiquette Civility Sign your posts Wikipedians Conflict resolution Getting technical Cleaning up vandalism Pages needing attention Peer review Utilities Village pump

[edit] Your message

Hi, I'm sorry I haven't been very active of late. Could you please clarify for me where the problem with Dome of the Rock and other articles lie? I don't think I can follow everything on the talk pages so any specific guidance from you would be appreciated. Thanks! Ramallite ^(talk) 18:59, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Help in al-Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock

I am available to assist you. Siddiqui 04:33, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Minor edits

Hi, I happened to notice that you have been marking all of your edits as "minor". I suspect you are just being "modest", but please see Help:Minor edit for when to check this box. Take care, Elizmr 19:28, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Whoops, I marked the "minor edit" box by mistake when I made the above edit to your talk page! Apologies, Elizmr 19:30, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Elizmr, I will make sure I am more careful with this. Sometimes after I upload some text, I forget to add a link or something. I did not know that later adding a link is not considered a minor edit. I appologise for my ignorance reagrding this. Thanks for providing me with this Help:Minor edit. Regards Almaqdisi 19:33, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Al-Asqa Mosque page

I didn't understand your "help" note on the "3rd holiest" deletion talk page. What are you objecting to? Elizmr 20:15, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your concern Elzimr. I am having difficutlies with adding relevant info to that page. Amoruso keeps reverting for no good reason. He disputes several things. For example, he does not want to believe that the Arabic term al-Masjid al-Aqsa from which the english al-Aqsa Mosque is derived, denotes the whole area of the noble sanctuary. I added citations that explain when these terms started to be used and what is denoted by each etc, but he insists that this is not neutral. Furthermore, he removes informaiton that al-Aqsa mosque compound's capacity is hundreds of thousands muslims. Instead he want only to use the number 5000 only to marginalize the place! Finally, he disproves the edits I made to the Dome of the Rock which is now blocked for this reason. There I have added the construction letter regarding the Dome in which it mentions that the muslim calpih commissioned the Dome as a mosque for muslims. Instead he insists this is not neutral and that the word mosque should be replaced with the word shrine arguing that the Dome was built by Jews and for Jews!

I cannot continue reverting his edits on these pages alone and this is why I need help from other people of knowledge. Certainly regarding this particular topic, he has agenda and is only interested in disputes and not authentic resources and is just not letting any information from Islamic accounts to stay there. This is why I asked the help and assistance from other users regarding this issue. I understand that many users may not be able to contribute conveniently to this article with legitimate resources, but I can do that and I have access to thousands of Academic Journals and Books and magazines. He argues that I may only have such edits on Arabic WikiPedia! I do not see why such information that is available in the Arabic language should not be available also in english, particularly given the fact that many of the old Arabic texts themselves have been recently translated to English and can also be conveniently cited and verified by english speakers. Have a good day. Almaqdisi 08:55, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Sometimes if the language is made more precise to convey a pov more exactly then the objections will go away but it doesn't sound like this is that kind of a case. Would it make sense to give two numbers of the occupancy with cites for each and say the capacity is disputed with some claiming x and some claiming y? Or two sets of sources and say that one set is the codified muslim source and the other is whatever it is and let both stand? It will be clear to Muslims reading that they should trust the Muslim source more, and others can get the range of what's out there and make their own conclusions. Is the problem with who built the dome about the site of the Jewish temples or is it something else? Anyway, I think you could probably reach a version that would be ok with both of you. Elizmr 23:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I concur with Elizmer's proposal here for a plurality of (reliable) sources as a way of mitigating this issue. Hang in there Almaqdisi, don't lose your cool. --Amerique ^dialectics 00:25, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Amerique, and Dear Elzimr. Thank you both for your remarks. Indeed I am always sticking to reliable sources and authentic citations. The problem with al-Aqsa Mosque page and with the Dome of the Rock page is that Amoruso and Chesdovi do not want to understand. This is really the whole issue. Even if you bring what ever sources like I am doing at al-Aqsa Mosque page, they are just not interested to understand, and only love to revert edits that take really time to organise. It is not becoming fun and something should should be done about it. Elzimr, this is what Amoruso believes [1]. Also, have a look at his this reverted edits of him [2], [3], [4]. For this reason, Amoruso keeps removing any information that explains what is al-Aqsa mosque, and that the whole Noble Sanctuary is a prayer site, and that the Dome of the Rock is a muslims house of worhsip, etc... I do not think there is a possibility at all for neutrality here with just wrong information. You cannot be neutral with such simply false information. It is a pitty that this is just proving why CNN and BBC would not consider Wikipeda as a reliable source for their broadcast. Almaqdisi 02:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I understand what it is like to have hard work undone and dismissed and can understand your frustration at that. The good thing about Wikipedia is that the work is still there in a previous version so don't despair. I also know that is is kind of bizarre to look at a page on a topic you know everything about and see that the people editing the page don't know much and there are inaccuracies there. I have looked at pages in my professional field and have had that experience. At the same time when I've looked at those pages I have been struck by how hard the editors are trying and how much they care about editing the article and the topic. This makes me feel more fondly towards what they have done even though they have gotten some of it wrong. Anyway, I don't know much about the history of the dome of the rock, but will look at the link you sent which shows Amoruso's POV. Maybe there is a way to present all of the material in a way that you and the others will be able to accept. Maybe not. Elizmr 03:22, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello Almaqdisi,

What do you think of the possibility of pursuing further discussion between all parties concerned with the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa articles through WP:Mediation? I can fill out the request form if all parties involved agree to it. Best,--Amerique ^dialectics 05:36, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I am not going to pursue trying to fix the Al-Aqsa thing further. Sorry. One of your co-religionists has decided to call me an "infidel" for my troubles. From a muslim to a jew I find this rude; I thought we were all people of the book with mutual respect between us. Thanks for being civil about all this. Elizmr 01:22, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

You seem determined to take offense for no reason - not only is infidel a perfectly proper word for non-Muslims, it's also used by the Catholic Church for some similar purpose (as I proved to somebody, I think it was you).

And you have no evidence whatsoever that I'm a Muslim, so your attempt to embarrass another Muslim by calling him "your co-relgionist" looks very much like an attempt to shut down a discussion where it's you that's been found intolerant and ill-informed.

All of which would be much more understandable, were it not that I earlier objected (strongly) to what appeared to be an attempt to inveigle me into a discussion with serious anti-semitic overtones.

PalestineRemembered 23:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I am fairly sure that the Catholic church does not use this word currently, although they certainly did historically. Most educated people currently realize that we live in a multicultural society and don't go around saying deliberately insulting stuff to people who are different from them in an inciting way. And with all due respect, I am not taking offense "for no reason". I have honestly said that I consider calling someone an "infidel "(ie--someone of no faith) is rude and have asked for an apology. I don't think it would be productive to reply to any of your points because it is clear to me that there is no hope for a reasonable dialog, but your whole reply above is very attacking--you accuse me of trying to get you into racist arguments, trying to embarass a Muslim, calling me intolerant, calling me ill-informed. Elizmr 00:44, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

None of this fuss could possibly contribute to the discussion on Third holiest site in Islam.

I played no part in editting this article. My offence is stating my opinion with reasons that the article is unfit to be in the encyclopedia (and would be unfit under almost any circumstances). It seems I'm with the majority of WP editors in this case. I hate to think what would happen if I ever tried to express a minority opinion.

PalestineRemembered 16:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Not really important who said this, I just wanted to let you know I was not going to look at this anymore because I had promised to do it a few days ago. I think the page will be deleted in all likelihood. I still against deleting because I think the deletion goes against core Wikipedia principles and feel we should have tried to get to a NPOV version that everyone could be comfortable with (including changing the provactive title), but appreciate the feelings of the side for deletion as well. Take care, Elizmr 00:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Dear User_talk:Almaqdisi. I cannot take a discussion about the use of the word "infidel" very seriously. The fuss made looks exactly like an attempt to make the discussion personal in order not to discuss the point I'd raised (Israel's gradual destruction of the Al-Aqsa mosque). It's not just an attempt to slur me, it's an attempt to re-define Arabic as a language of insults. The next step is to say "We've made calling someone a Muslim an insult, therefore we're going to bar you from using that word too". When I see Political Correctness of this kind being injected, I assume that the points I'm making are excellent, and the accuser knows it.

Now, I may have been wrong to use the word "infidel", but there isn't another I could have used, and my quick search of google suggests the word is sometimes used as insult, but more often is not. I will, however bear your words in mind and not use this particular word again.

(You will have noted the same people are making generalisations about the "The Jews" and demanding that I join that discussion. They're attempting to trick me into making some kind of similar racist generalisation, in order they can smear me as anti-semitic. This silly spat over the meaning of "infidel" comes from the same tool-box, the one labelled "ways to silence critics of Israel". But it comes from a different drawer, the one labelled "easy ways to make Arabic speakers feel bad and tie them in knots").

PalestineRemembered 16:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Almaqdisi and others have told you an alternate term you could be using instead of "infidel". Please try to assume good faith and stop trolling on Wikipedia. Elizmr 00:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Third holiest site in Islam

Could you put your comments on the new lead on this page? I wrote it to respond to the complaints you made on the AFD talk page and I think it does repond to some of them (except for the title). What do you think? Elizmr 13:42, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I have added a comment on the discussion board of the locked AfD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_deletion/Third_holiest_site_in_Islam_%28second_nomination%29 Aboosh 00:02, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Salam

I hope that you are Muslim. I am very impress from you comments on Third holiest site in Islam. If you need my help then please let me know. I usually do not have enough time but I will try. --- ابراهيم 14:42, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

You are welcome. I am also interested in emailing you for fast contact. So activate your email address. Have you seen this hadith.

[Sahih Bukhari: Volume 3, Book 29, Number 87]

Narrated Qaza'a, the slave of Ziyad: Abu Said (Radi Allah Anhu) who participated in twelve Ghazawat with the Prophet (sal-allahu- alleihi-wasallam ) said, I heard four things from Allah's Apostle (sal-allahu- alleihi-wasallam ) (or I narrate them from the Prophet ) which won my admiration and appreciation. They are:

1. No lady should travel without her husband or without a Dhu-Mahram for a two-days' journey.

2. No fasting is permissible on two days of 'Id-al-Fitr, and 'Id-al-Adha.

3. No prayer (may be offered) after two prayers: after the 'Asr prayer till the sun set and after the morning prayer till the sun rises.

4. Not to travel (for visiting) except for three mosques: Masjid-al-Haram (in Mecca), my Mosque (in Medina), and Masjid-al-Aqsa (in Jerusalem). --- ابراهيم 17:04, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Email

I'd like to send an email to you, why don't you set up an email address for your account? thestick 14:54, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Salaam! Thank you for contacting, I myself is too much burdened with my studies, I just saw a mess on Al-Aqsa Mosque, so I cleaned it, but definitely there is a lot to do. I wish I could help you, I have got headache from previous articles especially, Muhammad, Islam and slavery, and The relation between Islam and Science, and I think I'll wait for sometime before taking some pain more. But best of luck. Cheers and Allah Hafiz. TruthSpreader^Talk 10:00, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Salaam Almaqdisi! It is against WP:LEAD to put all this information in Lead section. Secondly, all these verses are differently interpreted by different scholars. We can't present in this article as these verses are related to Isra and Miraj by all scholars. Thirdly, we don't need to put arabic, as it is not arabic encyclopedia, fourthly, I also made some changes to the article, which are also being reverted. I hope that you'll understand. Cheers! TruthSpreader^Talk 02:46, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I've pondered over this issue of dream and physical journey, but the hadith in Bukhari also gives this impression very clearly as it uses word "wake" suddenly when prophet Muhammad was talking with prophet Moses. TruthSpreader^Talk 03:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

You are right, I checked Mawdudi's tafsir:[5] and he also takes the same meaning as yours. Cheers! TruthSpreader^Talk 04:04, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I've now added the verse from Surah Najm as well with a reference. TruthSpreader^Talk 04:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

You are right that our scholars have been taking this position that it was a physical journey but there is little or no strong evidence to show that Sahaba believed it this way as well. The general argument is that why the prophet would be ridiculed when he told about this journey. The people who believe that it was a dream say that it was a very important revelation from the God which told Muslims that now Juresalem is now going to be given to Muslims, and as the prophet lead the prayer in front of all the previous prophets, that showed that Muslims will rule this world. And this claim was ridiculed by the opponents of the prophet. The classical example of this understanding comes from Umar (ra). He believed in this so strongly that he didn't even care to bring army with him, but rather went alone with his servant to take the control of the city of Juraselum. And as the Qur'an promissed, the city fell into his hand.

I found this explanation a lot more closer to Quranic verses and hadith literature and thus more logical. But I still respect your opinion. TruthSpreader^Talk 07:56, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I've added the opinion of Mawdudi on dream/physical journey. Cheers! TruthSpreader^Talk 00:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Compound article

Should be in the Temple Mount article as it treats the same place. You should have a muslim perspective section there. if that section gets too long it can also be created as a seperate article probably called Muslim beliefs concerning the Temple Mount probably. That's my opinion. Amoruso 07:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I think you should decide yourself what the word means first... like mentioned on that page if it really referrs to all the compound then you need to come to terms with who built the compound. If it referrs to something spiritual and not specific then indeed I think the mosque in the south/ the shrine of the dome marks that spot according to islamic law which will make sense. Amoruso 07:24, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

There is clearly a disagreement here. Suggest applying the WP:NPOV policy and allowing both views to appear simultaneously using neutral language. Elizmr 16:18, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sockpuppet thing

Hi Almaqdisi, I wanted to let you know that the sockpuppet thing has finally been checked by an Admin. You are using a different IP address from one of the suspected sockpuppets and the same IP address as the other. I see by your userboxes that you share your wireless account with your neighbors, so this might be the innocent explanation. I going to assume good faith on this. I hope you are having a good Muslim Sabbath (not sure if that is the right term), take care, Elizmr 16:16, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi Almaqdisi

If you post me at andy.dyer9@tiscali.co.uk I'll get the message.

[edit] Hadith

Yeah Truthspreader going to other articles and taking out the hadith he doesnt like like the ones where Muhammad say kill all geckos.

I agree Hadith can be used. SHOULD be used youre right theyre very important source. But not with coming our own original interpretations. If Hadith say, 'Narrate Aisha: Prophet told me journey was physical journey not dream.' then we can say Hadith say that. Original research when were saying it 'suggest' something. That makes sense? Policy say we can use the primary sources BUT have to be really careful with them in this way.Opiner 06:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Almaqdisi. Im mainly angry at the Truthspreader he was going around saying using Hadith is original research even if we only repeat exactly what it say. Saying we need secondary source in all cases THEN I look through his contributing and see that! Not your fault at all!

For when we dont know if hadith reliable or not. And lets be honest we usually dont. Even the best Islamic scholars disagree on very many of these. In this case where we dont know we should be careful and say 'According the the hadith of Sahih Muslim' and tell exactly what it say. Thats a fair and honest using of the primary source. My opinion.Opiner 07:08, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

You are absolutely correct. Please see also your talk page. Almaqdisi ^{talk to me} 07:17, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay maybe you can help. From translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 26 chapter thirty five called Desirability of Killing a Gecko. [6] All of them say Muhammad kill the gecko so I wrote 'According to the hadith of Sahih Muslim, Muhammad commanded to kill geckos' and gave the link. Where you finding the databases? That sounds really useful.Opiner 07:34, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You helped choose Islam as this week's WP:AID winner

Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive. This week Islam was selected to be improved to featured article status. Hope you can help.

Dev920(Mind voting here?) 15:24, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Third holiest and points

Hello, Almaqdisi. I understand you may be frustrated with the way some articles are being edited. I just had one of the articles I wrote deleted, so I can understand frustration. However, it helps to keep Wikipedia:Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point in mind. The talk pages of the article is where the merits of the individual sources can be discussed, and I, among many other editors, will be happy to engage in constructive dialogue with you there. Thanks! -- Avi 05:35, 14 November 2006 (UTC)