Talk:Vile Vortices

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Contents 1 NPOV 2 "Civilisations" 3 Is this even notable? 4 Refutation by Paul Begg

[edit] NPOV

This article IMHO is not written from a NPOV. From what I can gather, Vile Vortices are not proven to exist rather they are conjecture. The article also contains many weasel words for example,

"was first advanced by _noted_ naturalist and author Ivan T. Sanderson."

"As with the Bermuda Triangle _academics dismiss_ the Vile Vortices and any associated New Age or esoteric phenomena as pseudoscience."

Further, all the external links point to sites that support the existance of Vile Vortices. I would like to see some links to people trying to debunk the concept. Journeyman 06:06, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Try Ciscop, they "debunk" everything. I once had contact with a Ciscop man once, he "debunked" the fact that he was alive and a human being. Martial Law 05:08, 13 April 2006 (UTC) :)

That is what I call skepticisim. Martial Law 05:10, 13 April 2006 (UTC) :)

1) I think changing the first sentence to something like "The Vile Vortices are twelve areas distributed more or less evenly around the globe that are alleged to have Bermuda Triangle-like qualities" should ease POV concerns 2) I don't think "noted" and "academics dismiss" are particularly weaselly - but if anyone can suggest any more neutral wording I'm all ears 3) If anyone who can find any online sources debunking the Vile Vortices by all means link them. Kiwipat 23:30, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I found one link, and put it in the article. It's not great, but it's as good as there is on the net.Totnesmartin 20:59, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm happy with the changes to the article; making it clear that Vile Vortices are on the same plain as the Bunyip and Bermuda Triangle.

1. I've removed the POV warning.
2. On 'noted' having read the article on Sanderson it appears a valid adjective.
3. Re: 'academics dismiss' I maintain my objection, as the sentence seemed to imply a wholesale, knee-jerk writing off of the idea. 'Skeptics' better describes the position, as some academics may believe in VV's; dismissing VV's is not inherent in being an academic - we just want rigourous proof. --Journeyman 03:23, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Civilisations"

Civilizations. Haizum 11:55, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=civilisations

It's American English versus British... whomever made the article first or whichever better fits the article is used. DreamGuy 23:30, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is this even notable?

Never heard of this, the name is nuts, is this just some wacky neologism cooked up by some minor nobodies, or do real people ever use the term? Might need to be deleted on notability concerns. DreamGuy 23:30, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Charles Berlitz's book discusses these things. The Bermuda Triangle's talk page has their locations. Two are located over the Oceans, two or more are appearrantly located in the shipping lanes / major air travel routes - if they're real, these may pose a danger. NOT being "Skeptical", only awaiting further evidence. Martial Law 04:38, 13 April 2006 (UTC) :)

Also mentioned in Gian Quasar's latest offering "Into the Bermuda Triangle". Both books added to a Further reading section. Also, within the field Ivan Sanderson wasn't a "nobody", and while the term may be somewhat obscure to a wider audience, for those familiar with Bermuda Triangle-type lore it isn't. Kiwipat 23:30, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

A web search of the topic led me to some forum posts using VV's to explain the events in LOST. -Journeyman 03:27, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Insurence companies (n particular Lloyd's of London) already know the risks of traveling through any given bit of sea.Geni 02:02, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

But they don't believe in vile vortices, apparently - even though they would have noticed anomalous patterns of ship losses long ago. Totnesmartin 20:55, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Refutation by Paul Begg

Paul Begg wrote a series of articles in British magazine The Unexplained about 25 years ago, demolishing most Bermuda Triangle and 'vile vortex' claims. These magazines are sometimes anthologised into cheap-looking books, but their quality was often very good. Totnesmartin 20:56, 29 October 2006 (UTC)