Talk:Unio Trium Nationum

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] Romanian historiography

This article largely reflects Romanian historiography, with the theme of suppression of the Romanians by the Hungarians.

Are you arguing that the Romanians were not suppressed ? There's a reason why it was called the Union of the Three Nations. bogdan ʤjuʃkə | ^Talk 16:01, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No, I'm objecting to a biased article written only from the Romanian point of view. The article as you wrote it, portrays the Union as purely ethnically-based - it wasn't. Not only the Romanians who were surpressed - the Hungarians were too (most Hungarians were serfs). At a simplistic level, it was the Transylvanian Estates who supressed the serfs (all of them, Romanian, Hungarian and Slav). Clearly the Romanian serfs suffered more than Hungarians Scott Moore 09:25, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Serfs were excluded from politics throughout the Kingdom of Hungary, both before and after the peasants revolt of 1437,

The difference between the Hungarians and the Romanians was that there was no Romanian nobility. bogdan ʤjuʃkə | ^Talk 16:01, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I'm well aware of this fact. But, I repeat, most of the Hungarians were serfs and not nobility. Scott Moore 09:25, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

so it is simplistic to suggest that it was only the Unio Trium Natiorum that enforced the inferior position of the peasantry in Transylvania. Scott Moore 14:30, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Deletions

You deleted factual information without any reason. Please motivate each change. bogdan ʤjuʃkə | ^Talk 16:01, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

OK, I'll be more specific. "formed in 1438 by the Transylvanian Hungarian, the Saxon and Szekler nobility in order to keep the social status quo." This is incorrect (certainly how you have written it in English is incorrect). The pact was not formed only by the nobility as you have written. It was formed (as I wrote) by the three Transylvanian Estates: the nobility (largely but not entirely Hungarian), the burghers (largely but not entirely Saxons) and the Szeklers (who were not nobles, but had a special status within the Kingdom of Hungary). Also the pact was not formed only to keep the social status quo (although this was one of the reasons).

"It was formed after the Bobâlna revolt of 1437, during which peasants and serfs (mostly of Romanian ethnicity) revolted against the (largely Hungarian) nobility." Actually the revolt was led by a Hungarian (Anthony Budai Nagy) and five others (3 Hungarian peasants, 1 Romanian peasant, and a burgher from Timisoara).

This coalition specifically excluded Romanians from the polical and social life of Transylvania and although they made up the majority of the population, they were only considered a "tolerated" nation, this status being kept until after WWI.

"This coalition specifically excluded Romanians from the polical and social life of Transylvania" No, it specifically excluded the serfs. You seem to forget that most Hungarians were serfs. Scott Moore 09:17, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)