Talk:Turkmenistan
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I don't think Turkmen SSR should be redirected here. That would be like redirecting Persia to Iran or Siam to Thailand. They were different entities with their own histories. -- Zoe
- In fact Siam does redirect to Thailand. I'd suggest older names for places only deserve an article if there is a decent amount to say about them. For now I think everything is fine in Turkmenistan or History of Turkmenistan, everything being about three lines. Bagpuss
For purpose of NPOV, the use of terms such as 'squandered' should probably be avoided. Further, the line below it has an unclear link with the relevant line, despite it being suggested that it expands on the theme. Improv 06:49, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Question, did something happen to "Politics" ? I don't remember it being that POV sounding... 68.39.174.39 05:22, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Can anyone actually backup the assertion that the colour photograph labelled "A Turkmen man in traditional clothes, around 1905–1915" is from that era? Kodachrome wasn't invented until 1935 and Agfacolour wasn't invented until 1936. I'm going to rename it until somebody can come up with proof. Perhaps the implication is that the traditional clothes were common in the 1905-15 era?
Gabe 18:55, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I imagine it's from the Prokudin-Gorskii collection--see http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/empire/gorskii.html and many of the other Wikipedia articles on Central asia. 145.64.134.241 12:27, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, that photo was from Prokudin-Gorsky. It's available on this page: http://sechtl-vosecek.ucw.cz/en/prokudin-gorsky/ostatni.html and I'd make reference to that, but I don't know anything about anything on wikipedia. --209.21.65.28 22:27, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] POV
Here's as much as I could before feeling embarrassed for whoever wrote this. Bold is parts I would edit first.
President Saparmurat Niyazov, a former bureaucrat of the Communist Party of the USSR, retains absolute control over the country and opposition is not tolerated. An all-pervasive cult of personality is in place, with President Niyazov as Turkmenbashi ("The Leader of all Turkmens"). His face adorns almost everything in Turkmenistan, from banknotes to bottles of vodka. The logo of turkmen national television is his profile. The two books he had written are mandatory readings in schools, car driving courses (sic!), clubs, etc. Institutions that cannot be named after him are named after his mother. All watches and clocks made must bear his portrait printed on the dial-face. His 15 meter (50 feet) tall gold-plated giant statue stands on a rotating pedestral, so it will always face into the sun and shine light onto the capital city, which he himself designed. In reality, Niyazov is a very short person, barely taller than 150 centimeters (5 feet).
A slogan popular among Turkmens is "Halk! Watan! Türkmenbashy!" meaning "People! Motherland! Leader!". Niyazov wrote the new turkmen national anthem-oath himself, including phrases that say people who defamate the motherland or the Turkmenbashi should lose their arms.
International corporations have become party to this madness, because no entity can get licences to participate in the turkmen natural gas industry without first complying with Niyazov's strange wishes. His "Ruhnama" book has been published by foreign industrialists in all major languages and croatian, polish, hungarian and bantu (gambian) and many more languages exactly for this reason. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Redguy (talk • contribs) 03:52, 24 April 2005.
- Niyazov is a kind of man who closed all the hospitals outside capital? Why? He thinks there is no necesity in them, people can travel to capital when they're sick.
- Calling that kind of man "mad" isn't exactly a POV, it's a medical constatation.
- Ilyak 15:38, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
- "An all-pervasive cult of personality is in place" is exactly descriptive of the situation. Cf. the Economist article "Russia and Turkmenistan fall out" from Jul 3rd 2003, http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/country.cfm?id=Turkmenistan where the Wall Street Journal says the same thing, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/country_profiles/1298497.stm where the BBC says the same thing. These sources have minimal possible motivations to bias their reporting about the country in a negative direction. 145.64.134.241 12:28, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
- Parts of teh section on the economy use the same text as does the CIA World factbook entry on Turkmenistan, at https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tx.html ScottMacEachern 20:52, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
So we shouldn't write that Niyazov has "squandered" his country's wealth and resources on self-glorification because the word "squandered" isn't NEUTRAL???? We shouldn't call madness "madness" because it might be "taking sides"?? Geez, no one starts yelling that "oh no, this isn't a neutral, unbiased comment!" if someone calls Hitler or Stalin a evil madman. Niyazov is, and this is FACT and not editorializing, an evil, megalomaniacal tyrant with no regard whatsoever for the lives of his people. Let's call a spade a spade, shall we? 68.97.212.59 02:51, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Karakum Desert
In the article it states the Karakum desert covers 90% of Turkmenistan. If you click on the Karakum Desert link it says that the desert covers 70% of Turkmenistan. So which is it, 20% is a big difference. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.145.164.36 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 27 December 2005.
[edit] Condemnation of homosexuality
The article says that international groups have criticized the national anthem for condemning homosexuality, but I couldn't find anything about homosexuality in the lyrics. Am I missing something? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Masterofzen (talk • contribs) 22:12, 27 December 2005.
[edit] Wow
I don't think I really have to say this but that guy I crazy, only person close to as bad as him would be shah of Iran —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.30.173.162 (talk • contribs) 19:28, 10 February 2006.
[edit] Coastline?
How can Turkmenistan be "adjacent to the Caspian Sea" yet have no coastline? :: Salvo (talk) 20:40, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Anthem
I just removed:
- [Niazov wrote the national anthem], including phrases that say people who defame the motherland or the Turkmenbashi should lose their arms. The national anthem/oath has received condemnation from several international human rights groups because it encourages the persecution of homosexuals.
because I didn't see anything like that in the text of the anthem (although there is something about going blind), and couldn't find discussion anywhere about the anthem relating to homosexuality. Staecker 03:25, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Image removed
Someone added this image:
- Image removed
I don't see how this really adds anything to the article. At least the caption is pretty silly: As far as I know, button-down shirts, ties and suit-jackets aren't considered "traditional" clothing anywhere. --BluePlatypus 08:03, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Ruhnama "revered"?
it says that the Ruhnama is "revered in Turkmenistan almost like a holy text". That's a bit unclear and maybe slightly inaccurate. It implies that the Turkmen people honestly and sincerely believe in Ruhnama and really do revere it. Well I know some Turkmens and I can tell you that there are maybe three people in Turkmenistan who sincerely revere Ruhnama like a holy text, the rest are practically sick to their stomachs when they even see Niyazov's portrait because of all the horrible things he has done to that poor little country. Maybe change it to say something like the book is "expected to be revered...." or "the people are made to revere Ruhnama almost like a holy text." 68.97.212.59 02:57, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Image Date
If u look closley at the picture with the cammel, u can see in the right side, on one of the sacks, the date :1911. Which means that it dates AT LEAST bewteen 1911-1915, and not 1905-1915, as listed in the description. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.65.134.74 (talk • contribs) 21:17, 2 May 2006.
Never mind the camel. I just changed that bit about Rukhnama...68.97.212.59 23:01, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] For God's sake enough already!
I've had it with this Niyazov!! USA, Europe, UN, where the hell are you? Amnesty International? Human Rights Watch? SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING!!!!!!! FREE TURKMENISTAN!!!!!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.97.212.59 (talk • contribs) 04:09, 14 May 2006.
- Why should Europe do anything to free Turkmenistan, when German and French companies are doing great business with the Great Serdar Türkmenbaşy, buying from him cheap gas and building fountains and castles in his honour? Read Gundogar, it has some English articles too.
And please open an account and sign your messages... --Amir E. Aharoni 17:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I just did open an account. :) And I read Gundogar regularly. По-английски и по-русски! K. Lastochka 22:51, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
And as for Europe, the first step they should take is to stop doing business with that dictator. K. Lastochka 22:52, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Vandalism
Some user called Papi Lugliano or something like that is constantly inserting bits about some mythical Turkish leader who apparently would have founded the Hittite Empire or something. Not only are these edits false and vandalous, they're even irrelevant to Turkmenistan. Can something be done about this? Druworos 14:35, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Haha! I found that article he posted, "the legacy of Izmir Alkansur 1" or something. Total nonsense. :) K. Lastochka
[edit] Turkmenistan another "Islamic problem"?
Since Niyazov essentially portrays himself as a living god to his people, why is it that this article seems to hold that the country's official religion is Islam and that Muslims are not persecuted by this psychopath? Haven't a lot of mosques been destroyed and many Muslims imprisoned and tortured because they refused to accept his spiritual leadership? Why is it that everything negative in modern-day political discourse is blamed on Muslims?68.52.113.116 00:27, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
- Niyazov is an old school red head socialist and a crazy dictator. We can't wait normal behaviours from such a person. Such people are very dangereous for Turks. With respect, Deliogul 09:55, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
- From Islam in Turkmenistan:
"President Niyazov has ordered that basic Islamic principles be taught in public schools. More religious institutions, including religious schools and mosques, have appeared, many with the support of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Turkey. Religious classes are held in both the schools and the mosques, with instruction in Arabic language, the Qur'an and the hadith, and the history of Islam."
It also goes on to explain that Islam is not a state religion, but I'd say the above qualifies as "government support" at least. Also, AFAIK, in Ruhnama Niyazov insists that Islam is a traditional religion of Turkmen people. -- int19h
[edit] Natural gas, electricity and water are free of charge
I added this sentence. "Turkmenistan is a single country in the world where natural gas, electricity and water are available free of charge to citizens." This fact is something we are proud of, and it was not mentioned in article. ~atamyrat
[edit] name
The native name given here and the name on the Turkmen Wikipedia are not the same. -Rmpfu89 18:33, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] New Turkmen-Gazprom deal: impact on Ukraine
This BBC article is be noteworthy, still, it's a bit unclear. BBC does provide a decent overview of the Ukraine-Russia gas row. I'm noting this here for convenience; it may well better be noted elsewhere, possibly in its own entry. Any thoughts? El_C 09:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Human Rights
There's been a back and forth deletion/revert regarding paragraphs critical of the alleged current condiditons in Turkmenistan. My take is that deleting paragraphs is one thing, but when one leaves in but de-links amnesty international, it shows an agenda. Rupertg 16:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] New civilisation discovered in turkmenistan.
Perhaps we should mention it? I read it in discover. Zazaban 22:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sentence in lead
This sentence;
Turkmenistan is also under the rule of one of the world's most autocratic and repressive dictatorships.
Should not be in the lead of this article which should be primarily concerned with geography, traditional culture and so on. Certainly not without a source, any attribution or any surrounding discussion of context. I removed it, it was restored on the basis that the senetence was "indisputable". I think it should be clear to all that the sentence is obviously disputable, thus it shouldn't be carried without qualifiers. These issues need to be explored in the politics and human rights sections, surrounded by attributed sources. To simply write "one of the world's most autocratic and repressive dictatorships" is against policy. Autocratic and repressive according to whom?--Zleitzen 14:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
