Talk:Tomboy
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[edit] Tomboys and Sissies
The recent edits by 172.202.49.165, while containing much truth, struck me as very POV, not to mention unsupported. While it is true that boyishness is often more accepted in girls than girlishness in boys, I do not think that it is to the extent that 172.202.49.165 has stated, certainly not for adolesents and older children; and at any rate, (s)he did not provide links to any studies describing the relative treatment of gender-bending girls and boys. If anyone can provide any resources about this, please do. Writing under the IP 216.77.96.34 (forgot to log in), I've tried to edit the article in such a way as to mention the relation to feminine boys, while still keeping the focus on tomboys and their experiances. - solvent 15:45, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
"and this has been held up by many gender role students as the "ideal" female lifestyle"
First, who are these "gender role students"? Second, do "gender role students" have more insight or authority to give arbitrary superlatives of what is "ideal"? third, what does this statement has to do with the article? -- Rotem Dan 08:13 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I assume it's referring to a degree in "gender studies" at university. Studying a subject for several years arguably gives you a degree of authority and insight. I think there's a fairly clear connection with the subject. However, it should be attributed to a named advocate:
- Si Cologist of the University of Hampshire wrote in his thesis tomboys and boy toys (1997) that "a mixture of stereotypically male and stereotypically female behaviour is ideal".
Martin 09:26 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Just be aware that this is a form of argument from authority, which is a logical fallacy. -- Rotem Dan 09:40 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)
- Reread appeal to authority. Then come back if you're still convinced this is a logical fallacy. Martin 09:49 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)
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- You have convinced me, experts know what they are talking about, and citing a "real" expert is always a true statement. and does not deserve any underlying reasoning to be explained -- Rotem Dan 10:03 6 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Can anyone attribute all of the quotes in this article, especially the one in the Notes section? If we have a word-for-word quote from some one, we should really be able to attribute it. Paige 14:04, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- I found a ref - no idea if it's worth including, though. Martin 14:50, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)
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- Martin, I think that's perfect. I really think quotes should be referenced whenever possible, so that does the job quite well! Thanks, Paige 18:41, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC) :-)
Sorry for not attributing the quote - i didn't know i had to :(
What that girl said was interesting in its own way - i would have thought being in the "middle" meant that a girl would be all pink and girly girl sometimes and all tomboy-ish other times - instead she's rejected both. i'm not a girl so i can't say wether that's a mistake or not. Can anyone of the female gender give their view on it? PMelvilleAustin 23:51, Aug 4, 2003 (UTC)
- It's no problem, Paul, is it? Or just P? I just think that it always helpful to credit quotes to the speaker, even if the speaker is some one no one recognizes. I mean, that quote has a much different context if it comes from say a Britney Spears as it would if it comes from a Rosie O'Donnell, right? This way, readers can see the source and judge for themselves if they want.
- Personally, though, I don't know how representative my views are for other women. But I think that this "middle" is one idea, your original assumption is another, tomboy another, girly girl yet another, etc. No matter what any one else's opinion of it it, modern women are going to behave differently from eachother and often differently from the traditional views or gender roles. I think what this speaker was saying was something akin to all good things in moderation, which is certainly a respected view in most areas. Paige 15:22, 5 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- "a girl would be all pink and girly girl sometimes and all tomboy-ish other times - instead she's rejected both."Well,sir,isn't that practically impossible?If you cut off the "all"s it could be.
Well, in reply to the question,your description is more like "sometimes" than "middle".I myself am in the middle.I simply can't stand "prisses",yet I'm not dying to be a guy.. and I can't stand pink, yet I'm not the sport's obsessed stereotype of a guy.And I don't look forward to a first date or a first kiss or anything like that. So what am I?In the "middle"?Someone respond.-Anonymous
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- Just out of interest why can't you stand pink? and prissyness is not synonumous with femininity is it? PMA 22:48, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
Well, I somehow just don't like it. Too bright. Symbolic of all the too-typical feminine roles. Aye, I suppose prissyness isn't exactly the same as feminity. Prissyness is sort of like being a "girly-girl", while being feminine is just...well, the fact that you're a female. I mean, I'm growing up with a whole group of kids, both girls and boys. We hang out together, sit together at lunch with no problem. I mean, of course we have the occasional gender-related joking and aguments, but otherwise, we treat everyone the same. And all the girls I'm friends with aren't girly-girls either, so we're all basically "middles" together. Like, we don't really like the "prisses". Heh, I want to study psychology when I'm older, don't mind the rattling on.-SameAnonymous
- I guess a tomboy is what the French refer to as a "garçon manqué"?!
[edit] Category
Why is this categorized as popular culture? Hyacinth 20:14, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- You're right this article is about human behaviour, not pop culture. I've now removed it from the "pop culture" category. Walden 21:27, 2004 Sep 14 (UTC)
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- Thanks. Hyacinth 05:10, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Origin of the phrase
Anyone know where the term "TomBoy" comes from? It is kinda odd - shouldn't it be tomGIRL, logically? Just wondering where it came from.
- Here are two explanations of its origin: cliches and expressions origins at businessballs.com and wordwatch, Tomboy at ABC NewsRadio - take your pick. --David Edgar 11:08, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] one of the reasons of the occurrance of TB
"a school mostly of boys, hence the tomboy befriends few girls. "
To a large extent, in Hong Kong, TB are commonly found in girls' school whereas not easily found in a co-educational school. This can be explained by the teenage girls in girls school have rarely chance to meet the boys. At the same time, some of them Therefore, I quite disagree with the above issue.
- While I don't agree with the statement either (just due to a lack of evidence) I want to point out that the Hong Kong "TB" is a bit different from the term "tomboy" being discussed here. TB is usually accompanied by a distinct style of hair, clothing, speech, and actions, and in every case I've encountered, homosexuality. The Hong Kong term "TB" is usually likened to the English term "butch". The term tomboy here is not as systematic a defiance of gender roles as TB is, nor does it directly relate to homosexuality. 142.151.132.98
[edit] Velma from Scooby-Doo
An anonymous editor just added Velma to the list of fictional tomboys. I'm not familiar enough with Scooby Doo to remove it, but I question it. She's something of a stereotypical nerd, but that in and of itself is not an indication of being a tomboy. Just look at Hermione from Harry Potter! She's rumored to be a lesbian, but again, that is not the same as a tomboy. Can anyone support her inclusion on this list? --Icarus 22:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
- Considering that Velma always did her hair up in hairpins and wore a short, pleated skirt with feminine shoes, I would argue that she is not a tomboy according to the definition provided here. A nerd, a geek, certainly, but her mode of dress is not at all masculine nor even neutral. In my world, Velma might be considered a tomboy, but I don't happen to agree with this pages description in a lot of places. 71.110.172.13 01:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC) , a self-proclaimed tomboy.
[edit] Spoiled brats?
I'm a bit taken aback that one of the EOF links is to the Wikipedia article on "Spoiled brats." Are tomboy qualities generally considered to correlate with permissive parents? If so, this should be mentioned or explained in the article. As it is, it seems to me that the link is included as a not-so-subtle POV expression trying to imply tomboy <:> spoiled. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.114.196.240 (talk • contribs) 11:59, 6 August 2006.
- I don't really understand why someone added this to the See also section. It may have been for the reasons you proposed, or it may have simply been because it's another category into which various childhood behaviors are sorted. I'll go ahead and remove it because it doesn't seem to really fit. --Icarus (Hi!) 19:42, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Causes?
There's a list of causes, what about the possibility that a tomboyish girl just has different interests than most girls? You dont have to have messed up genes to like video games and sports better than dolls and makeup, part of it is just what people like to do/wear/behave like.
[edit] ==Adulthood==
The claims in the Adulthood section are pretty controvertial, and without a reference. I'm going to remove it, but if anyone can find a reference, feel free to put it back in. Chovain 12:40, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
