Talk:Timeline of Slovene history

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Talk:Timeline of Slovene history/Archive1 - Archive of pre-13 December 2005 discussion

[edit] NPOV

• I think the NPOV tag on this article is very counter-productive. If there's anything that people still disagree with, please either: (1) use the { { fact } } tag to mark the items that you think are not verifiable in legitimate history books, or (2) explain here on the talk page why something that has been cited in a history book is not reliable and cite your own published history book backing up your argument. I think we can discuss this for a few days, maybe until New Year's at the latest, and produce an NPOV page for once and for all. Be bold!--Mareino 22:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vlachs

I changed a recent edit by someone that (incorrectly) implied that the aboriginal Romanized population of Slovenia can be considered Vlach in the sense that they spoke an Eastern Romance language. Those aboriginal Romanized populations of Slovenia probably spoke a separate variant derived from Vulgar Latin. The Istro-Romanian Vlachs probably came into Slovenia after the Slavs, and are not a continuation of the "aboriginal Romanized population". Anyone have sources that state otherwise? Alexander 007 21:06, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid you misunderstood that part. What was meant there is that there are place names in Slovenia, such as Laško, Lahovče, Lašče etc., which are derived from ethnonym Lah and are believed to be the remains of a pre-Slavic Romanised population (not Vlach in the sense that they spoke an Eastern Romance language). Perhaps the term Vlah wasn't pertinent in that quotation, but Lah definitely is present in Slovenian toponymy. --193.77.49.122 09:49, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I expected that actually. But I believe the misunderstanding is on the other side. Lah is in Slovenian toponymy, but does anyone have any references that state that it is related to the pre-Slavic Romanized populations? More likely, it relates to Istro-Romanian or even Italian presence, which was formerly more prevalent. Alexander 007 09:56, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so. Laško is a city in Lower Styria, near Celje. The city's webpage, for example, has an overview of its history where it says that on the arrival of Slavs, the aboriginal population called Vlahi or Lahi, moved to elevated areas, hence the names Laško, Lahomno, Laška vas etc. The name Lah does not in any way relate to Istroromanians. For the latter Slovenian uses the name "Vlahi" or "Čiči/Čičari". Lah did however become applied to Italians, but Italian presence was formerly prevalent only in west Slovenia, elsewhere not. It seems early Slavs used the name "Volhǔ" to refer to their Romanized neighbours. Later, this name came to be applied for Italians and the Eastern Romance population. --193.77.49.122 11:11, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. However, two points at least: 1) A webpage for a city is often not a good source of information. I once read a page maintained by the Republic of Macedonia's Board of Tourism that stated as a fact that ancient Macedonians mixed with Slavs, which is in fact considered extremely unlikely by most historians [and no group can be called "ancient" in 500--600 AD :-) ] 2) You say that Lah never relates to Istro-Romanians; this needs verification.

Sir, I am a Slovenian and I consider knowledge of my own native language a fairly reliable verification. No, Lah does not refer to Istro-Romanians; the latter are called Čiči or Čičari (after the Istrian region Čičarija).

OK, I am not a Slovenian so I am inclined to take your word on this matter of Lah. But having references at hand for various obscure points is a must. Even a Slovenian with native understanding of the Slovenian language may be unaware of archaic or regional usage. But simpler than trying to verify all the groups that Lah may refer to is to track down a source that connects Lah and those other terms to pre-Slavic Romance populations. I would like to read such sources as well. Alexander 007 10:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I expect that the early Slavs did encounter Romanized populations when they entered Slovenia (it's more likely than supposing that they did not encounter any), but associating Slovenian names and toponyms with them needs verification from good sources. Alexander 007 21:18, 10 March 2006 (UTC)