Talk:Sexual addiction

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Contents 1 Inappropriate? 2 Adding my two cents 3 Controversy 4 Removal of the NPOV 5 Caution on criticism 6 Been There 7 My Goodness 8 Is sexual addiction real? 9 Proposed links: 10 Merge Sexual addiction with Pornography addiction? 11 A suggestion 12 Quick Review / NPOV

[edit] Inappropriate?

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09:57, 25 Apr 2005 ---- deleted "Sexual addiction" (content was: '#REDIRECT hypersexuality' -- inappropriate redirect)

I am scratching my head trying to figure out why redirecting an extremely common (if non-medical) term to the article most closely describes that concept is "inappropriate". I am restoring the redirect; if you think it's inappropriate please explain your logic at WP:RfD. -- Antaeus Feldspar 22:39, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have unmerged this article from "hypersexuality", and moved it back here, for the good and simple reason that hypersexuality is not the same thing as "sex addiction". Blurring pop-psychology with medicine is not a good idea.

There is serious doubt as to whether "sex addiction" exists. Many people are convinced it does. (See the cites in the article). Many others doubt that is exists, or that it is even a meaningful concept. [1] [2] [3] (and I can supply more, if you'd like).

There is probably a good article to be written about this, but at the moment this isn't it; at the moment, this article is a great heap of POV, that represents only one side of this controversy.

However, hypersexuality, on the other hand, is an undoubted real medical phenomenon, and an observed symptom of several medical conditions, and is acknowledged as such in the medical literature. It can be observed in cases of mania, dementia, Kluver-Bucy syndrome, and even as a result of brain surgery. (Search PubMed for cites ad nauseam.) No-one seriously suggests that it does not exist.

Still, if we don't care about precision, wouldn't it be simpler to just merge most of the medical articles to collywobbles, lurgi, gippy tummy, something wrong down below or feeling a bit out of sorts, and be done with it. -- Karada 23:35, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You know, I actually support your decision to separate "hypersexuality" and "sexual addiction" into different articles. Unfortunately, your apparent inability to deal with views other than your own in any other mode but patronizing the holders of those views means I can't support you as fully as I'd like. Perhaps next time your playground mockery can include snide and factless claims that I would support redirecting cooties to venereal disease, hmmmmm? After all, if one has chosen not to abide by the facts, one has a wide range of options for opponent-smearing.

The fact is that searching on "sexual addiction" brings up ten times the number of hits that hypersexuality does; if someone comes to Wikipedia and searches on "sexual addiction", they should get something. The quality and NPOVness of what they get will of course be determined by who's willing to put effort in, but they should not get nothing just because you don't believe any such thing exists, which is exactly the situation you created when sexual addiction only existed as a redirect and you deleted the redirect -- without going through RfD, which rather borders on abuse of administrator powers. -- Antaeus Feldspar 14:51, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There is no correlation between the number of search engine hits on a phrase and the vigor of argument which supports the legitimacy of the phrase.

You're missing my point completely and entirely. My point is no matter what its state of existence or non-existence is, "sexual addiction" is a notable concept in the cultural landscape, and thus saying "there should be nothing on it because it doesn't actually exist" is completely misguided. Even if the notion of sexual addiction was a deliberate hoax, a quick look at Category:Hoaxes would show that that hardly disqualifies it from being discussed on Wikipedia. If you are still somehow managing to hallucinate that my argument was based on the "legitimacy of the phrase", I urge you to re-read and re-read and re-read until you stop seeing things that aren't there. My point was not that the number of search engine hits on a phrase supports "the legitimacy of the phrase" but that it supports the need to return a result for that phrase. I think I've made my point very clear and I'd appreciate if you'd stop interpolating things I didn't say. -- Antaeus Feldspar 23:21, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Sexual addiction (SA) is very distinct from hypersexuality as noted.

From what I have seen, the notion of sex addiction is almost universally promulgated by those who have been indoctrinated or believe in the 12-step system. Patrick Carnes, who is mentioned as the most prolific proponent and writer of the notion of sex addiction, seems to be making a bundle off of it, also recommends 12-steps like SLAA. Certainly a lay group which depends on people buying into the notion of sex addiction cannot be looked to as authoritative. There is a growing body of evidence which reasonably identifies SLAA (Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous) and other 12-step groups as cults. So where did this renaming of behaviors previously described in the DSM to sex addiction come from? There is no sound clinical purpose in the grouping of behaviors ranging from serial one night stands, serial monogamy, compulsive masturbation, exhibitionism, frotteurism, all the way to rape, into a single vague term, sex addiction. It looks to me as though this redefinition serves the groups and practitioners patronized by this ever expanding clientele.

[edit] Adding my two cents

I think there is a better way to point out the disputed nature of sex addiction. I'll start by saying that I do believe sex addiction exists. I also understand why it is held in contention. I would like to make the argument that "addiction" is any repetitive and compulsive behaviour that endangers the person. Now, physiological addictions are much more easily to be accepted, since there is "proof". You can measure the addiction. It's the psychological addictions that are more difficult to analyze, and these include gambling and sex. One can argue that the repeated compulsive nature of these activities provides a physiological stimulus, but more down to the point, psychological addicts are still willing to bet their grandmother's last dollar, or have unprotected anal sex with a complete stranger because they need it. That's not mentally healthy. I would like to distinguish that motivation behind sex addiction differs from promiscuity in a number of ways. Many promiscuous people are open abot who they had sex with or are encouraged by their peers to go and have a good time. Sex addicts are often ashamed of their actions and will try to conceal their behaviour. They will stay up until 4am trying to figure out how they can obtain their next "fix" or sexual partner. If a promiscuous person doesn't pick up at a bar, then they go home cursing their bad luck and go to bed. Sex addicts lose their jobs, endanger their health with exposure to STI's and experience many of the same self-esteem issues as other addictions. Additionally to confirm my two cents, hypersexuality, nymphomania, sex addiction and promiscuity are all different things. I am going to rephrase certain areas of the article to encourage a more neutral tone. --Waterspyder 19:08, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

I've fleshed out the Controversy section a bit. Note that sexuality is important to life, just as eating and breathing are. Though, just as requirements for nutrition are not as immediate as requirements for oxygen, requirements for sexuality are not as immediate as requirements for food. Still, just as a person with breathing problems might become obsessive, or even desparing, about breathing the same can happen in other health related areas. Note also that I'm not even arguing that there is no such thing as sexual addiction -- just that there can be other valid causes which fit the same objective descriptions (that said, sexuality is self-limiting in scope see Human sexual response cycle as an example of this and the Westermarck effect as another). -- . RaulMiller 05:27, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

I think you did a very good job of articulating the concerns. I couldn't write on the topic since I myself am onlly well-read on one side of the issue. I'm wondering if we can remove the POV tag? As far as I can tell, the article now has a neutral POV. Expressing both sides of the issue in a factual sense is pretty well what that means. Now if someone will flesh out the intro...--Waterspyder 20:05, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

As stated above, it is an obsessive disorder. That obsessive disorders may have some commonality with addictions is clear, but that does not mean they are the same. Lets not let the addiction addicts cloud the issue. The American Psychiatric Association does not even officially use the term addiction anymore because it has been so watered down by the 12 step cults.

I am a final year psychology student and one of my modules this term is Addictive Behaviours. I've chosen to answer an exam question on sex addiction. My lecturer is one of the leading addiction psychologists in the country. He has stated in his lectures, that although focusing on behavioural rather than biological addictions, he finds the concept of sex addiction difficult. It is not that he is against sex addiction, more the mess the area is in. I have been doing research based on internet searches. I am trying to find out what sex addiction is and what it means to the people who suffer from it. One thing that has amazed me is the complete disagreement between different sites. Every web-site I have visited has a different definition. How can sex addiction exist when no-one knows what it really is? One thing my lecturer emphasised was the importance of context. He stated that everyone goes through stages in their lives when they could be diagnosed a sex addict, but that doesn't mean they are. I understand that sex addiction is very really to the people who claim to have it, and I am not denying they have a problem. I'm just finding the psychological literature to make so little sense, how can it exist? ----bex 22:22, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I have a concern with the line "People selling spiritually-based methods of treatment claim to provide an effective treatment." under "Treatment". I detect something of an anti-12-step bias in some of the comments here. I've found 12-step programs helpful, and disagree strongly with calling them "cults".

I think a much more neutral and useful statement introducing the idea of 12-step groups under treatment would be something like this:

"A number of groups based on the 12-step model of Alcoholics Anonymous provide an avenue for affected people to learn to deal with their compulsive behavior. Many have found groups such as Sexaholics Anonymous, Sex Addicts Anonymous, Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous, and Sexual Compulsives Anonymous to be quite helpful in understanding and restricting their compulsive sexual behaviors." Robnorth 23:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy

I think the information on the page is well written. I removed that line reading "According to proponents of this concept," from the beginning of each paragraph since I think that it's not neutral for one. An example would be if someone wrote that for the article on Evolution or for Intelligent Design. Let's acknowledge that there is controversy, and I have included a section on Controversy within this article. Right now there is not much information in that section, so I invite people who believe that Sexual addiction is not real to please share their thoughts and reasons in this talk page and under that heading since it will help to elaborate on the larger picture without affecting the other information that people have spent time researching and verifying. Thanks --Waterspyder 19:29, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of the NPOV

Does everyone think the article is neutral enough to remove the tag? --Waterspyder 04:45, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's ready for that yet. There's some striking simularities between the concept of "people suffer from sexual addiction" and the teachings of past religious practices such as mortification or puritanism. I think there should be some up-front coverage of this issue, with some recognition of the potential positive and negative aspects. (Potential positives: people have thought this in the past and might have had a valid reason for that. Potential negative: these reasons might be as more political and/or social than altruistic.) Either that, or there should be much more specific diagnostic criteria -- criteria which are not so trivially satisfiable by people experiencing normal relationship woes. RaulMiller 01:47, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure I particularly agree with what you said for the reasons you said it (if that makes any sense). Neutral Point of View is a standpoint that presents information from a neutral stanpoint. Well, as neutral as humans can get. Not having a specific diagnostic criteria does not make the writing of the article any more or less neutral. I'm absolutely agreeing with you that your points have merit in regards to the controversial nature of the article, but is this controversial issue presented in a way that doesn't make either side grit their teeth in ire? If both sides can read this article and not completely disagree with the way the points are presented, then NPOV exists in the writing of this article. --Waterspyder 01:53, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with you about what NPoV means. I've fleshed out how each of the existing diagnostic criteria could be interpreted to refer to something which happens in normal relationship situations. My wording is a bit hasty, and could probably be done better -- I'd really like to emphasize that people classified as "sexual addicts" can have very real problems. But I've tried to cover the controversy in more detail. I'd really prefer for the diagnostic criteria themselves to be rephrased in a fashion which, as you say "doesn't make either side grit their teeth in ire", but I'm not sure how to do that. RaulMiller 21:59, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

What's funny about the diagnostic criteria is that many psychiatrists and psychologists rarely actually use the DSM IV to diagnose, and mainly it is there as a guideline, especially for family physicians. I'll take a look though the article when I have time/energy to do it properly. It can be tricky to navigate this topic. The way that the controversy section is shaping up, it may be useful to insert subheadings, but once I take a better look I'll be able to say for sure.--Waterspyder 04:30, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Ok. Note also that the typical cycle described under Manifestation shares similar attributes. Preoccupation is characteristic of someone in the early stages of the human sexual response cycle. Much about sex and relationships gets ritualized; flirting, dating and marriage are some rather obvious classes of rituals but that's just scratching the surface. Compulsion is one way of describing the psychological changes when a person transitions to an adult and begins to be aware of their sexuality. Despair describes someone losing friends, failing in relationships and that sort of thing. All told, there's nothing there which is specific to addiction unless life itself is to be considered addictive. Perhaps I should delete from the controversy section most of the writeup on diagnostic issues and focus on these manifestation issues instead? RaulMiller 00:36, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I think that might be better. I mean, it's factual that sex addiction isn't in the DSM and no one quite agrees on the specific diagnosis. The characteristic points of sex addiction are the real items that are disputed, basically as you've outlined. I can definitely see where your points are coming from. I do want to try and give you some perspective (mine). I guess this is the point where I out myself as a sex addict. I'm in a much better place right now than I was 18 months ago, so I can look back and remember certain emotions/behaviours. Preoccupation to me is more than just thinking about it often and wanting it. Yes, that did indeed form a component with daydreaming and the whole bit. Up to a point, I believe that is normal, especially in puberty and in sexually charged situations like bars or strip clubs. But there is a line that gets crossed, preoccupation then becomes disruptive. I stopped going to sleep because I wanted it. I would seduce people at work. It was stupid and potentially destructive behaviour. That is the line.

Ritual, i'll concede, getting gussied up to go to the bar every night is something a lot of people do, and while I might question anyone who does it every night, I think that one may be too vague to ever really draw a line. I would frequently engage in behaviours that resulted in sex, with great compulsion (surfing the web, etc.), but I'm not sure that made me any different than a lotto player.

Despair is when I hit rock bottom, was having unprotected sex with strangers, and the realization that this fucking sucked (pardon the colloquialism). At the same time, it was just depression, and just one of a million roads to get there. But yeah, the controversy is more in the symptoms than anything. "How is this different from being normal?"

Just because I started sharing. I should say that I'm not trying to change your mind on whether it exists. I believe it does though. In any case, the story continued with trying to get help from a 12-step program, but believe me, being a woman in an all-male group didn't fly well. I found out I was a lucky girl when all was said and done. I met my present partner, and for a long while I thought I was getting better, but honestly, I'm not, I'm just in a socially acceptable outlet for my behaviour. I mean, the goal of the 12-step program is to stop objectifying people and no masturbation (ever) or sex until marriage. I didn't last long enough to know if it worked, but from my POV the sex after marriage was somewhat masking the symptoms in a socially acceptable role, and the no masturbation ever was making a normal act into a taboo one. I know that said that marriage was acceptable because marriage is a union under god in which you show true love and bring children into the world. I'm still not sure how I feel about that one.

I don't think I'm ever going to be completely well in this regard, so I work hard in my relationship and with any luck I won't be single any time soon to see where I really am in my progress, because that frankly scares me. Anyhow, take it as you will, but I do think when behaviour crosses a line and works towards destroying your life, and you keep doing it and you're not sure if you can stop, then I call it addiction.--Waterspyder 01:03, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Ok, that makes sense. I'll try and rework the controversy section -- hopefully in the next few weeks (unless someone else does it better, first). Just to clarify where I'm coming from: I recognize that when people talk about "Sexual Addiction", some of the people they're talking about have very real problems. But, personally, I'd classify these problems as problems relating to other people (or, more bluntly "not enough" of something which is sexual in character) rather than as problems because of their sexual drive (or, bluntly, "too much" sexual drive). Once again, I'm not disputing that people have relationship problems and I'm not really even disputing that the sorts of interaction with other people that go on during a "sexual addiction treatment program" can wind up being helpful. But I am claiming that there are at least some people with these kinds of problems where the basic approach -- treating their drives as "addiction" -- is more likely to make their situation worse than better. There are social ills here, as well as personal ills -- in much of our society, it's simply not polite to talk frankly about sexual issues, and people resort to evasion mechanisms rather than dealing with these issues positively. I see the concept of "sexual addiction" as an extension of this social flaw at least as much as it's an attempt to help those who have gotten themselves into a state they're unhappy about. Put differently, despair is awful and whatever you manage to do to get yourself above that is a positive thing, but it's probably a good idea to distinguish between "here's a label that seems to be associated with what worked for me" and "here's a concept which makes sense for people, in general". Put differently, there's nothing wrong with backing off and approaching things differently -- that's often a very good thing. But you don't need to classify the initial desire as addiction to do that. There's other concepts ("off balance", "out of tune", "unaware", "fearful", etc. etc., there's even some DSM criteria which might apply) which also can be used to describe the same issues. I wouldn't describe someone with an eating disorder as having a food addiction, and while I'll grant that eating disorders could be described as food addiction I don't think the usual concepts of addiction would really be appropriate for those contexts -- much more useful would be helping the person identify and address their real problems. Put differently, please don't consider this controversy about the concept of sexual addiction as a personal criticism of you or of any of the things you've done which help you live your life better. I'd much prefer you think of this as a debate about whether there's better ways to describe these things in a generally meaningful fashion. RaulMiller 20:12, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Oh, no worries, I know this is not about "me". People have beliefs, sometimes they don't agree. Sometimes I just find it useful to give a firsthand account. I think that much of what you say has a great deal of validity. Some people will use "addiction" as a shield to never get better. I think personally that I can attribute a lot of my personal situation to loneliness and using sex to fix that. Whether this is something many people do, I can't say, I haven't seen research for it! As for open sexuality, I think that's also a geographical thing. Some areas and age groups are more open about discussing sexuality and sexual activity. It's when you start lying to close friends that you didn't have sex with someone, or having to lie because you failed to use protection when you knew damn well you should have that the concealment becomes a real problem. So whether it is an "addiction", or merely a destructive set of behaviours that people share to solve problems, I'm not sure... and I'm not sure that will be clear until we get a little further away from Victorian ethics.

--User:Waterspyder November 5, 2004

[edit] Caution on criticism

I did clean up the criticism, and I hope that while I was removing the POV that I didn't swing it too far in the opposite direction. I would like to caution other writers on the use of original source material, usually expressing an idea that has not been previously published in the news or journals. I realize this is a tricky topic to avoid doing so, but it is a public encycolpedia and not a forum for our respective speculations on various topics. In any case, good work so far.--Waterspyder 21:24, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Been There

This is my 1st contribuition here, so I aploigize up front if I am way out of line. This is probably not of much use, but I thought I would share some of my experience. First to the suggestion: I suggest you replace "Feelings" with emotions as there is a Wikipedia article on emotions. I find the model proposed by Parrott, W. (2001), Emotions in Social Psychology, Psychology Press, Philadelphia and shown at http://changingminds.org/explanations/emotions/basic%20emotions.htm to be helpful when looking at an emotional basis for obsessive compulsive behaviors. I will also mention that model to the editor of the emotions article.

As someone who once considered them self a sex addict and did the 12 Step route for over five years, may I suggest (with all due respect to the 12 Step movement and addiction in general) that obsessive compulsive behaviors are not exactly the same as substance abuse, and trying to apply the same criteria and cure is incorrect.

Example: If a person is a compulsive hand washer, a behavior, and wants to change, they would still be encouraged to wash their hands after relieving them self. But because sex is "pleasurable" and of course the source of much moralizing over the ages there is often a desire to treat it differently. Indeed in the Sexaholics Anonymous fellowship for partners SA-Anon, there is a saying "Sex is optional."

In each individual, the effects of nature and nurturing (or the lack there of) I find truly amazing. But what I have found is that the "Acting out" of painful emotions is pretty close to what the original Alcoholics Anonymous "Big Book" identified: Fear, anger, shame. To which I add loneliness, boredom and depression. I have found that many times the sex addiction masks depression. Not vice versa as the colloquial would suggest.

Sex addiction is for most behavior,and I have found that behaviors can be changed and the "Addiction" either arrested or removed. Thus the difference between sex addiction and say an alcoholic who is one of the 15% of the population who has a physiology that reacts to alcohol differently then the other 85% of the population.

I find it interesting to note that crack cocaine comes very close to replicating the "high" produced in an orgasm.

It is also my opinion based on others research and my own personal observations that many become "sex addicts" in adolescence when they discover masturbation and porn and then use sex as a counter for painful emotions. Then rather work through these painful emotions in adolescence they get a "fix" through sex and don't develop the ability to manage their emotions except through relief via sex. And have difficulty with the secondary and tertiary emotions Parrott postulates. It is well accepted that sexual abuse can have a tremendous effect on a person. Pat Carnes in the Betrayal Bond also shows that sex addiction can demonstrate the effects of PTSD from non sexual abuse.

So if one is willing to do a bit of a paradigm shift, here is one way of looking at it:

If a 12 year old, new to the city, in their inexperience stepped in front of a bus, or was pushed by others who are ill, few would blame the victim. Few would deny the victim medical care, and no one would be surprised if even after a couple of years of treatment the adult was incapable of running a marathon. But if the effects are from an emotional blast the child can't handle, or from a series of small blasts, like a small car driving repeatedly over the same leg, so many are willing to say "Just get over it." Or you don't really have a problem.

Jon Marsh at http://www.recoverynation.com provides a non-12 Step model for changing sex and relationship addictions. One that is based on dealing with emotions from more of a scientific rather then "spiritual" basis. But one that is still based on the need to change one's belief system. Not unlike Martin Seligman teaches in Learned Optimism : How to Change Your Mind and Your Life.

Shiseiji 22:00, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My Goodness

Sex Addiction is much different from Hypersexuality. In fact, a person in treatment for sexual addiction may not exhibit an unusually voracious sexual appetite. Like a food addiction, which does not always exhibit as hyperphagia, it is the way the behaviors affect the individual's quality of life, how it affects others around him/her, and if there is difficulty in stopping the behavior in spite of attempts to do so. A good abstract on the problem of the DSM IV's failure to include sexual compulsive behavior is outlined here: "Differential Diagnosis of Addictive Sexual Disorders Using the DSM-IV"

Sexual Addiction & Compulsivity 1996, Volume 3, pp 7-21, 1996.

by Richard Irons, M. D. and Jennifer P. Schneider, M.D., Ph.D.

ABSTRACT The current Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) describes certain sexual disorders which are characterized by, or include among their features, excessive and/or unusual sexual urges or behaviors. Common disorders in the differential diagnosis include paraphilias, impulse disorder not otherwise specified (NOS), sexual disorder NOS, bipolar affective disorder, cyclothymic disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, and adjustment disorder. Infrequent disorders in the differential diagnosis consist of substance-induced anxiety disorder, substance-induced mood disorder, dissociative disorder, delusional disorder (erotomania), obsessive-compulsive disorder, gender identity disorder, and delirium, dementia, or other cognitive disorder. Addictive sexual disorders which do not fit into standard DSM-IV categories can best be diagnosed using an adaptation of the DSM-IV criteria for substance dependence.

I am too tired tonight to elaborate any more on this subject, but if I told my clients that they suffered from "hypersexuality", they'd laugh themselves silly.

[edit] Is sexual addiction real?

>>>There is no sound clinical purpose in the grouping of behaviors ranging from serial one night stands, serial monogamy, compulsive masturbation, exhibitionism, frotteurism, all the way to rape, into a single vague term, sex addiction.<<<

I hate to disagree with Robnorth, but I'm afraid he's wrong on this. Sexual addition is not determined by the specific act that the addict performs (i.e.: serial one night stands, serial monogamy, compulsive masturbation, exhibitionism, frotteurism, rape), but rather by what is causing it. The addiction is really a symptom of something else, such as childhood traumas or past experiences, just as in the case of drug addiction. What makes it an addiction is not the act itself, which as you say covers a wide gamut of activities, but rather the compulsion that causes it.

For example, we cannot say that a drug addict who has been clean of drugs for 5 years and then returns to his habit is doing so because of the addictiveness of the drug: the drug has been out of his system for years. Something else is driving him to the addiction, a compulsion to get high. Once an addict, always an addict, even if the addict never uses his drug again. The compulsion to use the drug is always there, regardless of whether it is indulged or not.

Similarly, the sex addict is driven by a compulsion to act out sexually, whether that is with masturbation, voyeurism, exhibitionism, promiscuous behaviors, fetishism, fantasy/euphoric recall, etc. That compulsion is in turn caused by something experiential and emotional, and the compulsion really reveals a need to escape that experience or emotion. Some resort to alcohol to escape, others to drugs. And some resort to sexual behaviors that cause a high that is as measurable as the high from drugs or alcohol. It is the compulsion, not the way the compulsion is acted upon, that determines the addiction. And by that standard, sexual addiction is an addiction just like any other.

The sex addict who is acting out has been found to exhibit increased serotonin levels that create a euphoric state in the addict. Much like drug addiction, the sex addict becomes inured to the effects of that serotonin high, and so needs a bigger jolt to attain the same high. This results in the addict looking for riskier behaviors which create the increase in serotonin levels necessary to attain the high. That is how the disease of sexual addiction grows and progresses in the same way that drug or alcohol addiction do.

And similar to the way that the advent of crack-cocaine heralded an increase in drug use and addiction, due to the ease and accessibility of obtaining crack-cocaine, the advent of the internet had a similar effect on sexual addiction. Prior to the advent of the internet, sex addicts had to leave their homes and go to very dangerous places and do dangerous things in order to feed their addictions. But with the advent of cheap internet accessibility, people were able to get their high in the comfort of their own home or office, without much fuss and at low cost. And because of that, sexual addiction became much more prevalent.

So addiction follows many, if not most, of the same patterns as any form of substance addiction. This in turn lends credence to its voracity as its own form of addiction.

These facts have all been quantified and reviewed in various case studies, many of which are cited by Dr. Carnes. They are indeed measurable. The fact that the DSM IV hasn't yet caught up to the knowledge that is available about sexual addiction is not reason enough to dismiss the disease as nonsense. And doing so is detrimental to those who could be helped if they simply knew where to look. Your ready dismissal of sexual addiction as a disease is, in my opinion, irresponsible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.216.142.1 (talk • contribs) .

First off, thanks for your time! This isn't a warning or anything, just something to hopefully help you out. I've little or no history with the article here, but I will just point out that your arguments will be significantly bolstered if you can cite reliable sources to back them up; this helps us to be sure of the encyclopedia's factual accuracy and neutral point of view. Because it's unfortunately difficult or impossible for us to prove our credentials in any given subject, Wikipedia generally disallows original research -- per WP:V, "the standard of Wikipedia is not truth, but verifiability. Hope that makes sense. Again, thanks. Luna Santin 21:09, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed links:

• http://allpsych.com/journal/sexaddiction.html
  • Journal article, nothing that couldn't be incorporated into the article. Better used as a reference. — Saxifrage ✎ 23:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
• http://www.jenniferschneider.com/articles/diagnos.html
  • Another journal article. See above. Better as a reference. — Saxifrage ✎ 23:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
• http://www.topix.net/content/cj/14535678066384175452
  • Seems like a well-researched news article. Not a good external link, better used as a reference. — Saxifrage ✎ 23:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
• http://www.treatment-centers.net
  • Far, far too broad, and commercial to boot. Emphatic No. — Saxifrage ✎ 23:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
• http://www.treatment-centers.net/sex-addiction.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.180.89.42 (talk • contribs) .
  • Okay, that's less broad. Good. However, it's still promoting their own services and the information contained in the (unsigned, unsourced) article is available from other sources that don't have these problems. — Saxifrage ✎ 16:31, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Sexual addiction with Pornography addiction?

See discussion

[edit] A suggestion

I'll start by stating that I believe the concept of "sexual addiction" to be erroneous at best and, as often used by proponents of the concept, sheer nonsense. Further, I consider Carnes to be an ideologue more than a scientist. My biases aside, however, the fact is that the larger psychiatric/clinical community does not accept the concept of "sexual addiction", nor does the sexology community. The reason for this is pretty simple: there is no evidence such a disorder exists.

There is a certain degree of merit to, and evidence for, considering compulsive sexual behavior to be a legitimate clinical condition. The fact is, one can already assign a diagnosis covering this concept within the current, accepted DSM-IV-TR criteria (the correct diagnosis would be 302.9, Sexual Disorder Not Otherwise Specified). But, while there is no real question that compulsive sexual behavior can be a problem, it isn't an addiction.

Anyhow, my suggestion...

Given that the diagnosis of "sexual addiction" does not currently exist as a recognized psychiatric diagnosis, and that there is a great deal of controversy over the concept, the text of the main article should be edited in a manner which reflects the theoretical (and rather dubious) nature of the concept, emphasizing that this concept is not an accepted diagnosis. Consider this example, from the existing text in the article: "Sexual addicts may enjoy frequent sexual intercourse and other sexual activities, but the key to this addiction is more the enjoyment of the journey rather than the destination. That is, sexual addicts do not require an orgasmic event in order to feel accomplished in the pursuit of their addiction."

This might be edited as such: "[i]According to Carnes[/i], sexual addicts may enjoy frequent sexual intercourse and other sexual activities, but the key to this supposed addiction is more the enjoyment of the journey rather than the destination. That is, [i]supposed[/i] sexual addicts do not require an orgasmic event in order to feel accomplished in the pursuit of their addiction."

There is already some language more or less of this sort in the article, and I think it would be better to edit the text so that such qualifying statements are employed throughout the statement, both for reasons of consistency and, again, to reflect the fact that the concept of sexual addiction is at this point theoretical, largely the work of one rather controversial figure and not a recognized diagnostic category. JeffreyWKramer 01:49, 1 October 2006 (UTC)JeffreyWKramer

[edit] Quick Review / NPOV

I reviewed this article with an eye towards NPOV.

It seems to me that relative to many other articles on wikipedia this article is already relatively NPOV, especially given the controversy these types of topics usually generate.

I think the article is clearly qualified, and would hate to see every sentence turned into allegedly and supposedly. "Proponents of sexual addiction theorize" is clear. No one is going to mistake this as a clinical diagnosis.

I would support removing the NPOV tag, but continuing what seems a good and civil discussion.

Augustz 07:10, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

If there is no objection I will remove the NPOV tag in the next few days. This doesn't mean the article can't continue to be edited of course. Augustz 08:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the NPOV tag should remain. A large proportion of the article is written as though it is a real, validated diagnosis. Rosemary Amey 06:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)