Talk:Rapcore

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1 rename?
2 info from now redirected articles
3 genre infobox changes?
4 Cypress Hill, rapcore?
5 made a category
6 Reverts
7 suggested move/split
8 Other influences
9 Anthrax
10 Megadeth?
11 Rollins Band
12 Anthrax/Megadeth/Rollins
13 Ludicrous edit war
14 Rapcore vs nu metal (example music video)
15 Re-protected

[edit] rename?

This article is part of WikiProject Hip hop, an ongoing effort to improve articles related to hip hop culture and hip hop music. The goal of the project is to bring this article, along with all others to featured status. If you have any questions, concerns or wish to participate you can visit the main project page here.

This page should be called rap-metal, because rap-rock and rap-metal are the commonly referred to genres. Rapcore is not even recognized by allmusic.com. Any objections/comments? --Urthogie 08:39, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Rapcore:
- Rap-metal
- Rap-punk
- Rap-rock

--LUCPOL 12:21, January 23 2006

Exactly, we should have pages for Rap-metal and rap-rock, and make this a disambiguation page. BTW: please sign your posts. Thanks!--Urthogie 12:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Anthrax = Heavy metal! Is not rapcore!!! --LUCPOL 15:40, January 24 2006

1.Even if you think I'm wrong, please dont revert my entire post, just remove references to Anthrax.

2.Anthrax are in fact rap-metal, in addition to being other forms of metal.

"but the true birth of rap-metal was Anthrax's comic 1987 single "I'm the Man," which combined a heavy guitar riff (actually the melody of "Hava Nagila") with full-fledged, surprisingly competent rapping... but the intense hardcore tone commonly associated with '90s rap-metal was established by another Anthrax record, a 1991 remake of Public Enemy's "Bring the Noise" that featured members of PE itself."allmusic.com

Now please revert yourself.--Urthogie 15:55, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I believe that rap-metal/rap-core/rap-rock was born over twenty years ago by Red Hot Chili Peppers' 1984 single "True Men Don't Kill Coyotes". --85.18.14.4 14:50, January 29 2006

I have never heard of the term "rapcore" until I saw this page. "Rap-rock" or "rap-metal", although stupid names, seem to be more standard than "rapcore" - and in terms of an encyclopedia I would think a change is necessary. 131.183.84.95 16:29, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] info from now redirected articles

== would rapcore be part of metalcore, since metalcore is a mixture of heavy metal and hardcore punk, while rapcore is a mixture of heavy metal, rap, and hardcore punk why was no info merged from the rap rock and rap metal articles before they were redirected to this page? i'll work on this when i get some time, if someone doesn't do it before (revisions of both articles prior to the redirect; [1], [2]) --MilkMiruku 11:58, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] genre infobox changes?

to LUCPOL; can i ask why you moved funk before Hardcore punk and Heavy metal in the 'Stylistic origins:' section, and also why you've rearranged the 'Typical instruments:' section? i wouldn't say that a sampler and bass guitar are more important than a lead electric guitar. --MilkMiruku 12:02, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cypress Hill, rapcore?

Is it right to consider Cypress Hill a rapcore group? I know they do do some rock rap songs but in essence they are a rap group and mostly do rap music, instead of this hybrid of rap and rock. 6:00 UTC February 26, 2006

It's possible to be in two genres at once.--Urthogie 09:43, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

They're not rapcore. Straight up hip-hop. If you care enough, it's more Hispanic hip-hop than general (East Coast) hip-hop. MOD 13:33, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Straight up hip hop? Obviously your knowledge of Cypress Hill is minimal at best. They had half a double album (Skull & Bones) of rapcore material, plus numerous other tracks on other albums (Trouble, Catastrophe and Amplified, just off the top of my head). They've incorporated rock into their music for a long while now. To consider Cypress Hill a rapcore group is perfectly reasonble, as previously said; you can be in more than one genre at once. - Ezenden 02:31, 07 August 2006

I have to agree that doing a few songs that fit into rapcore doesn't make a band rapcore, unless it's a large amount of songs, I know too little of Cypress Hill to be an authority but if they have, say, less than 10% rap songs with rock mixed into it for example, I think it's better to label them hip hop and let it be stated on their own page that they sometimes mix hip hop with rock.

[edit] made a category

Check it out, Category:Rapcore. Please use it.--Urthogie 16:15, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reverts

stop reverting. noone agrees with you on this.--Urthogie 17:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
stop reverting. noone agrees with you on this. LUCPOL 18:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Stop denying the truth. Others do agree with me, and they revert you.--Urthogie 20:10, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

LUCPOL, why don't you explain your reasoning, instead of forcing an edit war? MOD 11:55, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

? LUCPOL 12:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. You have no idea what's going on. Please, stop making edits to the genre box. If you can qualify your knowledge to be better than any other editor of Rapcore, you can finally change it and keep it that way. So far, all you've done is a tug of war. And you keep losing. MOD 13:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Traitor, Judas. To give rapcore rock-people. Rapcore is rap + elements rock/metal. They (rock-people) to have Nu-metal: rock/metal + elements rap/hip-hop. LUCPOL 13:02, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

PS. I'm hip-hop fans. I'm like hip-hop/rap/rapcore. I dont like Nu-metal/metal/rock. I'm listen to Cypress Hills, Limp Bizkit, Kottonmouth Kings etc. I know - Rapcore is rap + elements rock/metal. True good! LUCPOL 13:07, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations, you can copy and paste, you ingrate. MOD 16:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Every to know - Cypress Hills, Kottonmouth Kings, Insane Clown Posse etc is culture Hip-hop. LUCPOL 13:46, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Cypress Hill is certainly a hip hop band, while Kottonmouth Kings claims to have "a punk attitude" and Insane Clown Posse is used to merge horrorcore lyrics with death metal instruments. Egr, 9/5/2006

Hehehehehehehehehe. Splendid joke. LUCPOL 15:38, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Cypress Hill is "Marijuana" rapcore (hip hop) band, Kottonmouth Kings is "Marijuana" rapcore (hip hop) band, Insane Clown Posse is horrorcore rap / rapcore (hip hop) band. Every to know - Cypress Hill, Kottonmouth Kings, Insane Clown Posse etc is culture Hip-hop. LUCPOL 15:38, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Do you not realize that nobody agrees with you? What the hell is "Marijuana" rapcore? Stop making up genre names, you don't have a clue. Do you even live within a thousand miles of the states? If not, how can you attest to a genre born from here. Or more specifically, a hybrid of two genres born here that was born here? I'm not saying you can't be an expert from afar, but not only do you not explain yourself, but you make an ass out of yourself by being rude and arrogant. Learn English. MOD 16:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

This whole rapcore genre is made up. Whenever hardcore bands, or bands that had ties to hardcore, added a new element to their music, fans always felt the need to re-classify them. For example, the Bad Brains were rastafarians who also performed reggae songs. As a result, they were labeled rastacore. Here in New Jersey, the band Mucky Pup would perform hardcore that much more lighthearted and everybody seemed to be wearing a baseball hat. As a result, we jokingly called them hatcore. Nobody took the terms seriously. In fact, these sub-genre titles were so insignificant that nobody has bothered to create articles on them. The only hardcore sub-genre that was commercially accepted, was ska-core and that's only because The Mighty Mighty Bosstones used the term in an album title. As far as I can tell, the term rapcore must have been coined in Europe because I've never heard anyone, here in America, use the term. I suggest putting the article up for deletion but even if the article were to stay, half of the bands listed should not even be considered as they have no hardcore ties and THAT'S where the "core" part of the term comes from. It has nothing to do with rock, funk or heavy metal. JohnBWatt 18:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed.--Urthogie 18:22, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[3] [4] So much for made up genres and doing 10-second Google searches... Rapcore is the modern name for rap-rock, I think this is understood. That's its basic formula, being artificial has nothing to do with it. And I've never even heard of ska-core in the states, but the endless and pointless metal/queer/etc/core subdivisions do pop up every now and then. Also, just because it's a portmanteau doesn't mean it's somehow illegal. Hardcore is a genre of rock, is it not? MOD 19:40, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Finding it on Google doesn't make it legit. Ska-core, although accepted, is just as silly as rapcore. (Since you've never heard of it though, the album referred to is Ska-Core, the Devil, and More.) While I am all for deletion of the article, I'm not opposed to merging it with another article. I never said it was illegal either but where do the subgenres stop? It also doesn't need to be added to every band that seems to have an element of rap and rock, as LUCPOL has been doing. JohnBWatt 20:01, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

When it hits a million, there's some doubts to be had as to how illegit it really is. I don't really care about this article, but to say that this genre is fake, when it's rather obvious that it isn't is ignorant. MOD 20:25, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

It's as real as any of the other bogus sub-genre classifications people feel the need to put bands in. While belonging to larger genres of music, terms like rastacore, hatcore, ska-core and rapcore are usually localized terms created by fans and not adopted by the music community at large. It doesn't matter how many items are returned on Google. Jackalope will return just as many websites but it doesn't make it real. Don't get so bent out of shape. Whether the article stay or goes, my main point is just to have LUCPOL stop automatically adding rapcore to every article concerning bands that have elements of rap. I'd be willing to bet that 99% of the bands listed would not even consider the term when applied to them. JohnBWatt 20:51, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not defending hatcore or rapcore for that reason. I'm saying that it's better to stay since the term has had at least the dubious honor of being written up in Wikipedia, to some extent in depth. LUCPOL can do as he desires, which seems to be to let the grown ups pick up trash after him. And while Jackalope is certainly ludicrous, not only is it completely verifiable, nearly 80 years old, and it has appeared in various forms of entertainment. So its comparison to a new term for rap-rock is rather strange. I'm not against this being a disambig page, like I said I could care less whether this article is about robots making soup, the point is it isn't so obviously localized as you make it out to be and deserves more research than the musical chairs game LUCPOL keeps playing with the genre box. MOD 00:59, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

The decision to use Jackalope was strictly to illustrate using Google search for a term is not always the best research, as it will bring up items that don't actually exist. Does the term rapcore exist? Of course it does if it's being talked about on these websites. According to the list in the article though, the term is too vague to accurately describe every band listed. As I said before, if it was strictly describing bands that came out of or were connected to the hardcore scene, where the "core" suffix derives from, I'd understand the connection. It doesn't though. So far, it just lists any rap group that happens to use guitar or any band that happens to incorporate rap. As a result, LUCPOL just adds rapcore to any such band's article. You yourself complained and removed his "contribution" to the Cypress Hill article. If this is such a universally accepted term, then I'm sorry, but if that's the case, then it needs to be seriously cleaned up and redefined. It's not doing its job and is only lumping bands together based on one small similarity. JohnBWatt 01:25, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Insane Clown Posse and Twiztid are straight up hip hop/rap groups. The just used a guitar as a interlude is a few of their songs, they don't rap while the guitar beat is playing. Also, why do you think they do songs with 2 Live Crew, Bone Thugs N Harmony, Mack 10, Three 6 Mafia, Snoop Dogg, Ol' Dirty Bastard, E-40, etc.? They are all gangsta or hardcore rappers. I'll admit ICP and Twiztid are not really gangsta rap (except a few songs), but they definately are hardcore hip ho

Always we may to divide - 2 arcicles:

Rapcore (resting hip-hop) - Cypress Hill, Kottonmouth Kings, Beastie Boys, etc
Rap-metal / Rap-rock (resting rock/metal) - Linkin Park, POD, Papa Roach, Guano Apes etc LUCPOL 15:46, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Some rapcore/rap-metal/rap-rock artists nearer to hip-hop, assert nearer to rock/metal. Time to divide. LUCPOL 15:54, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

The sentence "always we may to divide" disqualifies you completely from passing any judgment on something so fine and fragile in nature as a musical genre. You might know something about this genre (HIGHLY doubtful), but that does NOT qualify you to write about it in an encyclopedia, where supposedly facts and NOT personal opinions are written. MOD 16:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I come from Poland. My english is weak (~ en-2), but to know on hip-hop. Not "disqualifies me completely". I know - Rapcore = rap + elements rock/metal. Is true. LUCPOL 16:58, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Your "knowledge" of hip-hop doesn't excuse your lack of tact. MOD 19:40, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Rap-metal and rap-rock are part of rapcore. Read the article. Cypress hill etc. are only a small portion of the rapcore acts. this is your POV to focus on cypress hill etc. and not others. by the way, its almost impossible to discuss any changes with you because you don't know english. please learn english before editing, as its impossible to have a conversation with you otherwise. one would think that someone who barely knows the language wouldn't edit war, as its impossible to discuss on the talk page with them. But nooooo, you insist on revert warring without knowing the basic syntax of the english language. wonderful, great way to enhance the encyclopedia. --Urthogie 16:18, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I won't edit war. Stop edit war. I'm stop revert. Somebody must to stop. Somebody is ...Lucpol. Cheers. LUCPOL 19:23, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] suggested move/split

How about we split this into Rap-rock and Rap-metal, which are genres recognized by the music press?--Urthogie 12:07, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Would this have much value? How different, really, is rap with distorted guitars from rap with distorted guitars? MOD 00:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

1) They are recognized as different genres by the music press. 2) Rap-metal uses distorted guitars that play metal, while rap-rock uses distorted guitars that play rock.--Urthogie 10:11, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

1) ^{[citation needed]} 2)The difference between metal, a relatively specific subgenre of rock, and rock, a genre that encompasses more than a dozen different styles, is that of the difference between an egg and a hen that has laid a dozen more. Rap-rock would encompass rap-metal. MOD 11:36, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Amazon.com, which is known for having the interface which is easiest for the most people, refers explicitly to the genre of rap rock as a subgenre of rock(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/408262/104-3480361-6568759).
Your example with the egg-laying chicken ignores the fact that subgenres are different-- hence, the eggs would be very different.
Yes, rap-metal is encompassed by rap-rock, just as metal is encompassed by rock. We have articles on both.

--Urthogie 13:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The "eggs" aren't very different, they derive from one "hen," which is rock. Rock and metal are obviously different styles of music, but the difference between rap-rock and rap-metal is insofar vague at best. MOD 13:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Rock and metal have different pages. Until you succeed at merging them, I don't think we can consider the eggs in your metaphor similar.--Urthogie 13:36, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

"rock and metal are obviously different styles of music." I don't have to spoon-feed you what I write, do I? I said the actual rock and roll general and heavy metal genres are different. What is not yet decided or elaborated upon is how rap-metal and rap-rock differ. If they do not, rapcore stays, from what I can tell. MOD 16:42, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll give you a better answer later. Right now I've got to eat salt beef.--Urthogie 16:59, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other influences

Someone should unlock this page and add that other influences for rapcore come from anything by Biohazard and Suicidal Tendencies. Egr, 14/5/2006

I'll go and get it unprotected.--Urthogie 13:33, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anthrax

Even though Anthrax only did 2 rap songs, wouldn't they be considered rapcore.

[edit] Megadeth?

Would Megadeth be considered Rapcore because of the fact that Dave Mustaine has a tendency to speak on some songs, such as "Sweating Bullets" and "Angry Again," or would that be spoken word?

[edit] Rollins Band

Would the Rollins Band be considered Rapcore?

[edit] Anthrax/Megadeth/Rollins

This is exactly what I thought would happen to this entry. Any band that vaguely flirted with rap is going to be lumped into it. I'm hoping it's a joke when someone asked if Anthrax, Megadeth and Rollins are rapcore. So somebody speaking in a song is now considered rapping? And that must automatically make it rapcore. This has gone beyond silly and entered the mundane. JohnBWatt 01:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Anthrax, Megadeth and Rollins is metal. Is not rapcore! LUCPOL 18:28, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Precisely, Anthrax and Megadeth are thrash (not TRASH, umpf!!!) metal, Rollins are alternative rock. Egr, 7/7/2006

[edit] Ludicrous edit war

The edit war on this page is getting to silly proportions. Fair warning: the next person to show up out of the blue with what looks likely to be a sockpuppet, to revert without a (to the point) talk page contribution, or to use an abusive edit summary, will get a short (and thereafter rapidly escalting) block. Egr, you may be being provoked here, but you look to be well over the 3RR, so I suggest stepping back for the time being. Alai 21:29, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Please Alai, believe me. The problem is that I am trying to simplify its intro, but Lucpol is convinced that I am a vandal. -- Egr, 8/4/2006

I understand, and a lot of the reverting edits look very fishy, I realize. But nevertheless, someone less of a soft touch than I would have blocked you about three edits ago (though not necessarily only) you. Let's see some use of the this talk to discuss the article contents in detail: in particular from those using edit comments to enjoin others to do so. What's the case for either version of the intro, or link-list? BTW, please use ~~~~ to sign your talk page comments -- thanks. Alai 22:06, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

If there is edit war as a result new change - shift back change for arcicle non edits war and resume in discussion arcicle. LUCPOL 22:35, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

You were both clearly warned: I'm now blocking you both. Alai 22:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Please unlock this article soon. FM Static is so not rapcore. — Phantasy Phanatik | talk | contribs 05:44, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Given that there's been no discussion here whatsoever of the material under dispute between the protagonists, I'd continue to suspect that unprotecting will just get us straight back into another pointless edit war. Though we'll have to, at some point... Alai 18:11, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rapcore vs nu metal (example music video)

[edit] Rapcore: hip-hop/rap + elements rock/metal

[edit] Rapcore: hip-hop/rap + rock/metal (Rap-rock or Rap-metal)

[edit] Nu metal: rock/metal + failure/very little elements hip-hop

[edit] Re-protected

I've reprotected the page in light of recent edit-warring. Please discuss any changes necessary instead of reverting each other. Many thanks. --WinHunter ^(talk) 14:13, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

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Category: WikiProject Hip Hop articles