Template talk:Quotation

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Contents 1 Usage 1.1 Related templates 2 Quote box 3 Scaling 4 css version 5 Sorry 6 Optional parameters 7 can't make template work 8 Thumb + Quote 9 External link in quotation not working 10 FYI on Paragraph Breaks 11 Text Citation vs. Spoken Citation 12 PrettyQuotation fork 13 Removing background 14 Re: Reverted change by user:Omegatron

[edit] Usage

{{Quotation|Cry "Havoc," and let slip the dogs of war.|[[William Shakespeare]]|[[Julius Caesar (play)|Julius Caesar, Act III, Scene I.]]}}

produces

Cry "Havoc," and let slip the dogs of war.

—William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar, Act III, Scene I.

{{Quotation|{{Lorem ipsum}}|[[Cicero]]|De finibus bonorum et malorum}}

produces

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

—Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum

[edit] Related templates

{{quote box}} {{cquote}}

[edit] Quote box

Isn't this sort of redundant, since we already have Template:Quote box? --Jtalledo (talk) 23:56, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

This one's a lot more subtle than Template:Quote box. It seems, therefore, to be useful in situations where the other template might not (like in the body of an article). -Seth Mahoney 21:39, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

What's with the small font? I detest gratuitous font size changes like this. I'm glad my eyesight doesn't suck.
As an aside, this looks like something you could find on a blog, not something a professional encyclopedia would do. Just because it's a website doesn't mean we obsolete printed typesetting.
And if I can gripe some more: you're putting a custom-formatted table inside a <blockquote>. That nearly defeats the purpose of <blockquote>, since all you're doing is indenting the resulting box. See the recommendations at [1].
(No, I'm not going to edit this. Style tweaking tends to be a huge waste of time on WP. Knock yourself out.) 82.92.119.11 15:50, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I popped the table out of the template. æle ✆ 21:30, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scaling

This box seriously runs into problems when next to thumbnail boxes (see Søren Kierkegaard). Can anyone fix the code so that it adjusts width when facing images? gren グレン ^? 22:00, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] css version

I was thinking that this template could be improved with a simpler-HTML, CSS-based version, something like this:

When secessionists protested in 1861 that they were acting to preserve traditional rights and values, they were correct. They fought to preserve their constitutional liberties against the perceived Northern threat to overthrow them. The South's concept of republicanism had not changed in three-quarters of a century; the North's had. ... The ascension to power of the Republican Party, with its ideology of competitive, egalitarian free-labor capitalism, was a signal to the South that the Northern majority had turned irrevocably towards this frightening, revolutionary future.

— James McPherson, "Antebellum Southern Exceptionalism: A New Look at an Old Question," Civil War History 29 (Sept. 1983)

You can't see the above example without this CSS — put in your monobook.css or use the test styles bookmarklet:

blockquote.quotation {
    font-size: 90%;
    margin: 1em 4em 1em 2em;
    background: url("http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/Left_double_quotation_mark.png") no-repeat;
    padding-top: 3px;
    padding-left: 35px;
}

blockquote.quotation cite {
    padding-top: 5px;
    display: block;
    text-align: right;
    font-style: inherit;
}

instead of this:

And I thought, since blockquotes aren't being used for anything on the Wikipedia except blockquotes (I hope), we could just dispense with the quotation class and use the same style for all blockquotes.

The only problem is that it breaks when next to floating images, as mentioned above. Any ideas? — Omegatron 06:55, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry

Sorry, but this is isn't an attractive template. As it stands, it doesn't even make logical sense. We have a big "``" and then we duplicate it with another """, and then we don't terminate it with another big "", I think it would be much more useful if we got rid of the silly image. Dysprosia 00:25, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe you're supposed to use quotes inside it. It's meant for blockquotes, not inline quotations. Using a big quote icon to indicate a blockquote is pretty standard on the web: [2][3][4][5] (scroll down) — Omegatron 01:03, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

That doesn't mean it looks attractive, nor does it mean we have to do what they do ;) Dysprosia 10:58, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... I kind of like it. I think blockquotes should be set off from the text a little more than they are. Do you have any alternative ideas? Regardless, the style should be applied to every blockquote on the site; not just the ones inside a template. — Omegatron 14:46, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd be quite happy without the silly image. If one wants to indent further, one can do so. But that's just my 2c. Dysprosia 04:41, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

The image is awful. If someone doesn't change it, I'm going to have to go back to the places in which I used thisd template and undo them. — goethean ॐ 20:20, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I got used to the template with both the image, and without. You see, with the image in place, I was forced to take out quotation marks in my quotes, as, like Omegatron said, they are for blockquotes. Now that the enormous " has gone, I believe I have to go back and add quote marks... (I used about 5 of them in The Killers (band). Kareeser|^Talk! 06:31, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

The manual of style says not to use quotation marks inside block quotes. And if they should, in fact, be there, this template puts them there anyway. — Omegatron 15:00, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

We want to be important and to last.

—Brandon Flowers, Unverified

Now, why do we need yet another box enclosing the quote? Dysprosia 10:03, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with the box, but I think that there should not be quotation marks within it per Omegatron's comment. — goethean ॐ 14:40, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree and am glad they were removed.

^—IGNIS_SCRIPTA—

21:46, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Now people are going to add them inside the article, though. — Omegatron 00:11, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Are they simply unaware that is not in accord with blockquote procedure? I honestly think the box itself does a suitable job of setting the quotation apart from the text, giving it the air it requires, whereas that with the quotation marks is superfluous. On another note, this might solve the difficulties the template runs into with thumbnails and so forth—someone familiar with the coding should take a close look; I've never seen the linked template run into any remotely similar problems.

^—IGNIS_SCRIPTA—

01:39, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Are they simply unaware that is not in accord with blockquote procedure?

Yes. — Omegatron 21:19, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Optional parameters

Is it possible to make the attribution bits optional? Sometimes it's attributed to a person without a text, sometimes a text with no person speaking, and sometimes the text or person are implied by the article (a list of quotes). — Omegatron 21:18, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] can't make template work

I just tried about five times tgo make this template work. Can anyone tell me what I was doing wrong? [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] — goethean ॐ 22:30, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I discovered it is the "=" sign that some how interupts the code's representative effect. Try quoting without it. For example, "1 plus 1 equals 2."^—ignis_scripta— 22:39, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thumb + Quote

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

—Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum

[edit] External link in quotation not working

As co-anchor of CNN’s morning program, Cafferty had something to report on March 31: “It’s a red-letter day here in America,” he said. “Air America, that communist radio network, starts broadcasting in a little while.” Cafferty was unyielding when CNN colleague Soledad O’Brien responded by saying that the new talk-radio network was not communist but liberal. He replied: “Well. Aren’t they synonymous?”

—Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, Announcing The P.u.-litzer Prizes For 2004

Can anyone tell me why the external link in this quotation isn't showing up? Thanks. -- noosphere 20:44, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Without a doubt, it is the "=" again. I'm not exactly sure how, but you will have to find a means to reference the link without having the "=" in the template.—^ignis _scripta 22:11, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your prompt reply, Igni. Do you know if there's a chance that the template will be fixed to allow every valid URL ? -- noosphere 22:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I honestly cannot say. Although I am of the assumption that somewhere someone, who is also familiar with the code, will reckon with these issues (including the thumb problem) and thereby fix them. I unfortunately am not that someone, so we must wait it out.—^ignis _scripta 22:25, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

See the template above for how situations like this can be handled. -- grm_wnr Esc 23:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, grm_wnr! -- noosphere 23:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FYI on Paragraph Breaks

In case anyone needs to include paragraph breaks in this template, just include a <br> tag wherever needed. Hope this helps, GChriss 20:35, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

The <p> tag is also preferable. — ^ignis _scripta 21:23, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Text Citation vs. Spoken Citation

Is this template only appropriate when the source is a published document? Example: Michael Hayden. Thanks, GChriss 06:05, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] PrettyQuotation fork

I've now forked my version of this template to Template:PrettyQuotation, which lacks the (imo) ugly box. Spiff 18:48, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Please don't fork style templates. Styles should be uniform everywhere. — Omegatron 12:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removing background

The whole point of this template is that it makes a quotation stand apart from the other content, which is desirable in some articles. If you remove the background, then it would defeat the object and would be no different to the standard "blockquote" tags. Provided it's used where it displays properly, then I think the background should stay. If it causes problems, then use "blockquote" instead. At least that way everyone's happy. Chris 42 11:56, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. — Omegatron 12:05, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Reverted change by user:Omegatron

you reverted the change on this template. Could you please explain the reason? Just for interest, I originally wrote this template on 8 June 2005 and the present version does not work correctly with thumb images - see here and the first example below:

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

—Cicero, De finibus bonorum et malorum

while the version I amended, worked as here:

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

— {{{2}}}, {{{3}}}

A detailed explanation would be helpful so that I can properly appreciate your logic. Many thanks. (This message is also copied to talk page of template)--Hari Singh 05:08, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I reverted it. Someone modified the original so that the background was removed thus making it identical to a blockquote tag. I obviously reverted back one version too far by mistake. Many apologies. Chris 42 11:25, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I've just noticed that my reversion was on 1 September: I had nothing to do with today's edits. Either way, I would like the background to stay as otherwise it will mess up the presentation of certain articles, and, as stated above in "Removing background", what would be the point of the template if it just duplicated the blockquote tag.? Chris 42 11:48, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what Chris is talking about, but I reverted simply because it's improper HTML. You're trying to format a blockquote by putting it inside a table instead of using the blockquote tag. This is bad for several reasons. I'm pretty sure the same effect can be achieved with DIVs and CSS. I started to look at this a while ago but never finished. I think the image frame markup might be the culprit. — Omegatron 12:29, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Should be fixed now; uses the proper, semantic blockquote tag but "establishes a new block formatting context" with "display:table", which causes it to be pushed out from under floated elements. — Omegatron 14:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)