Talk:Pavlova (food)

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Contents 1 Picture Concerns 2 Rarely at home 3 Elsewhere? 4 NZ or Aus 5 NZ or AUS 6 Toppings 7 Cornflour

[edit] Picture Concerns

The picture in this article is certainly not an accurate depiction of the standard pavlova. It has wine gums on the top!! That is not a pavlova. Needs changing!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HTait (talk • contribs) .

Feel free to provide a better picture. Putting {{cleanup-image}} in the article is not appropriate.-gadfium 08:42, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

May I ask why not? It certainly draws attention to the issue.--HTait 05:10, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

The minor reason is that the template is intended for the talk page of the image in question, not for an article in which the image appears. See Category:Images_for_cleanup, into which the template puts any page it is placed on. The major reason is that you are not objecting to the quality of the image, you are objecting to its content. The template is intended for images which need to have their balance adjusted, or be cropped etc. It would be possible to remove the winegums with a photo-manipulation program, but that would not be honest. You are going to have to buy or make a pavlova which you think is more authentic, and photograph it for the article.- gadfium 05:19, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rarely at home

Does anybody else dispute the sentence "Pavlova is rarely made at home in Australia or New Zealand today"? In New Zealand, virtually every pavlova I have had the pleasure of eating was home made. - GaryW 20:21 Mar 28, 2003 (UTC)

I agree! Supermarket pavlovas - yuck. Piha 21:29, 24 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I think supermarket pavlovas are nice! :-) and a hell of a lot easier.

Easier yes. Nice...? You obviously haven't tasted a real home-made pav.

I making a pavlova soon, i have never made one before are they hard to make?

[edit] Elsewhere?

Do other countries have them? The article doesn't really emphasise NZ/Aussie thing. Tristanb 12:38, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Not sure, but I just had Christmas dinner with a Californian visitor who'd never seen one before. Securiger 12:18, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Never heard of them in the UK prior to coming to New Zealand. Presumably with the number of antipodeans in the UK now they're pretty well-known there, though. Grutness|^hello?

Things called pavlovas are all over the place, but the toppings can be anything at all, and are hardly ever the tradition Australian ones. I don't know whether this is a new UK version of the word, or whether it's like this in NZ. JPD (talk) 15:30, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NZ or Aus

The NZ/Australian origin of the Pavlova is an interesting question. As far as I can tell, New Zealand can certainly claim credit for the name "pavlova". But, and it is a big but, the "pavlova" that was created in 1926 in New Zealand is not the same thing as the "pavlova" that was created by Bert Sachse in Perth in c. 1935. The New Zealand "pavlova" contained gelatine. The Aussie "pavlova" does not. There are probably other, more significant differences. The point is that when the world says "pavlova" nowadays, it means the entity that had its origin in Australia, not the entity that had its origin in New Zealand. So, it is an Australian recipe. I think we Aussies are being more than generous in allowing our Kiwi cousins to claim credit for coming up with the name - but only the name. JackofOz 06:35, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC)

That's like saying that although the Soviet Union was the first country to put a man in space it doesn't count because he was a cosmonaut and not an astronaut - and since everyone knows that space travellers are called astronauts the US can say it was the first.

I thought I was the master of false analogies, but that takes the cake! You must be a Kiwi. (1) Since when did the USA ever claim it was first to put a man in space? All it's ever claimed is to be the first to put a man in orbit (John Glenn), and the first to get humans to the Moon and back alive. (2) The point I was making was that, although the same name "pavlova" has been applied to the NZ dish and the Australian dish, the 2 dishes are different things because they have different recipes. The Australian dish is what the world recognises as a "pavlova". The NZ dish is something different (although obviously not fantastically dissimilar). NZ came up with the name, but the Australian recipe is the standard "pavlova", not the NZ recipe. JackofOz 01:59, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Excuse my slightly tardy reply, Jack, but I think the US has to accept that John Glenn was not the first man in orbit. See Yuri Gagarin and Gherman Titov. They probably didn't dine on pavlova while in orbit, but then I doubt that Glenn did either.- gadfium 07:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey, fair crack of the whip mate! The Australian recipe is the standard pav recipe? No way. Check out Wikipedia's pav article, and Wiki BooksCookbook:Pavlova. They (and thousands like them) are the NZ recipe. The Ozzie bible must surely be the Australian Women's Weekly's Complete Book of Cookery cookbook. It has cornflour in the recipe! Yech. That is not the standard recipe by any stretch of an Aussie imagination. (Please don't mention the cricket, but it's OK to talk about rugby union and rugby league if you wish). Moriori 02:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

And who says the Ozzie bible is the Australian Women's Weekly's Complete Book of Cookery cookbook? My mum's pav recipe is the best, and whatever that is, is the standard pav recipe. When it comes to culinary matters, no book is better than any Aussie guy's Mum's cooking. JackofOz 09:20, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Wow, I have a brother I didn't know about! You must be, because that's MY Mum you're talking about. (Imagine the Merkins here trying to work out what Mum means. ):- Moriori 19:14, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Great to meet you, trans-Tasman bro. JackofOz 00:14, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I think you will find that the "Ozzie['s]" cookbook is Margaret Fulton's Encyclopedia of Food & Cookery. Although I can't see Pav. in the copy I've got. Monkeyblue 07:30, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I now have a date for the creation of the Pavlova by Bert Sachse in Perth, Western Australia - the date is 3rd October 1935. I propose to enter this into the article as 'holy writ' if I don't get any alternative information. JackofOz 10:46, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Just as long as you don't try to claim it was invented then :) Grutness|^hello? 13:06, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

whos going on about american being the first to go to the moon? they never went at all. Ozzy can have the Pav, while us NZ'ers can have the bungy jump, electric fences (pioneered in the 1930s by Bill Gallagher of the Hamilton based Gallagher group), buzzy bees, the jet boat (hamilton jet), Richard Pearse "might" have (flew his homemade aircraft even before the Wright Brothers took off), number 8 wire, the britten motorcycle. spinnanz

[edit] NZ or AUS

Tell you wahat, how about if we get Crowded house, we let the Aussies claim Russell Crowe ;-).

They can have Joh Bjelke-Peterson as a bonus, if they like. Grutness...wha? 08:25, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Any comments about the origin of pavlova which are nationalist in tone, or which are not genuine attempts to improve the article, will be removed.-gadfium 03:47, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

--I wonder if we should have a rivalry page to list the things contested between Aussie and New Zealand?

Pav, obviously,

Phar Lap

Split Enz

Crowded House

Jandals/Flip Flops

...and every second touring car driver in both countries.

Russell Crowe and Joh Bjelke-Peterson can fit in a sub catergory, where each nation blames the other.

[edit] Toppings

I have never encountered or heard of a pavlova topped with anything except cream and fruit until reading this article. I would like to see a reference for the claim that Peppermint Crisp is a popular pavlova topping in Australia

Ive seen the peppermint crisp topping quite a few times, though honestly, strawberry and kiwi fruit are the most common toppings in my experience. I think its just one of those things that people experiment with just to try and be a little different. Simply because you havent seen it doesnt mean it doesnt happen. Ive also seen peppermint crisp used on cheesecake and cake also.

[edit] Cornflour

I fully agree with Moriori that at least one very common pav recipe has cornflour in it. The one pav I've made was from the Edmonds Cookbook and that definitely had cornflour. It's what makes the meringue on the inside gooey rather than crisp, I think. If the Aussies sort out which book is their domestic bible, it would be good to cite both the main Aussie and Kiwi versions. --Tirana 22:08, 1 November 2006 (UTC)