Talk:Oceanography

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Contents 1 International history 1.1 Exploring Sea Lanes of Communicaton 2 British federalism 3 Clean 4 Plan of Action 4.1 Request to merge 5 Two Requests for Help 6 Chemical oceanography 7 Removing template (Global Bias et. al.) 7.1 Wiki-Mirror Site Disclosures? 8 Add Smithsonian Education link? 9 Lovelock an oceanographer ? 10 Marine Biology vs Biological Oceanography 11 Meteorologic oceanography

[edit] International history

It would be nice to have more of an international perspective on the history of Oceanography (e.g. how does Britain or Australia approach Oceanography? Do they have grant sytems? Major scientific stations?). Also, a technical overview of the science would be nice.

• First (briefly) yes, there are Federal grants to support oceanography in Britain and every major country. Most basic oceanography is "basic science," and requires either a federal grant or a very rich oceanographer.

• I notice that most of your oceanography links are to Woods Hole or to Scripps. Those are great places. You might also add links to a host of other institutions, many of which are given on following web page on the lower section:
• ... http://gulf.ocean.fsu.edu <- (InOp GulfLink-URL)

• warning: several of the links on the top half of the page (to specific projects) are no longer working, as that programmer moved away and has not yet been replaced.

[edit] Exploring Sea Lanes of Communicaton

The knarr was less reliant on oars as a means of propulsion and more on the use of sails.

>>The knarr is a merchant vessel with a large cargo carrying capacity.
The replica Saga Siglar of Norway made a circumnavigation of the globe, but was lost in a hurricane in the Mediterranean Sea.
Snorri of USA voyaged from Greenland to Newfoundland.<< Source: Viking Ships

>>The 11th century wreck found at Skuldedev in Denmark’s Roskilde fjord is often adduced as a superior example: probably a Greenland knarr, a custom-built vessel designed for Atlantic crossings, the ship is thought to have had a cargo capacity of 12 or 13 tons, and served as the model for the replica Saga Siglar, which sailed around the world in the 1980s.<< Source: NorwayOnline

[edit] British federalism

Does the word "federal" make sense when applied to Britain? -- Mike Hardy

[edit] Clean

Added Clean Status ... geological oceanography, which is marine geology, line produces self-referenced loop...

(So much for my kid's eigth grade SCIENCE PROJECT and my ability to impress him with Wiki!!!) <G> Fabartus 18:27, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)~

Modified Oceanography Clean Status to reflect revisions since June 2005 <G>
RJBurkhart 13:15, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plan of Action

Here is a proposed plan to make the article better.

Introduction: Shorten the introduction to a description of oceanography and what oceanographers do.

Branches: Move the present section on the branches of oceanography into a separate part and extend the description of each.

History of Oceanography: Included a timeline for oceanography

Present issues and theories: Included several issues such as effects of global warming on the oceans, pollution and the deep sea drilling projects etc.

Famous Oceanographers: Small section with the most notable oceanographers.

Wikipedia links: links to other articles with a link to the ocean and other subjects.

External Links and resources: List of links to societies and oceanography centres

AlexD 09:30, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Request to merge

I have requested the merging of the chemical and physical oceanography entries into the oceanography article as the entries are not informative enough and would provided more information when viewed in with the whole article on oceanography.

AlexD 14:41, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Hmm... silence. Anyway, if the nom. for Wikipedia:Science collaboration of the week for Physical oceanography is adopted then that article should see improvement and stay as a stand alone article. Seems that the chemical oceanography article could easily be merged with it rather than here. Keep this an introductory overview. Vsmith 01:03, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

The amount of content available to the physical oceanography article exceeds the limitations of Wikipedia's individual article size standards. If there is anything to oppose, I oppose such a merge. Oceanography should really only serve as an overview of oceanography as a whole whereas the individual articles physical oceanography, biological oceanography, chemical oceanography, etc., should remain standalone to serve as further elaborations on the topic of oceanography. These other articles do have enough content available for use. There just doesn't seem to be a great interest in oceanography here in Wikipedia. Adraeus 12:39, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Expansion is planned for physical oceanography. Merging doesn't seem necessary. Deryck C. - the very original one

Deryck C. - the esperanza-enriched one 14:55, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Two Requests for Help

Hello - I have two articles I could really use some help on - both of which have some relation to Oceanography.

1. In the process of working on Hurricane Katrina, I came across the term Atlantic Basin. I've seen that term defined in different ways in different sources, but I can't find a source I would consider definitive as to what bodies or water are/are-not included in its definition.
2. Also, at United States, we say that the Territorial waters of the United States border the Bahamas and Russia. Since territorial waters extend 12 miles from a nations coast, and since the bodies of water seperating the US from each of those countries seem to be bigger than 24 miles, I am uncertain of this claims veracity. However, it is possible there is some little bitty island that does not appear on my maps, which would push out the limit. Can anyone find worthwhile sources? Johntex 21:25, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

• 1. Atlantic Ocean seems to have a map with its basin shaded in darker blue. Your web browser can probably search on the page for the word "basin". (SEWilco 05:17, 31 August 2005 (UTC))

Hi SEWilco, Yes, I have seen that we have that map on our article, but we give no source for it, so I can't be confident it is actually correct. (It wouldn't be the first time a mistake has made it into Wikipedia, and it may be that there is a fine nuance between the two terms) Johntex 15:27, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

• 1. Territorial waters extend 12 nautical miles. Geography of the United States says there are 12, 24, and 200 mile claims. CIA World Factbook for Bahamas says "have not been able to agree on the alignment of a maritime boundary with the US", so whatever the details there apparently is enough proximity of the boundaries that it is relevant to both countries. I don't know the situation with Russia, although Extreme points of the United States shows a western US island which may be an issue. (SEWilco 05:17, 31 August 2005 (UTC))

Thanks SEWilco - this is helpful information. Johntex 15:27, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

The Atlantic basin is defined by the NHC as a region of tropical cyclone formation. — jdorje (talk) 09:19, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chemical oceanography

Chemical oceanography is linked to in the Branches of Oceanography section. Is it really necessary to have a separate section called Chemical Oceanography, or can this section be removed? Punkmorten 14:24, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Fixed. Reverted bold merge with no consensus. Vsmith 14:57, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removing template (Global Bias et. al.)

• Today I boldly removed
  The examples and perspective in this article or section may not represent a worldwide view.
  Please improve the article or discuss the issue on the talk page.
  (globalize template— as an improvement!) as I cannot even find when it was installed or by whom. There needs to be a talk note when this kind of unilateral decision occurs so it can be discussed if need be (like this one). The article is 'trashed' by it's inclusion, and all due respect to the anti-systemic Bias folks, but you're chasing an unreachable ideal.
• While non-anglophile content might be worthwhile EVENTUALLY, if you go around placing this sort of template tag on every article it applies to (e.g. history of various battles, history in general), Wiki will never get any useful work out of you and will be cluttered by crappy boxes like this one suggesting to casual readers that wiki is UNTRUSTWORTHY. I really don't think that's the message we want to be sending. Additional input does not invalidate what is already in the article. It can be internationalized when some international input is added, if ever. IMHO, this template and Clean and NPOV etc. properly belong on TALK pages, not Article pages. Why create mistrust?

FrankB 00:43, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

• As a follow on to the above, after just re-reading the article, surely someone in the field can consult with some professional journals and fill in the lists of institutions offering/specializing in Oceanographic research beyond those in the USA and Britain (Which probably has more than one???). Heck - make it an 'extra-credit' project for an undergrad needing a few more points! FrankB 17:42, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

FrankB - Mahlo for kudos & BOLD removal comments about having an inteim gloabl bias note!

-- RJBurkhart 14:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wiki-Mirror Site Disclosures?

Unable to find full & fair disclosures about commercial Wikipedia mirror sites.

Argo (oceanography)

Article from FactBug.org with quick search for Wikipedia content

... The fast Wikipedia mirror site with quick search. ...

• Oceanography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

• digg search With wiki-mirror.be
  • Launched Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:24:43 GMT

RJBurkhart 15:48, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Add Smithsonian Education link?

Hello! I am a writer for the Smithsonian's Center for Education, which publishes Smithsonian in Your Classroom, a magazine for teachers. An online version of an issue titled "Contrasts in Blue: Life on the Caribbean Coral Reef and the Rocky Coast of Maine" is available for free at this address:

http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/educators/lesson_plans/contrast/cover.html

It includes a background essay and lesson plans. If you think the audience would find this valuable, I wish to invite you to include it as an external link. We would be most grateful.

Thank you so much for your attention

Added during external links categorization using DIKW classification process.

* Exploring Marine Ecosystems - Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History permanent exhibit
-- geoWIZard-Passports 09:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lovelock an oceanographer ?

Although Lovelock contribution to earth sciences is to say the least controversial, one thing is sure : he is not an oceanographer. If you go to his biography, you find no trace of real oceanography, i.e. going to sea and studying it... So I would propose to remove his name from the Oceanographer list --Daniel Vaulot 18:28, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

As a knowledge management social engineer, Lovelock contributed to NASA's bioneering memes about interdependence that were advanced by notable US Navy oceanographers - Matthew F. Maury and Homer A. McCrerey
--geoWIZard-Passports 08:52, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Lovelock also challenged underlying earth science assumptions about cumulative impacts of chemicals on our biosphere
--geoWIZard-Passports 09:01, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I think his contributions are clearly more at the global earth level (biogeochemical cycles) than as an oceanographer. A biosphere scientist, not an oceanographer... --Daniel Vaulot 10:12, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Sir James Lovelock is Marine Biological Association (MBA) President:

... MBA has diversified its educational, communication and public understanding of science activities ...

Please review and reconsider FULL description overview of this topic:

Oceanographers study a wide range of topics such as plate tectonics to ocean currents to marine organisms ... reflect(ing) multiple disciplines that oceanographers blend to help us understand Earth's INTERdependencies:
biology, chemistry, geology, meteorology, and physics. -- geoWIZard-Passports 21:38, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

With such a broad definition you could also define any atmospheric or terrestrial scientist as an oceanographer... Scientific disciplines have boundaries and connections. It is critical to set clearly where the boundaries are, as well as important to be aware and develop connections. The primary focus of an oceanographer should be the ocean, not the global earth... Mixing everything in a single bag, does not help anyone.--Daniel Vaulot 06:15, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Sir James Lovelock (NASA Biosphere) - removed from list -- geoWIZard-Passports 23:48, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

In his recent book (The Revenge of Gaia), Lovelock cites a future history novel (State of Fear) as an example of Forecasts for the Twenty-first Century ... The public is much more likely to be influenced by writers like Michael Crighton than they are by scientists.(p.48) --geoWIZard-Passports 20:49, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marine Biology vs Biological Oceanography

There is in my opinion an important difference between Marine Biology and Biological Oceanography.

• Marine Biology is the study of marine organisms, often completely out the ocean context. For exemple people that are studying the division of the sea urchin egg in order to understand the fundamental processes of cell division are marine biologists (typically this the sense used in the name of Marine Biological Laboratory in Woods Hole).
• In contrat, Biological Oceanography is the study of the biological component of the ocean in context, and in particular in relation with other environmental factors such as light, nutrients and ocean physics.

So I would propose this distinction be implemented in the article, or rather just to indicate Biological Oceanography. It is very unfortunate that Biological Oceanography article redirects to Marine Biology.--Daniel Vaulot 18:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Marine ecology met the same fate ... prevailing usage directs which term takes precedence.
-- geoWIZard-Passports 00:21, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Meteorologic oceanography

Google for "Meteorological oceanography/Meteorologic oceanography" gives a miniscule number of non-wikipeidic references, so I guess hardly it is an established separate discipline. As I see, supposedly its topics are discussed in Physical oceanography#Ocean - atmosphere interface, so I guess the classification into "main branches" given here is also suspicious. I noticed that the term was in-article piped to oceanography or to Meteorology, so its strange (non)existence was missed (that's why I hate link-piping of terms).

Something must be done with this term. Where are solid references about it? Experts, what is your opinion? `'mikkanarxi 01:41, 18 November 2006 (UTC)