Talk:Niseko, Hokkaidō

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[edit] Linkspamming

Looks like commercial rivalries in Niseko are spilling over into wikipedia. Noting growing numbers of changes to hotel links etc by new anonymous users. I've attempted to fix this by removing links to the hotels in question completely, which don't add greatly to the article anyway. But as the page is becoming spam bait, any neutral users that can patrol changes greatly welcomed.--Saganaki- 13:55, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

How does my ski diary count as commercial linkspam? (Was listed under external links as: Niseko Ski Diary, with pictures and descriptions from a ski holiday in Niseko.) Just so know, I'm not selling anything, nor do I benefit if anyone buys anything, nor do I have any commercial interest in who they stay with or travel with, so by definition I simply cannot have a "commercial rivalry". And what's more I have links to all of the major ski tour operators as a convenience to the reader (hardly something someone with a commercial interest in an particular operator would do). By definition though I'm not neutral about myself (which is why others should judge whether to re-add the link), and I also don't know that I have a particularly neutral POV on Niseko (since I was only there for a holiday, and I had a great time, so naturally I have a good impression of the place, whereas locals possibly sometimes get annoyed at all the overseas visitors). Anyway if you want to remove the link on the basis that you think the diary is crap, or there are better diaries, or you don't think any readers want to know what skiing in Niseko was like for an overseas visitor, or you think a diary about skiing in Niseko is not relevant to Niseko, well, any of those I'll understand and accept, but just please don't miscategorize it is as commercial linkspam. -- All the best, Nickj (t) 06:18, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Nick, I didn't remove your diary because I thought it was linkspam, or because its not a good diary but because it seems to be wikipedia policy (you could prove me wrong here) to not to link to blogs or diaries because its an encyclopedia. If you like, I could try and get some more readers to take a look at this comment and organise a debate. Cheers --Saganaki- 06:28, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Saganaki-, No worries, there's so many guidelines and policies it's kind of hard for me to keep up! From Wikipedia:External links, it says "Blogs, social networking sites (such as MySpace) and forums should generally not be linked to unless mandated by the article itself". I'm not sure that a travel diary of the place that the article is about meets that criteria. However it does say that you shouldn't link to a "website that you own or maintain, even if the guidelines above imply that it should be linked to ... let other neutral Wikipedia editors decide whether to add the link", and that's something I now know that I did incorrectly. So yourself and others are the only ones who can decide whether the link is relevant. -- All the best, Nickj (t) 07:01, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

"unless mandated by the article itself" I think that's referring to articles actually about blogs or where the blog itself is part of the story (eg some blog famous for leaking links about which politicans like to dress up in arsenal football kit and get spanked by a big hairy woman called dave). BTW if you make it down around in Esashi, give flick me a note. Cheers Saganaki- 07:14, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Saganaki-, I am also wondering how the link I added gets categorized by you as spam. The site in question is a non-profit english information site on Niseko, more relevant than the other links that you don't regard as spam. We make no money from anyone. I live here in Niseko and think the site is a valid source of information.... Anyway, I'm just curious to hear your criteria for what you regard spam links as ..... regards zoop

Hi Zoop. Don't think there's anything wrong with the site, but I think its more suitable for wikitravel. Wikipedia itself is supposed to be an encyclopedia so the external links should be authoritative and official. (Please let me know if you think I'm reading the policies wrong and we can get some views from others). The Niseko article has a long way to go before it has the feel of an encylopeida entry for sure (still reads a bit like a ski-brochure) so feel like doing some editing? For example, get some facts down about history etc. Doesn't look like there's an entry in wikitravel either if you want to try your hand a spot of travel writing. Be the first...CheersSaganaki- 06:49, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Saganaki. How about this one... the site in mention has a good summary of historical weather conditions throughout the year for the Niseko area... you could add that to the weather section of the article. It would make it more informative and less brouchure like.. If you think it is relevant (or want to copy the data over) here is the link link.. I'll hava a look at trying to find some historical information relating to Niseko.. regards zoop

[edit] How the page should look

I'd suggest that any newcomers who are interested in editing this page take a look at the Davos page. Davos is a ski-resort in Switzerland and its wikipedia page looks like more like a page from an encyclopedia. Contrast that with the Davos wikitravel page which is designed as a guide for visitors and travellers. Cheers --Saganaki- 04:37, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

That's a fine example. I've done a bit to try to cut down on the tourist info, but I don't want to blank half the article - there are some things in there that, if reworded a little, could be perfectly valid encyclopedic information. So, I won't be making too drastic edits; but I will help keep an eye on this for you. Ganbare! LordAmeth 09:21, 30 October 2006 (UTC)