Talk:Ne Win
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[edit] His Resignation
Ne Win suddenly resigned because 8 was his lucky number (August 8 1988=8/8/88).
Why does one resign because 8 is his lucky number?! I can't believe this is all...Pascal 23:27, 20 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- The date of the resignation has been revised to 23 July 1988 by User:161.142.87.2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ne_Win&diff=prev&oldid=18955095). It's no longer 1988-8-8. -- PFHLai 03:52, 2005 August 7 (UTC)
This is Ne Win we are talking about though...
PMelvilleAustin 06:03, Oct 21, 2003 (UTC)
I have a complete article on Ne Win that I never managed to get published. Now that doesn't matter, because I discovered Wikipedia. But how do I link my article too? Or do I merge it or something? Philologus 17:15, Apr 2, 2004 (UTC)
Feel free to edit any NPOV knowledge you have into the article... --Cruci 22:16, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Assassination
On this page, it says the British assasinanted Aung San. On another page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aung_San, it says it was a rival. Who was it???
In response to the confusion, I'm removing the accusation toward the British and am inserting a "hedged" replacement to reflect the apparent lack of certainty. It all sounds rather dubious to me. Replacement text:
Aung San was assassinated in 1947; U Saw, a former Prime Minister and political rival of Aung San, was found guilty of the crime and executed. However, there are also suggestions that the assassination was carried out by the British.
--Cruci 22:14, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I've edited out the sentence raising the idea that there may have been official British involvement in Aung San's assassination. The most authoritative account of which I'm aware is U Kin Oung's "Who Killed Aung San?" (White Lotus, Bangkok, 2nd edition 1996 - a revised 3rd edition is due out sometime soon). KO finds that the assassination was carried out by followers of U Saw, acting on his orders (which is identical with the findings of the trial and not really in question). He also finds that several low-ranking British army officers (majors and captains) sold U Saw his weapony - largly because they were involved in black market arms dealing and would have sold anything to anyone. OK finds no involvement by the British above this ad hoc group of quite junior people. He examines, and finds more plausible, the idea of some form of involvement by Ne Win - but the evidence isn't strong.
The idea of official British involvement was popularised by a BBC documentary broadcast on the 50th anniversary of the assassination, but it's no more than a theory, and not a very convincing one. If the Wiki article is about facts, rather than conjectures, it has no place here. PiCo 00:41, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Ne Win's resignation
Ne Win's resignation: It's not true that 8, or 8.8.88, or any other combination of 8, was Ne Win's lucky number. His lucky number was 9 - hence all those strange currency notes that added up to nine (45 kyat note, 90 kyat note...). It would be quite plausible for him to resign because of the date, but in this case, no.
Now let's see if I can add a signature... PiCo 03:16, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] source - "at the time of writing"
because wikipedia is an electronic database there's no need to state "...Sandar Win, who as of time of writing, is still under house arrest." it sounds like someone took this from a printed article. (copywright?)
[edit] Chinese name
Someone added that his Chinese name was 钟秀明. However, I have been unable to verify this, and according to Google searches for Chinese pages on him, he is usually referred to in the Chinese language as 奈温, and even the Chinese Wikipedia shows the latter. To whomever added the former: please indicate where you got that information. --TML1988 04:20, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure whether those characters represent Ne Win's Chinese name because the phonology and naming pattern seem correct. Burmese Chinese often Burmanise their names to cover Chinese ties. Ne Win's birth name was "Shu Maung". "Shu" in Burmese is often used to phonologically represent "秀" and similar variants while "Maung" or "Myint" is used for "明" and similar variants. There are certain Chinese names that have Burmese "equivalents", such as "瑞" (pronounced "sui" in Hakka and other Southern Chinese dialects) is commonly Burmanised as "shwe" or "swe", and is often an indicator of one's Chinese heritage. Shu Maung changed his name in part to cover his Chinese identity, so 奈温 is more widely used because it represents the name he adopted. I'll try to find documentation on Chinese-Burmese publications on Ne Win's life. Hintha 02:23, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Ne Win wasn't Chinese, not everybody who lives in a country near China is Chinese. Many people have Chinese versions of their names, G W Bush has a Chinese name, the Chinese don't just stop using their characters and pronouciation because people aren't Chinese. Theonlyzarni 11/3/06 3:50 GMT
- Ne Win was indeed Chinese, with his father of Hokkien ancestry (from Fujian Province). Ne Win was a kabya, denoting that his mother was of Bamar blood, and his father was of Chinese blood. Time [1] confirms this, stating "Ne Win was a child of mixed Chinese-Burmese descent." However, Ne Win denied his Chinese ancestry, and remained low-key regarding his ancestry. Hintha 01:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
- The article currently has him labeled Hakka. There are certainly long-established Hakka people in Fujian, with their own distinctive dialects, so this is not necessarily inconsistent. Could you confirm that his father's side was Hakka from Fujian? A-giau 08:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Do you even know what the word 'Kabya' means? I guess you better inform everone that it now means half Chinese. I did not know Wikipedia allowed you to change the meanings of words. Well I change what Hintha means, certainly son of 'something' I'll leave it to your imagination. As for the 'Time' article, it certainly doesn't mince its words does it? Reading it you would believe there is only 1 side to the Ne Win story, well for some people there is only 1 side to every story. People know that 'Time' magazine does not offer the most impartial of news articles. There are many articles about General Ne Win on the internet, from reading them all would leave your head spinning with the difference in stories. He was never low-key about his ancestry, he was Burmese and stated this on many occassions. Just because some people believe something else does not make it true. Theonlyzarni 13/3/06 20:30 GMT
- I disagree with your arguments, although valid. Kabya is defined as a person who is composed of two ethnic groups, with one being Bamar (Burman). So, kabya, in essence, is not specifically used for those of Chinese-Bamar blood and encompasses many other ethnic groups. Furthermore, many obituaries of Ne Win, including that of the Financial Times (5 December 2002) clearly state he was indeed Bamar (Burman) and Chinese. The SAAS (South Asia Analysis Group), a think tank, also acknowledges this fact. Ne Win denied his Chinese heritage, according to the Irrawaddy (16 September 2003), because of prevailing attitudes toward the Chinese during that era. Ne Win used the Chinese and other "immigrant" ethnic groups as scapegoats in order to retain power and control (and could not do so, which would be hypocritical, in helping to fuel anti-Chinese riots in the late 1960s, whilst publicly acknowledging his Chinese background). This is also supported in underground newspapers written in Chinese in Rangoon during that period in time. Chinese clan association publications, including Longxi Tang explicitly state his ethnic composition. Burmese government media is not reliable, because of its lack of neutrality. It would be terribly difficult to find a news source that would be completely impartial. Also, "Burmese" is commonly mistaken to refer to the Bamar ethnic group, but in actuality, is used to describe the nationality. (Hence, it would be redundant to use Burmese when the article already states Ne Win was from Burma.) There is documentation, if you will. There is also consensus among the Burmese of Myanmar that Ne Win did have Chinese blood. It is a widely known fact that needs not be distorted.
- And, I'm just wondering, but what gain would TIME have if it wrote that Ne Win was Chinese? It's obvious that "not everybody who lives in a country near China is Chinese", but some were ethnically Chinese, like Thaksin Shinawatra, the current PM of Thailand. Although he is only 1/8 Chinese, he still describes himself as a Chinese-Thai and has a Chinese name, because the Chinese are well-integrated into Thai society. Hintha 00:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
General Ne Win was fully Burmese, what better source than from the man himself? While there is a source that claims he had Chinese roots I do not believe that they should be listed as 'fact' as you try to do, what I would call vandalism. The discussion of his roots belongs on this, the discussion page, link your little books here and be happy. The facts belong on the main page. You put the 'discussion' as fact on the main article, which I believe is counter productive. As a wiki gnome and whatever else you call yourself, you should realise that points of discussion belong here. I hope you understand the meaning of discussion. theonlyzarni
- In an academic journal (yet another publication) about modern Asian affairs published by the University of California (Asian Survey [2]), an article written by Mya Maung states "The Chinese ancestry of Ne Win is a very sore and secret point for the dictator." Hintha 02:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Ne Win's ancestry traces back to the kings and queens during Burma's Golden Age. Just like America had plots to bring down Castro (one of the considered ideas was to poison him to make him lose his beard) People would like to discredit men of power by any means, because they could not directly discredit them or take their power. This 'Chinese Ancestry' conspiracy has been around for some time, Ne Win's opposition has used this conspiracy to try undermine his name for many years, without any success. Now that Ne Win has passed away, it is time for people to spread the false information again. For those who also believe that 9/11 & JFK was a US government plot and that the moon landings occured in a studio, this is like golddust. History is written by the victors, I am here to make sure the truth is still represented by those who do not have the power, no matter how (un)important the site. The truth and the peoples voice will be heard. Burma the story online is a whole different story in reality. Theonlyzarni 16:42, 14 July 2006 (GMT)
- Would you care to back up your claim that Ne Win's ancestry traces back to the kings and queens, no less, of Burma? I hope it's not a sick joke or a really lame attempt at rewriting history. Who cares if he was half Chinese? A lot of urban Burmese have a dash of Chinese blood if not half and half. It's certainly not a stigma; a kabya is just a descriptive term. Burmese kings regularly took captives back to their capital and did not bother about racial purity. It's only in relatively recent times from colonial rule and its consequences that race and Bamar hsan gyin (Burmeseness) have been an issue. By the same token, modernity and globalisation are real issues throughout the Third World. If a kabya, or for that matter a total non-Bamar, makes an effort to blend in and does not display a superiority complex and look down on the Bamar they are treated as any other Bamar. Wagaung 19:07, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Wagaung, I would not be the only person to say that the only lame thing is your mothers claim of who your real father is, seeing as your mothers bedroom door is revolving I would suspect you to be the joke. It would have to be a 'half' that says that half people are no issue, they are not. The only problem is when stating that someone 100% Burmese is half Chinese, it would be no problem if he was.... only he isn't. Sorry to wake you up. There's NO problem with your half blood, I told your sister she was fine, now I'm telling you..... do you understand? Special schools in America, do they work? I wonder.... There is no issue with superiority, it's the issue of truth my 'friend', please ask your sister to write for you, she has a greater understanding of the... issues shall we say Theonlyzarni 01:31, 15 July 2006 (UTC)]
- My great great grand parents were among the first Mandalayans at the founding of the city, and it's tragic when people let their own side down. Xenophobia affects everyone and every race up to a point; it's the extent of ignorance and the degree of nastiness which is the real problem. Wagaung 12:34, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Oh mr theonlyzarni, how stupid we have all been. Of course Ne Win must be pure-blood Burmese because he said so himself and everything he said was always true. I've been trying to tell people for years that I'm a six-foot tall, blond German. A Hitler 14:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
