Talk:Myanmar

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Archives
March 2003 – July 2006

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Contents 1 Suggestion for new Intro 2 Citation spot check 3 Citation spot check 4 Health Spending 5 Military Units in the second world war 6 Human Rights in Myanmar 7 "That may play in the sticks, but this is Capital City" 8 Requested move 8.1 Survey 8.2 Discussion 9 pronunciation

[edit] Suggestion for new Intro

Myanmar, officially the Union of Myanmar, is the largest country in geographical area in mainland Southeast Asia. Also known as Burma or the Union of Burma by bodies and states which do not recognize the ruling military junta, it is bordered by China on the north, Laos on the east, Thailand on the southeast, Bangladesh on the west, and India on the northwest, with the Andaman Sea to the south, and the Bay of Bengal to the southwest. There are over 2,000 kilometres (1,243 mi) of coastline. The country was ruled by a military junta led by General Ne Win from 1962 to 1988, and its political system remains under the tight control of the State Peace and Development Council, its military government, led by Senior General Than Shwe since 1992.

The guidelines for a "Good Article" say that the intro should briefly summarize the whole article. To that end, I suggest that we also add a second paragraph to this intro, briefly mentioning the long history, many and varied ethnic groups and the present-day domination of the Bamar as a segway into the "Origin and history of the name" section. Maybe something like:

Myanmar is populated by a variety of different ethnic and linguistic groups that have all, at various times in its long history, contributed to the richness of the culture. However, shortly after gaining independence from the United Kingdom in 1948, the Bamar took control of the government and have dominated all areas of life in Myanmar.

It probably needs some work and rewording but I think it is a good idea. What does everybody else think?--WilliamThweatt 04:04, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I have incorporated the changes to the intro paragraph as they were mostly minor changes. I will wait for comment before attempting to add a second paragraph to the intro.--WilliamThweatt 18:31, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

The minor changes are good. I've used your ideas and expanded them in the second paragraph. I've also moved the info. about the government and merged them into the second paragraph. Hintha 06:40, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation spot check

[edit] Citation spot check

As part of this project, I randomly checked a few footnotes from this article. Results were as follows:

1. Footnote 3(a)/4. "Major news organisations such as the BBC and western governments, including those of the United States and the United Kingdom, still officially refer to the country as Burma."
   • So-so. From Sites: "Although the SPDC changed the name of the country to "Myanmar," the democratically elected but not convened Parliament of 1990 does not recognize the name change, and the democratic opposition maintains use of the name "Burma." Due to consistent, unyielding support for the democratically elected leaders, the U.S. Government likewise uses "Burma.""; " Britain's policy is to refer to Burma rather than 'Myanmar'. It is the form preferred by the leaders of Burma's democracy movement, the legitimate winners of the 1990 elections, who do not accept that the unelected military regime has the right to change the official name of the country."
     • This supports the US and Britain claims, but does not mention news agencies. No source is given for the news organizations that do use Myanmar. Case by case citations of states or organizations' policies is, in any event, less than ideal; could a secondary source that discusses the varying uses possibly be found?
2. Footnote 13. "Many major political parties, particularly the National League for Democracy, have been excluded, and little progress has been made."
   • So-so. From site:"The junta expels all of the NLD delegates." The "little progress" statement is clearly supported as of this article's publication in March 2004, but a more recent article would be a better source for this statement.
3. Footnote 26/27. "Dramatic change in the country's political situation remains unlikely, due to support from major regional powers, in particular China."
   • Problem. Both of these articles discuss Burma's close ties to China, but neither specifically discusses this aspect of the relationship. One article states "Second, China’s armed support may lead to militarization of the military junta who may be reluctant to contemplate political reforms which are necessary for economic development.", but it goes on to describe liberalization of Burma's regime as a relative certainty. In any event, this statement is an opinion, and should be stated as such (Scholars X and Y assert that...), with appropriate sources.
4. Footnote 40. "His administration adopted the Two-Year Economic Development Plan, which was a failure."
   • Checks out. "The Eight-Year Plan was a failure both in the sense of having failed to achieve its targets and also in that it diverted resources away from achievable goals."
5. Footnote 70. "Since the 1950s, westernised music has gained popularity, especially in large cities."
   • Problem. From site: "But young people are increasingly allured by the temptation of western pop culture that still seeps into this isolated nation through pirated videos and CDs, as well as on satellite music stations."
     • Touches on the popularity of Western music with the young, but nothing about the 1950s being the start point or large cities being the center of the phenomenon.

This seems to suffer to some degree from the great plague of Wikipedia citations--referring to sources that are related to but do not directly support the article's statements. It isn't a terribly severe case, but someone needs to sweep through and make sure that all statements needing citation are cited to a source that directly supports what the article says. --Robth^Talk 05:11, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Health Spending

I watched a short investigative documentary on Burma and the Regime tonight, and would like to include a fact mentioned there, that Burma spends less on health care than any other country in the world, and accordingly the health of the population suffers. I'm not entirely sure on the best place in the article for this, anyone like to advise? Thanks. 82.10.65.30 02:56, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Military Units in the second world war

I've made a bunch of corrections to the section covering WWII. First, the Karen Rifles were not involved in fighting the Japanese. While the unit was formed in 1945, it did not take the field until after the war was over. The same would be true for the Kachin Rifles (which were not mentioned). The Karens who participated in the 1945 uprising had been armed by British SOE teams as had many other groups in Burma. They can nomially be called Karen Levies, but no force called "Karen Levies" existed in 1944-1945 as far as I know. (there were Karen Levies in 1942 however).

First Burma Division was mentioned but Burma Rifles is more appropriate. The Burma Rifles were in continuous existance during the war (though only one battalion in strength after 1942).

The force that fought with the Japanese in 1942 was the Burma Independence Army. That force was followed by the Burma Defense Army and the Burma National Army in succession. The Japanese also created sub-forces in the border areas. In Arakan there was the Arakan Defense/National Army and there was the Chin Defense Force (I think that was the name) in the Chin Hills. The Arakan forces of the Japanese went over to the allies before the BNA did.

The British gave the Americans a sector of Northern Burma and allowed them to recruit Kachins in the area. They became the Kachin Rangers late in the war. But its generally wrong to say that all Kachins who fought with the Americans were part of the Kachin Rangers.

168.127.0.51 18:05, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Human Rights in Myanmar

I have created a seperate heading for this as is found the in DPRK and Iran articles given that the lack of respect for any form of human rights in Burma. A seperate section would highlight this whereas as it is currently subsumed under the "politics" section it is not immediatly obvious Cxk271 10:56, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "That may play in the sticks, but this is Capital City"

What's the deal with the capital? Editors keep switching it back and forth from Yangon to Naypyidaw. The only source I've seen other than Wikipedia that claims a change of capital is this Chinese "People's Daily". Does anyone have a cite for this from a more reliable source? L0b0t 06:30, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The Guardian provides an article ([1]) as does BBC News ([2]). There are many other articles if you search "Pyinmana", "Naypyidaw" or "Nay Pyi Taw". I believe anonymous editors keep on reverting the capital back to Yangon because of a bias (favouring the stances of western countries, and the exiled government) because they believe the current government is illegitimate, although it has jurisdiction within the country. --Hintha 22:04, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Myanmar/Burma → Myanmar – An editor came along and unilaterally moved it from "Myanmar" to "Myanmar/Burma" without discussion. This move has been discussed many times over the history of the page and the consensus has always been to keep it at "Myanmar" since this is the official name of the country and including "Burma" in the pagename would reflect a POV bias. I can't change it back myself because "Myanmar" became a redirect when it was moved. WilliamThweatt 14:36, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Support - Myanmar is the official name of the country and it is only called Burma by some in the US and the UK where even media organizations are beginning to refer to the country as Burma.
• Speedy close, and move back - an RM re-vote is not needed to restore a consensus that has lasted a long time, especially as this move was made wholly without discussion. Get an admin to move it back to Myanmar now, and if the editors wish to change that situation they can go through WP:RM Aquilina 14:45, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
• Support per nom and Aquilina.--Húsönd 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
• Support per above. -- Evertype·✆ 16:07, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per intro. BTW, I really dislike false claims of a "re-vote" . Gene Nygaard 17:40, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
• Move. Its still recognised as Burma in the countries that dont recognise the military junta.Infact even within the country its mostly called Burma and throughout most of its history it been called Burma.And why should we support the miliatary junta.POV i know,but forgot about the wikipedia police.I say Myanmar/Burma. DERMO 17:33, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

• I moved this as a speedy, given that there had already been extensive discussion of the naming issue and there had been no new discussion in support of the recent move. older ≠ wiser 14:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] pronunciation

Could someone please change the pronunciation guide to IPA, or else add a link to whatever system is used currently? As it is, the pronunciation key doesn't help.--345Kai 12:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC)