Talk:MiniDisc
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[edit] Merged Page Histories
Merged page histories after an improper cut and paste move of the article. -- Mic 20:37, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Link to UMDs
I was wondering if there should be a link between this article and the UMD article in order to prevent confusion. (?)
[edit] Data Rates
Sony do appear to have made some strange decisions with their MD devices, and their marketing strategy (which includes some peculiar views of digital rights management - DRM, and compatibility with other formats such as MP3, WMA etc.), though taken in historical context these may be perfectly reasonable. The lack of an intermediate data rate encoder on the new Hi-MD devices does seem unfortunate, but on the other hand if you look at the specifications when recording in Hi-SP (256) mode 160 minutes of recording is available on a reformatted minidisc, which is exactly the same as for LP2 (132 - ATRAC3) recording on the same type of discs - though this is only available on an MDLP player. If Hi-MD discs are used then the time available goes up to 475 minutes. The cost of the Hi-MD discs may be an issue, though I believe it is possible to get them at prices which are not much higher than standard MDs.
I'm also not quite sure - but it seems that there might be several types of Hi-MD discs - original (thick) and newer (thin). Is this worth writing about? Does it matter?
One thing I don't yet know - is it possible to use a Hi-MD recorder to generate a standard format MD?
Compatibility issues are perhaps something Sony hasn't fully worked out - but then, maybe they have.
Does anyone wish to update this article, or the Minidisc article to reflect this? David Martland 10:10, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
PS: Is a fairer comparison with Hi-SP 256 (ATRAC3plus) which is available on Hi-MD machines - using Hi-MD formatted discs with SP 292 (ATRAC? Both should have similar quality, but the Hi-SP 256 mode gives 160 minutes compared with 80 minutes on a standard (normally formatted) MD.
There are interesting and relevant articles at http://www.minidisc.org/ieee_paper.html and http://www.minidisc.org/hi-md_faq.html#_q95
Looking again at the article here, the table for HiMD does not include the modes at 160, 192 mentioned in the text above it. Mention is also made of developments for 2nd generation HiMD devices, though it's not clear what are 2nd generation. My own observations (based on a very short exposure) are that the whole thing is rather confusing. We have a Sony MZ-RH910 - is that a 2nd generation model? I'd have thought so. The SonicStage software tends to do conversions, so if I input a CD and convert to 160 kbps (which should apparently be allowed), this will still be converted to 132 kbps when transferring to the HiMD disc. My suspicion is that I'll have to input the CDs at 256kbps in order to get SonicStage to transfer it to the HiMD disc at a better quality. Whether this is something which can be fixed in the future by upgrading the SonicStage software, or something inherent in the hardware, I don't know. I have so far only managed to get MP3 encoding to work at 128kbps, and it seemed to me that the quality when doing so was quite badly compromised, with possible aliasing effects. These devices appear not to like recordings done at 48kHz sampling rates, and will recode them to 44.1kHz. David Martland 07:12, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Lossy/Lossless
So, how lossy ATRAC really is? This page says that that "... due to limitations in human hearing and perception, some sounds cannot be heard under a variety of conditions ...", - a sentence actually doesn't belong here at all, but should be in Lossy data compression. And the article at ATRAC says that its quality is comparable to that of MP3, and when tested against MP3 and OGG, ATRAC even came last. That's some contradiction.--Amir E. Aharoni 21:39, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
- I toned down the flowery talk. --KJ 03:57, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Pre-recorded Albums
The article mentions that only albums on Sony's own label were released, however a number were released by Virgin and Chrysalis; can anyone else confirm that these are record labels are not part of the sony group. In addition would it be worth having a list of albums released in minidisc format? Y control 09:46, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
- Would it be worth having a list of albums released in minidisc format - NO! Please not another list ... but a category would be fine.--Amir E. Aharoni 19:16, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] nothing very important
Ah, the MiniDisc. Good times.
LOL
Any chance of MiniDiscs becoming more widely used, or has the march of technology passed them by with the advent of flash memory? --Nerd42 02:14, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
--> thanks for your contribution (wikipedia is not a discussion board). it looks MINIDISC is back again on the market, both recorders and media. User:Akidd_dublin 20060315
[edit] NOT OBSOLETE
"As of 2006, MiniDisc is nearing the end of its life as a format and may soon be considered obsolete;"
I DO NOT THINK SO (not only because since today i am one of the mini disc people). Probably cassette tape declines- but it is very EASY to record audio cassettes.
As said in the article, it has very advantage in field recording (i.e. percussion/keyboard session). For this user group, i do not see an "End of lifetime". IMHO, the sentence (in quotation marks) needs edit. User:Akidd_dublin 20060315
Blonde2max 19:29, 26 March 2006 (UTC) Someone talk about the MZ-RH1 MDs Latest comeback
- About WP not being a discussion board: Hey, the issue I was bringing up had to do with what the article should say. If they're a failed Sony idea that history has passed by, the article should say so and possibly examine the reasons why. If they're gonna make a comeback, likewise. --Nerd42 17:04, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] little note
I'm no expert but it seems that the curie temperature point 'erases' the magnetic orientation. (see [1]) and after which the magnetic orientation can be altered easily.
[edit] MDLP
I seem to remember LP2 and LP4 (in particular) would suck the batteries on my portable MD player at about 4 times the rate as well! Did anyone else encounter this and is it worth mentioning? Bihal 05:52, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Personally, and according to Sony press releases, LP2 and 4 tend to double and quadruple playback times. Obviously this will vary, however the due to the smaller file sizes, the disc must spin less to extract the same amount of data. Decompression of the file works against these causes however. Bananatree
- I don't remember exactly the MD unit I had as I loaned it to someone and never saw it again, but, I do know from personal expierence that when running LP2 or 4 that the batteries did last longer...there were a few exceptions. The main one has to do with how fragmented your disc is. the magic of minidisc was the ability to move tracks about..it was flexable, and was amazing...and that's thanks to a hard-drive like method of wiriting the data in empty blocks and moving to more when it reaches blocks that aren't empty. So, if your disc has a lot of fragmentation, the laser running back and forth would negate the battery savings. The majorty of my MD collection was SP mode and were usually had no fragmentation. The few LP mode discs I made were also pretty much recorded all at once in order without any kind of editing. DewDude 05:23 29 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] A Marketing Trend?
For some years, minidisk recorder/player models that were convenient for field or live recordings (mic ports, etc.) were sold by several major electronics dealers, but for some time now, only the models that are usable only for use with PCs have been available--and it seems even they're being replaced by ipods, mp3 players, etc. (Sony still makes one 'field-recordable' model, but it's becoming less easy to get without mail-orders.). Therefore, I tend to believe that 'the market' has come, or is coming, to look upon the minidisc format as one that tends to appeal to a limited number of hobbyists and enthusiasts: if they want it badly enough, they'll go out of their way to get it, but they needn't bother stopping by the local audio store. Of course, this speculation is based on limited personal observations and probably needs to be verified (or modified perhaps) by users with a wider scope of knowledge on the issue.
--JWMcCalvin 05:37, 13 May 2006 (UTC)JWMcCalvin
[edit] Comments moved from article
(Not sure exactly how Personal Experience/Recommendations fit in, so if someone knows a better way to edit this, please do... It might go well on the talk page, with a pointer from what I wrote above. I'll leave it to the experts...)
As a personal recommendation, PatrickSalsbury wanted to stress the importance of the writing of the TOC track, as the very last item of business in recording.
A recent mishap underscored this for me (the first time in 5 years of using my MD), and I hope others can learn from my experience, rather than get caught by it themselves.
I usually carry a spare AA battery in my MiniDisc arm-band/pouch, along with some headphones, and a pair of tiny microphones I tuck in my ears to make a Binaural_recording. I had been recording for about 30 minutes or so, and knew that the battery was getting low, but wasn't keeping a close eye on it. When I was finally finished, and went to stop it, it went into that "Data Save" / "TOC edit" sequence...and promptly died. (There's a burst of disc activity as it finishes up, and apparently that was too much for the battery.) It failed to write the TOC info, marking the beginning and end of the 30-minute track. Even though all the sound data was there, it was "invisible" to the MD when I put another battery in. All the old tracks were fine, and all that audio data was on there, but the indexing was missing for it.
In short, if it doesn't write that TOC track, you don't have your recording. So be sure you keep an eye on your power levels, and if in doubt, stop it and let it checkpoint. Better to lose 30 seconds of a recording while you stop & restart than to lose all 30 minutes of it!
Hope this is helpful to someone out there!
--PatrickSalsbury 05:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
- I think that Patrick writing about his personal experience would count as WP:OR, and as such can't be in the article. However, if external articles can be referenced that document such incidents where recordings were lost when the TOC couldn't be written due to low battery levels, then this might get worked into the paragraph that talks about the TOC. -- Tomlouie | talk 21:18, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Category: Failed media formats ?????
We have to have a more democratic or debated way to decide things like the presence on this article of Category: Failed media formats. I don't think you can call it a failure. Past it's peak, yes, but the millions of blanks sold hardly means it is as much of a failure as DCC or DAT. Even DAT was a success in professional markets. --LeedsKing 16:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
- Failed format? I went to a BBC open day and found out they use MD extensively. Totnesmartin 21:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] some people's idea of FM quality
I don't know about you, but in my area, FM radio transmits with a 15khz lowpass filter (i'm sure it used to be 19, but was lowered so that DAB wouldn't sound quite as horrid), and is effectively PCM ... well, ok, full analogue. No compression artefacts other than what the original recording had (as in... dynamic not data compression). Plus it's got fairly good stereo separation - not as good as CD, but with minimal crosstalk.
48kbit is not "FM quality" - it's dull, and squelchy. 64kbit barely counts (it's got the frequency response, but is horrendously over-compressed). 66kbit is a bit better, but it's still like the radio's "tone" control has been turned a long way anti-clockwise; plus all three of the former use stereo multiplexing, i.e. "lossy" stereo. The formats that come closest are typical 112kbit mp3 (or 128k in some poorer encoders) - still with lossy stereo unless you enable separate tracks and take an individual channel quality hit - or, for ATRAC, 105kbit (with full, individual channel separation).
please, people, get your comparisons straight, or they risk losing all value. and don't put FM down so hard! It's still pretty much the highest quality radio standard at the moment (until people learn that fewer DAB channels with higher bitrates are better than a plethora of sub-niche ones at 96kbit.. in MP2..) and doesn't deserve to be compared to such crappy standards such as 48kbit ATRAC (or, for that matter, 64kbit MP3).
I came to this discussion page because of this statement about FM [radio] quality. Please REMOVE this sentence or restate that Sony "claims" a 48 kBit/s bitstream can achieve radio quality, or cite a respectable webpage that has carried out the apropriate listening test. Most aproximations of the quality delivered by radio are, well, unfounded – Microsoft ACM preset (22 kHz, 8-bit), 96 kBit/s Xing MP3 – to name a few. Neither a superior quality signal can be downconverted to these bitstream widths with similar quality to FM radio, nor a captured broadcast can be saved in 48 kBit/s. -- J7n 01:30, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Analog or Analogue?
Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but the use of spelling should at least be consistent. I'll let someone else decide which is correct..
"with version 3.2 allowing users to upload their analog recordings an unlimited number times.
More recently in 2005, Sony announced the ability for their Hi-MD players to store and view photos; hence the name 'Hi-MD Photo'. This was perhaps to rival the iPod Photo, which was available just before its release.
A 1 GB Hi-MD disc can hold between 94 minutes (PCM) and 45 hours (48 kbit/s ATRAC3plus)* of music.
* 48 kbit/s ATRAC3plus is equal to FM quality.
Prior to the release of Sonicstage 3.4 (Sony's music management program for the Minidisc format) only Hi-MD recordings from analogue sources could be"
Carl0s 17:57, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
- Well, I too noticed the differences...it stands out when reading the article, and after checking this talk page attempted to standardise to BE, reasons being:
-
- The MD was most popular and sucessful in Japan and the UK
- The first major contributor was Hungarian (which to me, Europe implies BE)
- I'm English and thus I'm biased towards BE
-
- If there is a major problem with this then feel free to change and comment here on why Jastein 18:47, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
