User talk:Messhermit

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1 Comment on Gabbec's Talk Page
2 --J intela 02:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
3 HOW DEAR YOU CONTEST THE FACT THAT VLADEMEIR LENIN WAS A DICTATOR
4 Hey, see my last comment on Gabbec's talk page on a better way to organize the project
5 Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue VI - August 2006
6 Martha Chavez
7 Change of name for the War of the Confederation
8 Thanks for your comments
9 AMA request
10 You are now banned from editing Alberto Fujimori
11 Shining Path: Request for Mediation
12 Please
13 Peru dialogue
14 Daniel Ortega
15 WikiProject Military history Newsletter - Issue VII - September 2006
16 User Categorization
17 Image copyright problem with Image:Shahnawaz_Tanai.jpg
18 Sockpuppetry case
19 Time for some honesty
20 The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue VIII - October 2006
21 Blocked
22 Image tagging for Image:Alfredo_Stroessner.jpg

[edit] Comment on Gabbec's Talk Page

[edit] --J intela 02:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HOW DEAR YOU CONTEST THE FACT THAT VLADEMEIR LENIN WAS A DICTATOR

AND WHY DID YOU DELEAT MY CHANGES TO List of dictators AND WHY DO YOU KEEP CHANGING THE LIST DISPITE YOU GETTING BANED FROM EDITING PART OF IT. please aswer me what is your problem--J intela 02:47, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey, see my last comment on Gabbec's talk page on a better way to organize the project

. I too would have e-mailed you concerning this but your e-mail option is disabled.--Jersey Devil 21:23, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

The template you created looks alright, all I really wanted was that the order be maintained. I also like how you split North and South Peru. Ask for the opinions of the other Wikiproject members in the project talk page.--Jersey Devil 21:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Military history WikiProject Newsletter - Issue VI - August 2006

The August 2006 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot -- 12:27, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Martha Chavez

My edit summary was particularly harsh in the Marth Chavez article. I shouldn't have written what I did ("too damn bad"). Sorry for that. My temper got the best of me, and I will try to make sure that it doesn't happen again. --Descendall 03:30, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Change of name for the War of the Confederation

Why did you change the name of the war? The new name you have proposed is ONLY used in Peru, but in the rest of Latin America (not only in Chile as you claim) the proper name is War of the Confederation. For one, the new name is erroneous because even though the war was fought mostly between the Confederation and Chile, those were not the only participants. Also Argentina participated and attempted invasion (unsuccesfully). Should it be then the Chilean-Argentinian-Confederation War? The clearest example is the War of the Triple Alliance, the alliance being Argentina, Brasil and Uruguay, against Paraguay. Nowhere you find that war called the Paraguayan-Triple Alliance War... If you want to make a change such as that, you should have submitted a request FIRST, and then take action Mel Romero 07:36, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your comments

Thanks for your comments posted to my discussion page: As a University Professor, I recommend you do your homework (including copy-editing). Moreover, failing to provide verifiable sources and deleting what you disagree with is not NPOV. Please, restrain yourself from promoting your own “Fujimorista” political agenda and deleting verifiable sources. Many thanks!! User:bdean1963 8 September, 2006

[edit] AMA request

Bdean1963 Apparently has his own political agenda, had refused so far to several attempts by my part to contact him and discuss the problems.

He keeps asking for "sources" when he feels like (and modifying articles without stating his sources), deleting information that does not suit his opinion.
Keeps reverting to what he consider "NPOV" version of the article in which he ask for "sources" for what he doesn't like, added the loaded term "Dictator" as category, and uses his own personal research and political bias as "neutral".
He has reverted the article more than 3 times.
Finally, I have spotted him using Wikipedia for advertising "Anti-Fujimori" political T-shirts [1]. Claims to be a "Professor" in some Midwest University and that his editions are "unpartial", but he has also modified the dictator [2],[3] and Slobodan Milošević [4] to support the sales of this T-shirt and his "Anti-Fujimori" political stand.

I have only received direct replies from him today (After weeks of failed attempts to reach him). He has also e-mailed me political spam (and clearly "Anti-Fujimori" Advertisement). Currently, I don't know what to do. He claims that he uses "NPOV", but it seems that he is pushing an "Anti-Fujimori" political agenda. Messhermit 20:15, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Hello Messhermit,

Per your AMA request, I've taken a look at these and some of the other page diffs between you and Bdean1963, and think the editing issues are potentially solvable via the WP:MEDCAB. On your call, I'll try contacting Bdean1963 to see if he would be interested in working out the issues there. I notice you 2 have not interacted in awhile, if you think the situation is over it might be better to let it go.--Amerique 04:37, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I filed an informal mediation request at WP:MEDCAB. Once this case is accepted, I will be advocating on your behalf towards achieving realistic compromises on the content issues involved. As I see it, this case has more to do with an WP:NPOV and WP:RS dispute than with any specific WP conduct violations on Bdean1963's part. He has contacted me by email and expressed willingness to undergo mediation. As we go into mediation, I urge the assumption of good faith and observance of civility in your interactions with this user. In the meantime, I recommend going over your page diffs with Bdean and identifying what concretely are the NPOV or RS violations that you feel have caused the revert wars with this user. Best,--Amerique 20:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Re: The tshirt thing, where do you see that this user is posting t-shirt ads? The first link you posted showed something like that, but I couldn't identity who initially posted it.--Amerique 21:09, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok thanks, the issues look negociable at this point. A cabalist I have worked with before has agreed to mediate this case. I guess we will wait for word from him and Bdean before proceeding.--Amerique 00:56, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

As the case seems to address content issues primarily, ok to hold the mediation session on the talk page of the Fujimori article?--Amerique 07:20, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Hello Carlos,

Addhoc has set up a mediation page off the Fujimori talk page. Meanwhile, with the itemized list you sent me, I think you did the right thing with removing the t-shirt link, but there is no special WP prohibition against using self-authored works as references under Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#Self-published_sources. I think the mediation issues will center on your other editing conflicts with this user. Best,--Amerique 21:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe that Wikipedia should be a place were anybody can self-promote its own publications. At least in Wikipedia Spanish they have severe implications to do that. I'll try to find out information regarding this issue, but I believe that the same must be used here; after all it's all about being impartial, not about describing one's personal POV. That book is ovbiously not going to contradict the editions of Bdean1963; after all, he write it himself. Messhermit 22:41, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, well, there was once a proposal for a policy on this in the English WP, but the proposal itself was voted down WP:EXPERT. To my knowledge, there is not a more definite statement on the English WP as to the appropriateness of using self-authored works published by reputable houses than the Reliable Source guidelines. If you want to argue that both the content and the reference used to support it are biased, we can do that, but I wouldn't ascribe "self-promotion" modivations to Bdean's activities in this matter, as it may be interperted as a lack of good faith on our part. I will see if I can check his book out of my university library to see what his facts are.--Amerique 23:12, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Messhermit, following your suggestion, I've set up a mediation page, could you review the contents and if appropriate add your signature. Thanks, Addhoc 18:47, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Connection trouble ate my initial response. The upshot is, it would be easy to argue that Bdean might be biased against Fujimori. There are plenty of examples of this in his essay, State Power and Indigenous Peoples in Peruvian Amazonia, such as:

The populist political system that emerged under Fujimori depended on the time-honored ploy of doling out state resources on the basis of political patronage... New patronage networks accompanying Fujimori's corrupt pork barrel policies took their place in Amazonia alongside older and more localized forms of clientelism. p202-203

Instead of the give and take characteristic of democratic, participatory governance, intimidation, complicity, and censorship were common leitmotifs of Fujimori's authoritarian regime. p204

Neoliberal legislation implemented during Fujimori's ten year regime countermanded constitutional and statutory protection of indiginous peoples' land rights established under previous governments. p213

One of the primary causes for the democratic crisis gripping Peru at the end of the 90s was Fujimori's autocratic effort to retain power for an unconstitutional third term (Andian Report 2000).

From WP:Reliable Source guidelines:

Exceptions to this may be when a well-known, professional researcher writing within his field of expertise, or a well-known professional journalist, has produced self-published material. In some cases, these may be acceptable as sources, so long as their work has been previously published by credible, third-party publications, and they are writing under their own names, and not a pseudonym.

That is the closest guideline that applies. I read the linked material you sent me. While I agree that it is hard to find academic material that is free from bias against politicians (this tradition goes back to Socrates and Plato), unless you can find some research funded by pro-capitalist think tanks you are not going to be able to counteract the leftist monopoly on truth. If there is any Peruvian research that is pro-Fujimori, including it along with the international leftist accounts may present a more complicated and NPOV depiction of the man. However, the WP:NPOV policy is not a censorship policy, nor is it any sort of "positive information only" standard on WP. We can argue that the phrasing of Bdean's material might be biased, but we can't really argue against including it, nor should we ascribe "self-promotion" modivations to Bdean's activities on WP, as this can be interperted as a lack of good faith on our part.--Amerique 23:18, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Re: your last message. If you think you are getting bullied, that this has become a conduct issue, then I think we should drop the mediation right now. Proceeding with it won't work for the article if it becomes a flame war. I advise taking an extended break from WP for the time being.--Amerique 14:46, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I am talking to Addhoc via email about this. At this point, I don't know if this will proceed. Will let you know as soon as I know.--Amerique 22:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You are now banned from editing Alberto Fujimori

Because of edit warring on the article Alberto Fujimori [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11], you are now banned from editing it. This ban expires when your probation expires, on 21 May, 2007. --Tony Sidaway 20:39, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I guess you found out before I did. Oh well, while you did try to resolve things via mediation, you did so after you had already edit warred with Bdean. There is nothing I can do to argue against the enforcement of prior ArbCom decisions. Next time, I recommend stepping back and requesting mediation before allowing things to get to an "edit war" situation. Also, don't start edit wars in the first place by removing referenced material that is critical of whatever the subject of the article is, and declaring biases on the part of the editors who posted it. You must provide your own sources for any claims you want to make on any subject in any article on WP. If you can't find any prior research to support your claims, maybe there's a reason for that, but don't take referenced material down simply because it does not support what you feel is NPOV, you should provide information from other reliable sources to counteract that. You must write from reliable sources if you to become an effective editor on WP or an effective academic elsewhere.--Amerique 00:02, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Addhoc has already closed the case, and I doubt BDean would still want to go through with it. What you could do is repost the arguments you made on my talk page to the talk page of the article, and basically hope someone picks up on them. However, there was nothing wrong with Dean putting cite tags on unreferenced information, and repeatedly removing his referenced information was the wrong approach. You did the right thing with removing the t-shirt ad, as I don't know what he intended by that, but the other stuff at best you could have added additional referenced context to or edited the phrasing to make it sound more NPOV, not remove the content entirely. Anyway, I suggest posting messages on Dean's and Addhoc's talk pages to see if they would still be interested in pursuing this, but I personally need to take a break from WP for about a week or so to work on other things, so I would not be able to advocate for you if they agreed to carry on with this.

Personally, I think you should let this one go. If you had developed a good working/editing relationship with BDean, you would have gained a great contact with a Harvard Ph.D who could have provided you with a reference letter in any future grad school applications. Your empassioned defense of Fujimori has not advanced the article nor your personal interests. I don't see how you can salvage the situation now.

Regrettably,

Amerique 02:20, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Messhermit. BDean seems to be pushing a political agenda.--AAAAA 11:38, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I diagree with User:Messhermit as well as with your assertion that I am "pushing a political agenda". --User:Bdean1963 28 0ctober 2006

[edit] Shining Path: Request for Mediation

Hello Messhermit. Need you help here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_mediation/Shining_Path --AAAAA 04:51, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
- I don't know in what way can I help you. It is true that I have no sympathy for Sendero and the MRTA, but I don't understand the whole dispute. Messhermit 19:17, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
  - The issue is that some Communist Wikipedians want to "elevate" Shining Path a misappropriate the name "Communist Party of Peru". I have no sympathy for Communists, but I think it is a crime to let Sendero-Apologists improve the standing of these Terrorist Shining Path group.--AAAAA 02:33, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please

Stop attacking bdean and other users. You can banned from user talk pages as part of your probation. So please cease. --Woohookitty^(meow) 09:20, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Let's see. You told him that anything he says will be reverted. You also accused him of pushing a POV. And then once again, you threatened to revert anything he said. You also accused him of having a double standard and of being unethical and unprofessional. And these are just from Bdean's talk page. If you don't think that these posts are incivil and (some) are personal attacks, then I'm not sure what else to tell you. As for him bolding the word "banned", I get the feeling that he is responding to you using bold alot. Nothing you posted on my talk page could be considered a personal attack or even incivil. Borderline, maybe. And you know, you have sanctions against you via the arbcom. That limits your ability to engage in what you've engaged in on bdean's talk page. Honestly, I can see an argument for banning you from his talk page. I don't see a post from you on his page that is not some sort of attack or is incivil. --Woohookitty^(meow) 12:53, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

And I didn't even mention the arbcom threat. --Woohookitty^(meow) 12:54, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Pushing a POV is not incivil. Calling someone a name can be, though it isn't always. Nothing else you list can be considered incivil. And btw, please try to be patient. I do have a life outside of Wikipedia, so I can't always get back to you instantly. To me (and this is just from the posts I've read), you are taking some of the attacks on the former Peruvian president personally. Please don't do that. I don't see any other reasoning for considering calling the president a dictator as being incivil towards you. If he called YOU a dictator, yes. But I don't think that's what you are talking about. And I am not sure where you got that pushing a POV is incivil. It isn't. Is it good? No. But incivil? No. --Woohookitty^(meow) 13:20, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peru dialogue

In response to your posting on my talk page (Please restrain to write in my talk page in you don't have anything important to state. If you keep bullying me with that kind of attitude, I will have to initiate an RfA against your person. I urge you to avoid this, since in that case, my probation does not apply. Messhermit 14:40, 18 September 2006 (UTC))

User:Messhermit Sorry for my delayed response. Given your ban from editing the Alberto Fujimori entry [12] perhaps we could continue our dialogue about the political history of Peru on the Peru talk page User:Bdean1963 30 October 2006

[edit] Daniel Ortega

Hola, porque me revertiste las mejoras de estilo que realice en el articulo de Daniel Ortega. Tus reversiones arbitrarias estorban el desempeño. Lo vuelvo a revertir.--K4zem 22:05, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Vaya lata, parece que la mafia de la wikipedia en español no descansa ni siquiera en al wikipedia en inglés. Se te ve el plumero con el sesgo como lo "caudillo Ortega". Echale flores a tu ídolo Fujimori, pero deja a los otros lideres latinoamericanos a que no simpatizas en paz. --K4zem 22:12, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Yo no soy peruano, pero tu tampoco eres nicaragüense o ¿si?. Es bien conocido tu proselitismo político en wikipedia y lo de Fujimori es buen ejemplo, pero por desgracia no es lo único. Sobre la biografía de Daniel Ortega ya no es solo tendenciosa en la wikipedia en español (ahora hasta le califican "genocida" del pueblo miskito), sino también en la wikipedia en inglés gracias a personas como tú. No sigo perdiendo mi tiempo más en esta conversación inútil, solo espero que te paren los pies en tus ediciones unilaterales.--K4zem 09:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Military history Newsletter - Issue VII - September 2006

The September 2006 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by Grafikbot - 19:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User Categorization

You were listed on the Wikipedia:Wikipedians/Peru page as living in or being associated with Peru. As part of the Wikipedia:User categorisation project, these lists are being replaced with user categories. If you would like to add yourself to the category that is replacing the page, please visit Category:Peruvian Wikipedians for instructions.--Balloonguy 19:52, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Shahnawaz_Tanai.jpg

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[edit] Sockpuppetry case

You have been accused of sockpuppetry. Please refer to Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Messhermit for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with notes for the suspect before editing the evidence page. Descendall 01:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

You may wish to note that I have radically changed Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Messhermit. You should review it now that the changes have been made. Thank you. --Descendall 08:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I have requested a checkuser be run on you. You may see my request at Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Messhermit. --Descendall 02:55, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Time for some honesty

Look, I'm going to just ask you directly. From what I see, there are two possibilities:

1. There are two people who go to Miami Dade College. Both of them edit wikipedia at about the same time. Both use the same phrases when they edit. Both edit List of dictators. Both edit Daniel Ortega. Both edit Paquisha War. Both edit Vladimiro Montesinos. Both edit Abimael Guzmán. Both edit Alfredo Stroessner. Both have an interest in World War Two. Both talk to User:Addhoc. Both live in Miami. Both use BellSouth's ISP at home. Both agree with each other 100% of the time.

2. You have been editing articles that you are banned from editing.

Why not just be up front about it and tell me which one of those is the case. Is it 1, or 2? Honesty goes far.

Thanks.

Descendall 03:19, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Too late. It was confirmed by the admins. Well, at least you went out gracefully: accusing me of being involved in a conspiracy against you. --Descendall 00:35, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear User:Descendall I appreciate all of your efforts regarding User:Messhermit's conduct on the Wikipedia encyclopedic project. Your steadfast work has contributed to the clarification of User:Messhermit's disingenuous edits, not to mention his inappropriate commentary. Saludos--User:bdean1963 28 October 2006

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue VIII - October 2006

The October 2006 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 22:15, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blocked

Blocked: I have blocked you for 5 days for editing Alberto Fujimori in violation of the arbitration ruling in your case. The maximum block is 5 days; since the evasion was repeated and deliberate, as proven by checkuser, I have imposed the maximum block. Please try to work out your problems with other editors through the regular dispute resolution process, such as request for third opinion, request for comment, and mediation. Thatcher131 01:50, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:Alfredo_Stroessner.jpg

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