Talk:Marwan Barghouti

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Contents 1 capture or arrest? 2 Birthday 3 This isn't ziopedia 4 My comments 4.1 Second intifada 5 "Campaign to Free Marwan Barghouti"

[edit] capture or arrest?

"Arrest" is the israeli line. However, Marwan Barghouti was CAPTURED in ramalla. Israel has no right of arrest within the Occupied territories. It's like saying the New York Police Department "arrested" a russian member of parliament in MOSCOW.

If I was like you zionists, I would change it to "kidnap". Whenever someone captures an israeli soldier you zionists call it "kidnap" right? So it's only fair this is called a "kidnapping". However, I know it should stay as "captured" because I, unlike you, have some objectivity.

Rm uk 15:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

You need to learn some international law. As the occupying power in the territories, Israel has not only a right, but an obligation, to maintain civil order through police functions. It arrested Barghouti, as the cited source (the BBC, no less) says. Isarig 17:52, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

And under the same international law, the occupied people have the right to resist the "occupying power". At least that's the excuse my uncle Hector gave when he was caught drawing mustaches on portraits of Golda Meir... Ramallite ^(talk) 19:16, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Indeed they do, but not by attacking civilians, which is what Barghouti was arrested for, charged with, tried for, and convicted of. He is a common criminal, arrested by law enforcement agencies, tried by a civilian court for murder, and serving his life sentence for that crime. Isarig 23:13, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

it is an illegal occupation. thus capture not arrest... anyway the PLO policed that area at the time... Rm uk 23:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

You are welcome to your POV, but international law holds a different opinion. Regardless, the 4th Geneva convention, which governs the occupying power's rights and obligations has no concept of an "illegal occupation" - it is a propaganda term invented by pro-Palestinian partisans. The PLO has no policing powers. Perhasp you man the Palestinian Authority. Isarig 00:06, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Rm uk 01:07, 30 August 2006 (UTC) says: the PA has policing powers in the Occupied Territories. And "illegal occupation" is not a propaganda term. UN resolution (cant remember the number now) calls for israel to withdraw from all land gained in the 67 war. Thus illegal.

The UNSCR resolution you are reffering to calls for Israel to withdraw for territories it captured (not "all, as you mistakingly wrote) in conjunction with the end of hostilities and the recognition of Israel's secure borders (i.e, a peace agreement) by its neighbors. This does not make the occupation illegal, and that term is not used in the resolution. Regardless, as I pointed out to you, the 4GC has no such concept, making this entire debate moot. Isarig 03:24, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

the PA is meant to control the occupied territories, it's in Oslo. I personally think Oslo was a pile of crap. But, that is not relevant. Oslo was signed by both parties. Why did israel always ask the palestinian authority to "clamp down on militants"? Why are their palestinian police? Because they police the West Bank, Gaza... and the rest. Hence "captured".

The fact that the PA has policing powers does not mean Israel does not have the same. The PA's authority stems from Oslo, Israel's from it's status as an occupying power. The occupying power may request assitance form local police, but that does not negate its own authority. Isarig 03:24, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure it is "capture" however, I added a little piece as a comprimise (I let it stay as "arrest") that any reasonable person would accept Rm uk 04:36, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Birthday

• I have seen several different birth dates (ranging from 1958 to 1960 and different days on those years, June 5, June 8, etc). What is the practice in this situation? 128.12.72.6 05:01, 22 May 2004 (UTC)
  • Seems to me we can try listing out links which support each different date and decide based on that. GiantSloth 22:01, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • June 6, 1959
      1. CNN [1]
      2. Washington Times [2]
    • 1959 (year only)
      1. Al Jazeerah [3]

• Ha, it seems one of his brothers name is Muqbal Barghouti, any one know how many brothers and sisters he has?

He's only allegedly "guilty" because he's innocent until proven guilty in a legitimate court of law. That does not include a Jewish kangaroo-court Sanhedrin, which only needed Caiaphas to be complete.

This is anti-Semitic crap

Rm uk 15:40, 29 August 2006 (UTC) says: the old slur of anti-semitism. If israel committed genocide of all the palestinians then you guys would still say it was anti semitic to criticise.

[edit] This isn't ziopedia

Take this drivel to the AIPAC website or some other hasbara propaganda site. Barghouti's trial was illegal and a complete sham. A PA court would sentence Sharon to tens of thousands of consequtive life sentences for his role in murder and attempted murder. If this verdict is not taken seriously, neither should that of the zionist court.

The Jews own the world, you Arabs are only good for oil, once it runs out its back to the Dark Ages with you.

Rm uk 15:41, 29 August 2006 (UTC) says: "you Arabs are only good for oil, once it runs out its back to the Dark Ages with you." now thats anti semitism. the arabs are "semites" aren't they?

[edit] My comments

[Note: Nothing in the following remarks should be interpreted as granting legitimation to the previous statements from an anonymous poster.]

I should probably explain why I reverted this article yesterday, and why I've added a sentence now.

The article currently reads, "He is currently serving five life sentences in an Israeli jail for murder and attempted murder." This statement is both accurate and NPOV. The phrase "Murder and attempted murder" refers to a legal conviction -- it makes no comment on the accuracy of the charges, nor on the validity of the legal process under which the trial occurred.

The word "allegedly" is pretty obviously POV in this context; it needed to be removed, as such.

That said, it is also my position that the article's introduction should make reference to the controversial nature of Barghouti's prison sentence. To this end, I have added the statement "Barghouti's supporters believe that these charges were politically motivated, and consider him a political prisoner". This statement, like the one before it, is NPOV -- it makes no comment on the accuracy of these claims, and merely notes that they have been raised in the field of public discourse.

If anyone believes this to be flawed logic, I'm willing to entertain objections. CJCurrie 22:39, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I don't doubt the NPOV, but perhaps something along the lines of "jailed by an Israeli court" rather than serving "in an Israeli jail" might show this more objectively. - 69.140.65.251 23:47, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Aren't convictions always controversial, at least by the standards of the convicted persons if they claim to be innocent? gidonb 01:29, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Of course his supporters deny everything. No Palestinian ever did anything. But I respect your NPOV dedication, but you left out the number of dead. I believe it was 28. ScottAdler 06:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

supporters means fellow terrorists and I don't think one should take it too seriously. I've addred the Israeli claim which was backed by public evidence. Amoruso

Do you have any evidence that "supporters means fellow terrorists"? The government of Israel's claims can be referenced in the main body of the article, but it doesn't belong in the intro. CJCurrie 06:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Second intifada

The bit about him discerning military and civilian target is interesting but is there a source for this?

indeed. that should be referenced or deleted...

[edit] "Campaign to Free Marwan Barghouti"

the immunity claim is false in international law. Palestine is not a country and the members of their parliament don't have any immunity what-so-ever according to the relevant convenants in question. Amoruso 23:15, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

yeh thats the problem, zionist denial of palestinian right of self determination Rm uk