Talk:Labial-velar consonant
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What the f***? Doubly articulated fricatives do not seem to be possible? I have no problem to even pronounce four fricatives with different PoA's at once...--Army1987 21:15, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
- Ehm... In what I was pronouncing, the radical articulation was more of a pharingealization than of real friction, but I am able to pronounce velar, alveolar and bilabial fricatives at once.--Army1987 21:22, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
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- "Not possible" is too strong a phrase. But they are difficult to articulate, and perhaps even more difficult to hear. They are not confirmed for any language; many claims have been made, but they have never held up upon inspection.
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- As for your triply articulated fricative, I would imagine you need a fair amount of concentration to maintain true frication at all three places. I might be able to manage it myself, but the frication comes and goes in waves, so that the triple articulation phases in and out of single and double articulations. It also needs a lot of lung power, and makes my dizzy if I try to hold it. Plus, I could probably get the same sound with some secondary articulation. Not a very effective consonant! kwami 06:20, 2005 September 12 (UTC)
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- I reworded the article. However IMO not even doubly articulated stops are really simultaneous. In all Internet examples of [kp] I've listened to, they overlap to a certain extent, but the release of [k] is audibly slightly before than the release of [p].--Army1987 19:07, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
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- Yes, that's true, and not just in what you've heard. I used to speak a bit of Fon gbe, and this really should be mentioned in the article. However, while the onset and release are slightly offset (and thus the order of the letters in [k͡p] is motivated), 90% of the occlusion is simultaneous. This is a very different effect than a [kp] sequence, and "double articulation" is a fairly accurate label. It does sound a bit like a sequence when intervocalic, but word initially it sounds very different. Also, when there is allophonic variation, [k͡p] tends to alternate with [kʷ], and never to my knowledge with [kp]. kwami 20:43, 2005 September 12 (UTC)
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