Talk:Krupnik

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Comments	This is an interesting article, and a nice topic, but I really feel that it needs sources, per WP:CITE

Halibutt, in contrast to starka, krupnik has historically and geographically discovered roots, it was introduced by Radvilas clan in 1593, see for example [1] :-) Also, remember what actually means krupnik in Polish language - it means barley soup :-) Of course, I know that history of Poland and Lithuania is very interlaced, but in this case you had simply deleted historic facts and drinking method (how do you imagine drinking of well chilled krupnik - with teaspoon?). So, I would like to suggest reverting article back and discuss future changes. By the way: there are few kinds of krupnik - one traditional, recipe by 1593, specific recipes by karaims in Trakai which has lots of herbs and only small amounts of honey and several new kinds (mostly since XIX century) which have simpler composition. --Gvorl 08:48, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Frankly speaking, the legend of krupnik being invented by the Radziwiłłs seems incredible, especially that honey-made vodkas are spread all over the Slavic culture. Just take a look at the evolution of Polish mead or the Ukrainian medukha, Russian miedova and many more which are known since time immemorial. Also, the Franciscans (be them Bernardines, Kapucines, Reformates or whatever rite) were known for their honey liquors since middle ages, including those settled in Kraków in 1237. Also, note that what is called krupnik is actually the basic ingredient of Polish mead (and is sometimes also called miodnik). Hence the names of dwójniak (double for 2 parts of water per every 1 part of honey liquor), trójniak (3:1), czwórniak (4:1) and półtorak (1,5:1). You can (and should!) add herbs to it, but without herbs it would still be krupnik. After all the basic recipe is 1/5 litre spirit, 1/5 litre honey, some sugar for the colour. And there are known royal privileges for satiating the honey from 12th century. Perhaps the Radziwiłł legend refers precisely to the type of krupnik with specific mixture of herbs added, but I doubt it refers to krupnik in general.

As to chilled krupnik - that's exactly how I drink it and I don't have a problem with it. Just put it in the fridge for some 1 hour or so. I don't like the hot version since it gives me shivers. Note that I wrote chilled, not frozen (BTW, I wonder at what temperature does 40% alcohol freeze). And I drink it from a simple glasses or cups, depending on whether I drink it at home with friends or at some re-enactment meeting. No teaspoons involved whatsoever.

As to krupnik in Polish - it has a variety of meanings, depending on the region. Generally it means something made of grains (krupy), hence it's used for:

• krupnik
• krupnik soup - made of barley or millet
• krupnik sausage, a kind of sausage made of blood, a variety of all-Polish kaszanka, similar to blutwurst or morcilla
• krupnik pie - kind of a pie made of meat and grains

I'm sure I could find some more. And what is the Lithuanian ethymology of krupnikas?

Of course, we can add the history of various recipes for krupnik and explain the details and differences, including your Radziwiłł legend, the Karaim variety, the Lesser Polish variety (with black pepper), and so on. However, you cannot claim that the drink is Lithuanian.

BTW, I even found a recipe for something called Lithuanian Krupnik, but I fail to see the difference between the recipe and hundreds of other recipes. I guess it's just like the case of other tinctures, it all depends on the person to make it and not on geography. Halibutt 09:40, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

BTW, this site claims that Krupnik is a traditional Polish vodka and is known since 13th century.... I believe it's not up to us to decide whichever version is true. Halibutt 09:48, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

So, anyway, you had deleted some historic data, drinking method changed simply to your own preference and claimed that krupnik is nothing else than ingredient of mead. Maybe you're talking about different thing which needs separate article? But there are lots of mead and honey liquors in the world and it seems that you are talking about all these calling them "krupnik"? Claiming that every honey liquor is krupnik or meducha or mead, etc. would be really doubtful. Also, chilled krupnik containing lot of honey has consistency of dense syrup, so it would be problematic to drink it :-) And also, can you explain how etymology of word "grain" is related to _honey_ drink? :-) --Gvorl 10:43, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

No, you got me wrong.

1. If there are people who drink it chilled, then the drink is also served chilled. Is that clear? I don't know if it's illegal to drink it cold or what? I changed not only to my preferrence, but also to the preferrence of others who drink it like me.
2. I didn't claim that krupnik is nothing else than ingredient of mead. Re-read my earlier post. Krupnik is the basic ingredient of mead as well as a distinct drink on its own. BTW, I doubt modern distilleries and mead producers make their mead and krupnik the way it used to be and most probably the modern krupnik diluted with water will not be as tasty as it should.
3. No, we're speaking of the same honey vodka known under a variety of names, of which krupnik is the best known. BTW, we both now the difference in the meaning of the word vodka, do we.
4. No, chilled krupnik is only a tad more dense than the one you just brought from your local booze supplier. Go and check it for yourself, I really recommend it that way. BTW, in most cafes in Poland krupnik is served in normal room temperature, in tiny vodka glasses or, at times, in cognac onion-like glasses. How is it served in Lithuania?
5. As to ethymology - the two basic ingredients of krupnik (let the precious gifts of nature known as spices out) are honey and grain spirit. Grain spirit. Not potato-made. Hence the name.
6. As to historical data - feel free to add it, but please do not claim that it's the sole and only vision of the world since it's simply incredible.

BTW, I really think we should meet and have a try at the common Polish-Lithuanian drinking heritage one day... Halibutt 11:00, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi again. I contacted one of Lithuanian authors - Vincentas Sakas, who is one of best known writers specialising in history of dishes and beverages. He was unable to provide direct sources for Krupnikas history but said that this information is from some archives of Radvilas. Also, he was treatened me with some legal actions because of providing pro-polish info on wikipedia, LOL :-DDD So, as I am unable to provide direct sources, I surrender on those historical roots. Other questions can be discussed, because there are lots of uncertainities. Btw, when you will be in Lithuania, it would be good to meet and drink - in vini veritas :-) --Gvorl 15:05, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Definitely, plural is what I like about your comment above :) As to pro-Polish stance - I didn't know its punishable by law in Lithuania, hopefully this will change in the future. Sometimes I believe that we all would be a lot happier if the politicians were not so lacking a drink at all times. After one or two, the world is a lot easier to handle - and the laws would be better I guess. Anyway, EOT. Halibutt 12:07, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vodka?

I'm familiar with both the Krupnik (pictured) from Polmos-Poznan and the Lithuanian counterpart, Likeris Krupnikas, from Vilnius. I find them very similar in flavor, though Krupnikas is a bit darker in color. What I don't get is why they're classified as a type of vodka. To an American, they seem much more on the order of a liqueur -- sticky and sweet. Perhaps one of you can explain that to me. To my taste, they make a good substitute for something like Drambuie.

BTW, Halibutt, you'll be glad to know I find both Krupnik and Krupnikas far superior to the German honey liqueur Bärenfäng, which is said to be East Prussian in origin.

Sca 20:57, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Liqueur, spirit, or what ?

According to a source I would credit as reliable (the Encyclopedia of Wines and Spirits by Alexis Lichine, in French) Krupnik would not be honey flavored grain spirit, but distilled honey spirits : spirits made from distilling mead as vodka and whisky are from grain, and brandy from wine. Any experts or more reliable sources to verify or falsify this?

And on another subject, I'm not sure this has a place in the category "mead". Either it is a grain spirit based liqueur, or distilled spirits (if from a fermented honey/mead base). Either way, it is not a variety of mead and belongs to that other category : "honey liqueurs and spirits. So I effected the move. --Svartalf 08:46, 6 September 2006 (UTC)