Talk:Korean count word

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Add the korean words, then add this in the list :

• goeon (...) : books
• gelu (...) : trees

In this article the word "beoseu" (bus) is used. I have only seen "ppeoseu" in writing, though. And on a sign in Chibeuro (The Way Home). Unfortunately, I have never been to the land of the morning calm, so I don't know which is correct/used. --Taejo 13:01, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

버스 is vastly more common, at least in South Korea. Google the two forms if you don't believe me. The ㅃ form may have been chosen in the movie -- I'm just guessing -- as a way of highlighting the backwardness of the area. I believe -- and again I may be wrong -- that 뻐스 results from rendering the katakana for "bus" into hangul, while 버스 is a direct hangulization from English. The two count words you mention are already in the list, as gwon and geuru. -- Visviva 02:59, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

<버스> is the standard way of writing it in Korean (so it's probably what we should use at Wikipedia), but actual pronunciation tends to be [뻐쓰], regardless of how it's written. It's similar with <가스> and <카페> which are actually pronounced [까쓰] and [까페]. I agree with Visviva. It was probably written that way to convey the atmosphere of the place.

It's unrelated to the katakana though.

([짜장면] is a special case. It's usually written <짜장면> and pronounced [짜장면], but prescriptivists advocate <자장면> and [자장면]. The prescriptivist spelling and pronunciation looks and sounds very nitpicky or posh to me.) --Kjoonlee 05:17, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "measure words"

The Chinese article on this subject is similarly named, but the Japanese equivalent is Japanese counter word. Personally, I have never heard the phrase "measure word" before. In fact, it often makes no sense: when you say "kae tu-gae" (dogs two-things/two dogs) you aren't measuring dogs, you're counting them. Both "Taehak Hangugeo/College Korean" and "Declan's Korean HakGyo", as well as Langenscheidt's pocket Korean dictionary call them "count words". --Taejo 12:56, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

good point. I agree with you. My Korean study book that I have also uses the word "count" and not "measure". I propose a name change for this article. Masterhatch 11 July 2005

I believe the technically correct term is numeral classifier; though the general article is currently at measure word. Nevertheless, most reference works I checked (for Korean) use count word, thus I moved. Kokiri 09:00, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Usage

This article states that Native Korean numerals are used with counter words. Is this true? What about 십 개월 - This does not mean december, it means ten months. Any thoughts? Also, could we make the body of the text a bit clearer? For instance instead of 'paper-like material' something that captures the flatness of 장 (paper-like material at first read is a bit misleading; plastic cards can certainly be counted with 장 as well). Zippyt 04:57, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Here, -gaewol is -個月. It's a bound morpheme made of Hanja, so it goes together with 십. --Kjoonlee 05:04, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm still somewhat confused. Aren't all counter words bound morphemes? 장 as well has Hanja, 張, however we say 한 장 and not 일장. I guess part of my confusion lies in the English wording-- do we consider 장 a counter word and 개월 not, and how do we make this distinction? Thanks for any input =D Zippyt 09:54, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

It's a very confusing matter; pardon me for not being clear. I'm not really an expert on this matter, although most of the anonymous edits on this article was probably done by me. ;) If my explanation was incorrect or confusing, I humbly suggest you ignore it. ^^;;

BTW, I'm sure most people are unaware that 장 (or even 개!) are actually made of Hanja.

Back on topic, most measurements of time/space/temperature is done using Sino-Korean numerals. Maybe this makes more sense? 삼 미터, 십오 분, 사십 리터, 삼십 도. The exceptions seem to be 한 시간 and 한 시. --Kjoonlee

And also 한 달. --Kjoonlee 11:06, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Since it is this confusing, perhaps we could add something on the article page that helps those unfamiliar with Korean measure/count words determine when to use which system?Zippyt 01:47, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

IMHO that would more likely fit Wikibooks or Wikiversity, rather than Wikipedia. If people were to add new info themselves, it would be against WP:NOR unless they cite reliable sources. This article was made (AFAIK) when Wikipedia didn't put such a heavy focus on WP:NOR. --Kjoonlee 02:00, 21 August 2006 (UTC)