User:Kober/Archive3

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Mr Kober, where is article on History of Abkhazia? :) Ldingley 17:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Kober, please review Georgian-Abkhaz conflict Ldingley 19:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, Luis... I'm getting lazier as the temperature is rising here in Tbilisi :) I promise to complete the history article soon. Your edits on the conflict artcile are, as always, brilliant. Cheers, --Kober 12:38, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah that math course was very interesting, lazy georgian students :)

Ha, ha. Very characteristic image! I have to admit it... :)--Kober 17:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!

Hey Kober, thanks man! These Armenian images are great! -- Clevelander 01:34, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. Always glad to help. Cheers, --Kober 03:24, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV

Kober, we have rv war with nationalist POV pusher User:Ghirlandajo on Georgian-Abkhaz conflict Ldingley 14:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

BTW did you noticed this User:Zone contribs?

12:44, 10 August 2006 (hist) (diff) m Talk:Ethnic cleansing of Georgians in Abkhazia 12:42, 10 August 2006 (hist) (diff) m Talk:Ethnic cleansing of Georgians in Abkhazia 12:32, 10 August 2006 (hist) (diff) Talk:Ethnic cleansing of Georgians in Abkhazia 20:42, 6 August 2006 (hist) (diff) Dimitri Gulya (a new article about Abkhazian great writer) 20:12, 30 March 2006 (hist) (diff) m Talk:Abkhazia 20:11, 30 March 2006 (hist) (diff) m Talk:Abkhazia 22:13, 15 January 2006 (hist) (diff) m Abkhazia

Nop, there is no single resolution by UN on "Abkhaz Refugees." However, such resolution does exist on so called "Turk-Meskhetians" dating 1960s Ldingley 16:04, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Kober, how to archive my user page? Ldingley 16:06, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot Kober, you'r the best! Ldingley 16:46, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

გაუმარჯოს კობერ, როგორ ხარ? რაც თქვი ყველაფერი მართავლია. ერთ რუსთან კამათი მომივიდა აფხაზეთის სალაპარაკო გვერდზე და საკმაოდ უხეშში რომ გადადიოდა მერე ლუისმა განმუხთა სიტუაცია. მე დავწერე კაზაკებს აფხაზეთში რა უნდათ, წავიდნენ თავის ქვეყანაში და იბანაონ მეთქი და მაგაზე სულ გაგიჟდა ერთი, რომელსაც თავისი კაზაკობდა დიდად ეამაყებოდა.

რაც შეეხება ისტორიუს სტატიას, ძალიან კარგად არის ნაწერი, როგორც ყველა შენი ნაშრომი. შუა საუკუნეებზეც და ძველ პერიოდზეც კარგად მოგვითხრობს. მე რაც შემეხება ვიკიპედიისგან ცოტა ვისვენებ და გპირდები რომ სამების სტატიაზე დავიწყებ მუშაობას როგორც კი საბოლოოდ დავბრუნდები ვიკიპედიაში. ნამდვილას იმსახურებ კაი სტატიას, მაგალთად St. Paul's Cathedral ივით რომ გავხადოთ. Sosomk 16:08, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

This user supports Georgia's bid to join the NATO.

Ldingley 21:18, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Cool!--Kober 04:31, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Salami turqetidan

Kober gamarjobat,

Ukacravad, ver gamogexmiane. Turkul Wikishi ver sheclebs adamiani rom sheitanos neitraluri informacia saqartvelos shesaxeb. Magalitad Adjaris statias da im tsatiebis, romlebic exeba Adjaris regions, icaven da eg statiebi gadaitanes islamisturi da panturkisturi cvlillebshi. Turkul Wikishi arsebos gamogonli statiebic (;;; da ase.) da eg statiebi panturkisturi shexedulebit dacerila. Magalitad Ajaruli () vitom turkolovani enaa da calian sasaciloa rom vitom icereba Kipchakuri anbanit (Kıpçak alfabesi). Da mere, igoneben axal kategoriebsac, aseti statiebis dasacavat. Erti magaliti kide, naxe Apxazeti (), shecvales da mokle statias icaven, amitom ik icereboda simartle, etnikuri gacmindeba kartvelebisa apxazetshi, da ratkma unda rusetis poziciac. Ai naxe kategori, vitom Apxazeti arsebob chridilo kavkasetshi (Kuzey Kafkasya). Da aseti imdeni rame arsebobs rom, gagichdebi. Da eg kvelaperi ganxilvebshic daicera da gamogonili statiebis cahsla itxova, magram daicaves. Saintereso da sasacili bevri rame kide moxda, magram ar mogcer axla amis detalebs. Aba kargad… --SidE 16:13, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

* Pes doğrusu. Diyecek birşey bulamıyorum. Neitraluri informacia ha? Vay be. Biz de aptalız, ne neutral bilmiyoruz.--Macahel 14:58, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Zalian samcuxaroa rom egetebi xdeba. mainc didi madloba rom cdilobdi simartlis dacvas. kargad, --Kober 16:17, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

* Koberav meg kaci gablayuneps, Senac jerop. TurqeTSi mag kacep vinme yur ar aZlevs. magnairebis laparikebi saqarTvelos da TurqeTis karqobisTin arali.isea rom,bevrisTin saqarTvelo da qarTvelebi saZulveli gaxTa.esec ase icode--Macahel 14:58, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

sazulveli ratom gaxda, macahel? Rame davushavet? --Kober 16:28, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

* ratom da magnairi kacebis laparikebi... es karqaT geigeniT rom TurqetSi qarTveli arali.sxva lapariki ar unda.. saqartvelom da qartvelebma rac unda is Tqvan, is maTi problemia.Tqven xart qarT-leli, ambobt amistin (xristianobas ertat) qarT-veli. arc aWaraSi arc TurqeTSi qarT-leli vinme arali. xrisTianic ar varT. muslimani varT. imisTin vambobT rom Cven (etnikuraT) varT, aWar-eli,gurji,Cveneburi! vincxa amis ukuRmas ambobs is ari (kartvelian lobby). Tu aWar-elia da ambobs rom me qarT-leli/qarT-veli var, meg ari sacodvavi. --Macahel 16:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

* ratom gahersTi batono koberav, me rom racxas gebnevi tyvili arali. Camodi TurqetSi (aWaris soflefSi) da damanaxie qarTveli var vo vin ambobs. Sen givlia magnairebis erTat da ggonia rom yvelai mase fiqrofs. qarTveloba rari karqaT vici, moqalaqobas ar gebnevi batono, qarT-leloba, xristianoba da qarTveloba.. eseni Tqveni (qarT-lelebis/qarT-velebis) problemia.Cven arc qarT-leli arc da qarTveli vart, esec icode karqaT.Side s rana Sevxedo, wores ar laparikops rom.. isic ari aWar-eli, bodavs rom qart-leli/qart-veli var..erTic muslimanivar vo ambobs... xristianoba da qarTveloba (moqalaqobas ar vambop) erTia manac karqa icis, memrec ambobs rom muslimanivar... aba Sen ici, Tu ginda mag tyvilef usmine da iyav--Macahel 17:36, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kvela adamians akvs mxolod erti carsuli, romelic exeba mas

Ukacravad Kober, rom shens adgils vikaveb.
Macahel! Damisvi ramdenime sakitxi, turkulad da bolod mec gipavsuxe. Eg iko chemi pasuxi:
Shen, terminebi ar ici, ras nishnavs termini, mgoni egec ar ici. Me Kartveli var, ratkma unda rom religiit Maxmadiani. Ajarloba erovneba ar aris, magram shen dzalian ginda rom ikos sxva erovneba, magram araris, ras icam. Religia da erovneba, sxva kategoria. Shen gonia rom Kartveli nishnavs religias, araris ase. Magalitad İranshi, Fereydanshi, Kartleli Kartvelebi arian, da shen gonio rom egenic Kristianebi arian? Shen mixedvit, eg xalxi unda ikon Kristianebi rom gadasaxles Kartli’dan? Ra unda vutxrat am xals axla? Acharlebi? Egeni, Shiitebi arian, musulmanebi, magram arian Kartvelebic. Da Ajarlebi, Kartluri jgupia. Svanebi da Megrelebi Karveluri jgupad itvlebian. Kartveli (Kartveluri), zeda terminia, da am terminshi shedis kvela etnograpiuri da religiuri jgupepi. Rogorc Turketshi, roca rom vitkvit Cherkezi da am terminshi shedis Adigeebi, Kabardelebi, “Cherkezebi”, Shapsugebi da ase. Termin Kartvelic asetia, magram ratkma unda rom am terminis pudze Kartluria. Kvela termini asetia, ert ramestan akvs axlo kavshiri, magram nishnavs upro parto rames. Sxva magaliti erti kide, roca rom vambobt “Turkebi”, eg nishnavs turketis turkebs, da kide nihnavs kvela turks, Azerbaijanlebs, Turkmenebs, Kirgizebs, Uzbekebs, Kazaxebs da ratkma unda Kristian Gagauzebsac. Erovneba ar itvaliscinebs religias. Chven, Acareli, Artvineli, Machaxleli, İmerxevli (da ase..) maxmadianebi, ratom ar vart Arabebi, amitom rom chven Kartvelebi vart. Da shen kide urev am terminebsac: ena, diyalekti, kutxuri. Ajaruli calke ena araris, amitom, ar akvs didi gansxvaveba. Amitomac ar icereba (ar iceraba nishnavs turkulshi: yazılmıyor, yani ayrıca bir yazı dili-yazılı dil değil.) Magalitad Artvinis turkulshic arsebobs dzalian bevri kartuli sitkva, magram eg kutxuri mainc turkulia. Da upro kargi magaliti, Turk Yorukebis enaa, da Yorukuli (Yörük ağzı) zalian gansxvavebuli kutxuria, magram ar aris calke ena da ratkma unda rom ar icereba Yorukuli. Sakartveloshi, didi gansxvaveba akvs Megruls da Svanurs, ara danarchens diyalektebs. Da klav getkoba rom egec ar ici, Ajaruli dziritad Gurulia, Guriis kartulia. Ert enashi tu aris bevri ucxo sitkva, eg enas ar shecvlis, ena sxva parametrebit enaa, ara mxolod sitkvebit. Me var (maxmadiani) kartveli da vemsaxurebi chems mshobliur enas, chems tavisi kulturas, chems tavisi carsuls, chems ded-mamas sinatres, chems guls, chems adamianobas, chems vadzhkacobas da ratkma unda rom kvela kartveli emsaxureba aseti cesebs, amitom me da sakartvelos kartvelebi ert da igives vcert. Kargad ikavi da unda iscavlo cota kidec... --SidE 13:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Da mere momcere klav turkulad da mokled mitxari rom -egeni kartvelta zkaprebia, da arc arsebobda sitkva Kartveli 1918 clemde, vkelaperi gamogonilia-. Chemtvis eg informacia noitraluri informaciaa, mogcons tu ara eg sheni problemaa. Mainteresebs, shennairebs rodis ukvardat sakartvelo da kartvelebi, da gaxda sazulveli? Droshis shemdeg? Shen turkul vikishi cer kvelapers sakartvelos da kartvelebis zinaagmdeg, da dacini kartul termineb, eg kvelaperi axlac arsebobs. Samxret Oseti, rodis iko avtonomiuri respuplika rom shen sheitane am kategorshi. Bolo sitkva da aghar mogcer, amitom, shen ara xar amis ghirsi: Shennairebi mudam ikvnen sakartvelos zinaagmdegi, da dgesac xart, chventvis araris eg sakvirveli, magram tkven ara xart Turketi. --SidE 06:24, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

for Kober, wait for flash

Wow! Great job, Luis. You are the best. --Kober 16:27, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

My dear Givi, there is no point of be editing that article. Please take care of it, I'll back you up if things go very bad. Also Khoikhoi will help, he is fair and NPOV man indeed :) I'll concentrate more on Geo History, Ethiopians, Copts and upload images which i buy and make. I also have to answer your email. The organizer of that gallery was Malcolm Linton and IAG Abkhazeti members, Mito Khipiani, George Nikoladze, Nikoloz Chketiani and others. Photos are by my friend Mito Khipiani. I will be in Georgia with 2 professors from British Columnia University in May of 2007 and also in October. We can meet at "hinsklis saxli" :) We'll take Soso too. BTW im very impressed with your english skills and talent for creative writing. You should study in West. Let me know about your future academic aspirations. Talk to you later Givi! Ldingley 19:31, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, Luis. I'll answer you through email. --Kober 03:15, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

You should get more people involved. Ask anyone to help you, you'll not be alone this way. Post on village pump, WP:ANI and so on...you'll be a winner, just keep working. I admire you and your people. Don't let yourself to Russians.

Hi Kober! we can speak by email. --Georgianis 11:41, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi. I'm online right now. --Kober 11:45, 13 August 2006 (UTC) Me too. If you have yahoo messenger we can speak.--Georgianis 11:46, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I have not, unfortunately. You can send me an email via a link in the sidebar.--Kober 11:47, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

OK. I will send you :) --Georgianis 11:49, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Just send you :) --Georgianis 11:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)\

[edit] Anti-Georgian discrimination

We should write this article and try to expand it. Can Luis help us? Talk with him. --Georgianis 12:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure about this article. The title seems a bit vague. How about to transfer its content to the Ethnic cleansing of Georgians in Abkhazia article? I'll also consult with Luis. --Kober 12:27, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

It may be possible. BTW read my email. I made this article since there is an article on Anti-Semitism, Anti-...almost all countries. So, why not for Georgia as well? Because the Ethnic cleansing of Georgians in Abkhazia article refers only to the specific conflict, and God knows during the history Georgia has many enemies and hatred towards its people. --Georgianis 12:36, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

You have a point. Anti-Georgian setiments can also be viewed as part of Caucasophobia and Anti-national sentiment in Russia. Recently, a Georgian student was killed by skinheads. Btw, one of the reasons for such attitude is Georgia's association with Stalin though he never associated himself with Georgia. I think we can somehow mention this in the article. One more detail, Georgians and their Laz relatives constitute large ethnic groups in Turkey. They are not however granted an ethnic minority status contrary to Greeks and Armenians, and have been subjected to intense assimilation for centuries.--Kober 12:46, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

You see. Very good info. We'll mention all about it.Georgianis 12:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

:) Got email. Take care. G.--Georgianis 14:46, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Pls see page of Luis :( --Georgianis 17:36, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad, let's hope to come back soon and give us a truely friendly hand to deal with these articles. We need him very strong.--Georgianis 17:49, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Let's move the article to Russian-Georgian war in Abkhazia

Let's move the article to Russian-Georgian war in Abkhazia. What do you say? --Georgianis 09:30, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Kober, please see my sig :) What do you say? Georgianis | (t) 18:14, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Please see my contributions from today. I was really brave :) -- Georgianis | (t) 20:17, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

This user supports Georgia's bid to join European Union.

Also this box..:) -- Georgianis | (t) 20:26, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Please read your e-mail I will write you soon. :) Georgianis | (t) 12:25, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Never again!

There was a Genocide awareness gallery in LA, which included photos of ethnic-cleansing in Abkhazia. I just got this link from my friend.

http://www.abkhazeti.ru/new/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=241

Never again Rwanda, Sudan, Bosnia, Chechnya, Abkhazia, etc! Ldingley 14:37, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

May the god save us from such horrors, my dear friend! Thanks for the link, Luis. I was a bit disappointed when I read that the Geo. embassy in the US did not sent its representative to the exhibition and did not help its organizers. All the best, --Kober 16:25, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Georgian March

Hey Kober, I found this old Soviet WWII song online. Tell me what you think. -- Clevelander 15:26, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, yes, I believe this is Ippolitov-Ivanov's work. To correct my earlier mistake, this piece was not from WWII, it actually composed prior to the 1917 revolution. This a later recording. -- Clevelander 16:29, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Yes. I know, I know. However, I know Bonaparte and his behavior seems very, very similar. I'll remove the tag as it doesn't really matter either way. However, ask Luis to forward my email to you. He'll know which one. —Khoikhoi 18:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

You may know Bonaparte but you don't know Georgianis. Maybe you can send me also that email.

Georgianis | (t) 18:16, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Maybe not. —Khoikhoi 18:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Why not? Is it secret? Why can I not see it? At least to have common sense to send me.

Georgianis | (t) 18:23, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nakhichevan and Georgia

Hey Kober, Grandmaster wrote this on the Nakhichevan talk page in response to me adding the information regarding it as part of Georgia:

Please check the article about atabeks of Azerbaijan in Iranica. It says that atabeks paid tribute to Georgians and nominally accepted their overlordship, when the state of atabeks was in decline. But it does not say that Nakhichevan was part of Georgian state. It might need better wording.

Help out if you can. -- Clevelander 11:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks and I responded on the talk page. -- Clevelander 12:28, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Grandmaster posted a modified version of the text regarding Nakhichevan and Georgia on the talk page. Be sure to give your feedback. -- Clevelander 11:19, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ajarians, Svans, Mingrelians

The Wikipedia articles are not only about "separate" ethnic groups, but about ethnic sub-groups as well, even about regional groups. Check those: Bosnians, Herzegovinians, Bokelji, Shopi, etc, etc. These groups (excluding Shopi) are not even etnographic subgroups, but simply geographical names for people that inhabit these regions. So, if articles about these groups exist, why not about Ajarians, Svans, and Mingrelians because their "case" is much stronger to have their own articles (which do not imply that they are "separate" from other Georgians). Maybe in the future articles about other ethnographic subgroups of Georgians could be written too (Gurians, Imertians, etc). Regarding the problem that these new articles "duplicate info in the corresponding articles on regions", that might be the case now, but I hope that other users will expand these ethnographic articles in the future, thus most of the information about those ethnographic groups will be located within their own articles, while articles about regions will only briefly mention its inhabitants. PANONIAN (talk) 14:00, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Out of the question. These grous are not even sub ethnic. Their ethnicity is qartvelian (Georgian). They should be included in Georgian people article. Please dont compare Svans, Mingrelians and Ajarians to Bosniaks (thery are separate nation BTW). Whats next? articles about Tbiliselians and Kutaisians? The only qartvelian sub ethnic group are Laz. Ldingley 14:08, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I do not compare them with Bosniaks, but with Bosnians. Try to notice a difference, ok? PANONIAN (talk) 15:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

And, as I said, no matter if they are ethnographic or simply regional-geographical groups, there is no reason why articles about them should not exist. There are also articles about regional-geographical groups on Wikipedia (and I showed some examples here already). PANONIAN (talk) 15:42, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

OK. I have no problem with having the articles about them provided these groups are properly classified. I'll add more info to these artciles as time permits.--Kober 15:56, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok. Sure. Than besides "This user supports the aims of the people of Abkhazia." Dont forget to include "This user supports the aims of the people of Kosovo," and "This user does not belive in internationally recognized state borders of Serbia." Cheers :) Ldingley 15:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Kosovo is already independent, so there is no reason to support them. And you obviously did not read "This user does not believe in sovereignty and territorial integrity of any state." :) Did you? PANONIAN (talk) 21:17, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Kober, "Zordania...second Head of the Government of the DRG" who was first? Noe Ramishvili? Ldingley 14:15, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Exactly right. He chaired the gov in 1918 and then served as a interior minister. He was killed by the Commies in the 1930s. I'll try to find his bio. Cheers, --Kober 14:27, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Koberovich, I started but its nothing almost Noe Ramishvili :) i cant find his bio, only in books. I will go to library and research about him. As i know he became leader of Georgian Comittee in Germany and also was a member of White George. Ldingley 14:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Good job, my dear friend. Join you soon...--Kober 15:56, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Javakhishvili

Sir Oliver in his book on Georgian history writes: In 1913, Georgian historian Ivane Javakhishvili wrote: "Population of Kholkhis was divided into three sub categories of georgians (kartvelians): Laz-Mingrelian, Apsil-Abkhazs and Svans." Ancient Apsils spoke Laz-Mingrelian, and were offshoots of Laz people just like modern day Mingrelians who dominated the Kingdom of Lazica. Interesting eh? Ldingley 15:35, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Tagging for Image:Nahichevan city coa 1843.JPG

Thanks for uploading Image:Nahichevan city coa 1843.JPG. However, the copyright tag you've used is deprecated or obsolete, and should not be used. This could be because the tag is inaccurate or misleading, or because it does not adequately specify the copyright status of the image. For a list of copyright tags that are in current use, see the "Public domain", "Free license", and "Fair use" sections of Wikipedia:Image copyright tags.

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 18:05, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey Kober! Thanks for the image! Just to let you know though, I uploaded a slightly higer-quality PNG version. Thanks again for all your help on the Nakhichevan article. -- Clevelander 23:16, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

You are welcome, Cleve. Cheers, --Kober 02:54, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Request

I am off to Abkhazia for a holiday, I was wondering are there any areas where images might be necessary, I will definitely visit Novy Afon and its Metro (a passion is a passion), but its not like I will be tied down to one place, so if there are any specific places that articles could use a few good shots let me know by the 22nd. Also can you check the article ru:Тбилисский метрополитен on ru-wiki?--Kuban Cossack 01:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New article

Hey Kober,

I just wanted you let you know that there's a new article called Azeris in Georgia. The information was originally written by 72.136.33.190 (talk • contribs), but it got moved off into it's own article as Azerbaijani people was getting very long. —Khoikhoi 03:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

No problem. :) BTW, how come you never edit the Georgian Wikipedia? —Khoikhoi 04:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I have not done a single contribution to the Georgian Wikipedia mainspace due to time limits. Furthermore, I think en.wiki is the best place to let the world know more about your country :) Ciao,--Kober 05:33, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Georgian lari

Hello. Seeing that you are from Georgia I thought I would ask you what the currency symbol for the Georgian lari is. I am asking you so it can be added to list of circulating currencies and any other pages were it could be included. Thank you! – Zntrip 18:57, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. But isn't there an abbreviated version? For example, what would you find on a receipt? – Zntrip 19:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

No, there is not. However, the first letter ლ is sometimes used unofficially. --Kober 19:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Would that be resonable to add to the list of circulating currencies page? – Zntrip 19:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I think there would be no problem with that. --Kober 19:56, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay than, thanks! – Zntrip 19:57, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome!--Kober 20:01, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] template

Kober, please review this and change it Template:PD-GE-exempt. Thanks in advance. Ldingley 20:06, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Kober-jan :)i needed that template too. I read the Law of Georgia on copyright and its identical to Ukrainian one. Please don’t feel bad for my corrections. Indeed, there were some intellectuals but mostly nationalists. Fortunately there were also Abkhaz intellectuals who opposed the separatist agenda but they were silenced. Ldingley 16:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

BTW Georgia(country) is in huge mess :) Ldingley 16:19, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Kober, you article on History of Abkhazia is great. Well written and composed. Its very rare to have a talent for creative and scholastic writing. I also have very limited time but i will join you in editing those articles which you listed. Our strength is in unity :) All the best. Ldingley 16:52, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Mr Kober, please review History of Georgia (country). Thanks Ldingley 18:01, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chokha

gaumarjos Kober, Chokha statiis drafti davcere da gtxov naxe da damaate suratebi tu gaqvs. Thanks 19:30, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Abkhazia

Hey Kober. Thanks for the citation, I found it hard to read and but important information at the same time. I belive Luis was actually there (in the stadium) at the time, I'm not sure if he told you that, but he said that he didn't want to go into details. Now I know why. I agree that we should mention the current events in Abkhazia, as I said, it's important information.

I saw your draft, and I have to say that I now know for certain that you are not ethnically-biased. :) I really liked it how you showed the two theories (proto-Abkhaz- & Abaza vs. proto Kartvelian), as well as the Abkhazian POV in the Russian rule section. I was wondering, once you create the History of Abkhazia article, however, it won't match the history section in the Abkhazia article, are you planning on revising that as well? You might want to work the Abkhaz Muhajirs (see Muhajir Caucasian for information about Abkhazia) into the text as well. However, their life in the Ottoman Empire isn't that relevant to Abkhazia, but the Abkhaz people in general, which is why just the part about the expulsion will do. Anyways, great job on the article, it made me very happy to see it, and I'll try to read the whole thing when I have the time.

BTW, you should try FA for some of your better articles sometime, or at least PR. Cheers. —Khoikhoi 04:49, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

No problem Kober, I agree that the article needs some updates. Ciao. —Khoikhoi 00:12, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree with Khoi. Kober has demonstrated (as he did many times before) total NPOV and fair approach to the very sensitive subject for his country. The Abkhazia History article is very well written in terms of content, language, NPOV, and clarity. Most of the contact which is presented in that article I have read before in various western sources. Khoi is correct, we should have page about Mukhazirstvo, which was conducted by Russian tsarist army with the scale of genocidal war against the tribes of Shapsugs, Apswa, etc. The controversy over proto-abkhaz tribes of Apsils and Abaza is highly disputed. There are no traces of Apsils or Abazgs left to compare with modern day Abkhaz (Apsua). Many scholars claim that these tribes were of Svan origin, Laz origin, Mingrelian origin and North Caucasian origin. In fact, there has been evidence available from middle ages which indicate that Apsils spoke Laz. However, the Henochi tribe which populated Abkhazia since the days of Noah's ark is a proto-georgian tribe from which Colchians, Chans, Lazs and Svans have originated. Even the term "Abkhazian" was used to call western Georgians who populated the kingdoms of Lazica, Egrisi and Aphkhazeti. For example according to the middle-age chronicles of Armenians and Georgians, George I Kurapalates was King of "qartlta da aphkhazta" trans: kartlians (eastern Georgians) and abkhazians (western Georgians). Some scholars claim that Apsuas took their name from these middle age western Georgians who were called the Abkhazians. Well all of these is highly disputed and due to reality of current events, it’s very hard to find compromise. I don’t think Wikipedia can achieve it if academia has failed many times before. :) Ldingley 15:36, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Kober, the following is from the book by vakhtang Kolbaia (Mingrelo-Abkhaz historian), a very good scholar:

In 1916 an Abkhaz delegation arrived to Tbilisi with cultural and economic development project of the region demanding to convert Sukhumi oblast into a separate province. At the same time they asked, against Russia's will, not to separate the Sukhumi Eparchy from the Georgian Church.

In 1917, after the February and October Revolutions, Russia attempted to deepen the tension between Georgians and Abkhazs. Abkhazia became a constituent part of the Union of Mountain Peoples of the Caucasus. Later Cossacks and Steppe Free People formations joined the Union.

On November 8, 1917 Abkhazs convened the Assembly. They established the Abkhaz People’s Council (APC), comprising only ethnic Abkhazs. The Assembly adopted the Constitution of APC and the Declaration. On February 9, 1918, before adoption of the Declaration of the Independence of Georgia, the APC delegation had arrived in Tbilisi to elaborate the agreement between APC and the Georgian Government. Abkhazia was granted the autonomous status within Georgia. In June of 1918 APC and Democratic Republic of Georgia signed a document. All domestic affairs were to be under the jurisdiction of Abkhazia. The central government established the post of Minister of Abkhaz Affairs. R. Emkhvari was appointed Minister. Thus, Abkhaz autonomy was approved after the adoption of the Declaration of Independence of Georgia and before the adoption of the Constitution of Georgia (February 1921). Abkhaz autonomy was officially approved. The claim of Abkhaz separatists, that the restoration of the 1921 Georgian Constitution abolished the autonomy of Abkhazia is inaccurate. Moreover, the first provision of the Declaration of February 21, 1992, which reinstated 1921 Georgian Constitution, states that this main law is in force within the Georgia’s present boundaries retaining autonomous status of both, Abkhazia and Ajara.

In October of 1920 APC adopted the draft Constitution of Abkhazia, once again emphasizing the status of Abkhazia as an autonomous body within Georgia. It is interesting to note that the eighth provision of the draft –Constitution read: “common affairs for Georgia and Abkhazia are the followings: a) Foreign Affairs… b) Currency system… c) Customs…d) Post and telegraph offices… e) Army; but Abkhaz soldiers are conscripted by the territorial principals and serve only on the territory of Abkhazia except wartime. During the peacetime, allocation of any other forces is a subject of special permission of APC.” 2 The status of Abkhaz autonomy had been approved by the constitution of Georgia of 1921.

The fact, that in 1920 Georgian government appealed to ANTANTA with the demand to return deported Abkhazs from Turkey, is an evidence of the high consideration of Abkhaz nation.

In February and March of 1921, the Soviet Russia occupied and annexed the Democratic Republic of Georgia. On March 4, 1921, the Soviet Socialist Republic of Abkhazia was proclaimed. It was fully dependent on the Georgian Socialist Republic and Transcaucusion Federal Republic, both, politically and economically. The Central Committee of RKP (B) did not consider Abkhazia an independent entity. In July 1921 the Caucasus Bureau made a statement: "1. Exercise the independence of Transcaucasian republics (Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia)…" On November 1, 1921 the Presidium of the Caucasus Bureau had the special discussion on Abkhazia; the Special Commission had been instructed to elaborate a draft treaty between the Abkhaz and Georgian Republics. The representative of Abkhazia, E. Eshba, protested this proposal and in November 14, 1921, wrote a letter to the Caucasus Bureau, asking the direct subordination of Abkhazia to the Transcaucasion Federal Republic. The issue was resolved on November 16 at the meeting of Presidium.

The resolution adopted by the Presidium considered the existence of independent Abkhazia unreasonable.3 On December 16 Abkhazia was granted the status of a so-called Treaty-based Republic and, as a practical matter, became the part of Georgia. The Treaty was signed in Tbilisi. According to the Agreement: "… 1. The Soviet Socialist Republic of Georgia and the Soviet Socialist Republic of Abkhazia are to conclude an alliance in Military, Political and Fiscal-Economic fields; 2. To fulfill the previous paragraph both governments are to unite the following Commissariats: a. Defense; b. Finances; c. Military Industry; d. Post and Telegraph; e. Emergency Commission; f. Worker-peasant Inspectorate; j. Justice; h. Maritime transportation. Foreign Affairs remain under the supervision of Georgia; Foreign Trade is to be responsibility of the joint institution of Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia. 3. The Standing order of joint Commissariats is to be elaborated by the agreement of both governments; 4. To all regional unions Abkhazia is to affiliate only from/through Georgia…"4 In 1931 by the resolution of Georgian and Abkhaz Assemblies Abkhazia takes the status of an Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic within the Georgian ASSR.

Kober, besides mass execution of young "yunkers" i don’t know the real estimate of dead during the soviet aggression on Tbilisi in 1921. There was also the rebellion of Cholokhashvili and killing of Georgian aristocrats in the woods near Tbilisi (if you go to the Soviet occupation Museum in Georgia, there are tons of materials and photographs of that). I do have an access to the DL book on modern History of Georgia. I can make a photocopy and send you via post mail. let me know what specifically you need from that book. I wanted to write also the section on Russian annexation of Georgia during the King Erekle II. I'll gather more sources. Ldingley 17:21, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Kober do you need a photocopy of DL book? I can do it gladly. Ldingley 17:45, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

There would be no problem if Georgian postal officer would not thief the package :) Email me your postal address. Ldingley 17:54, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Georgians are like French, they immediately open barricades and protest non stop :) which is good on some way:) Ldingley 18:11, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Andrew Andersen

Kober, I need you to make the case to Grandmaster on the Nakhichevan talk page that Andersen is a credible source. Thanks! -- Clevelander 11:20, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Turkish version

This map was on Turkish version of Georgia (ountry) http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resim:Real_georgia.jpg

I reverted the vandalism. This abkhaz Turkish editor changes the name of President of Georgia from Saaakshvili to Bush. He also vandalizes the Abkhazia article of Turkish version. Ldingley 22:09, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] infobox

Kober, please review Template:Georgia infobox. Thanks. Ldingley 18:40, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Kober, shame on Georgians! Gvirgvliani page is huge while there is no article about great Christian martyr Queen Ketevan.

ohhh hahaha Sorry Kober :)) Amazing. :) I just could not find anything on ketevan. Hey BTW did you ever hear of the book by Theodore Edward Dowling? He was the archbishop of the Anglican church (im Anglican) in Jerusalem (1914). He wrote an amazing book called: Sketches of Georgian Church History. I just got the copy from Bodleian Library.

Mr Kober, are the dates correct on the infobox? (christianity, estb colchis and iberia, united georgian kingdom)?Ldingley 20:12, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

with Langs book (im going to University of Toronto to get it), I'll send you this one too. You have to have it in your collection. Kober did they find the remains of Ketevan in Portugal?

No no sorry, it was published in 1912 in London. He lived in Jerusalem. Actually he loved Georgia tremendously. He is considered as one of the most important Anglicans of our church. He advocated in favour of the Orthodox to receive communion in the Anglican church and he achieved that. Ldingley 20:22, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. They should have an archeologist expedition to India. Not every nation has Queens like Ketevan. BTW is it true that Queen Rusulad had many lovers? :) hehehe Ldingley 20:24, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

So did British when it came to Queen of Scots :) Ok Givi, I'll go home. Its another beer drinking day of crazy Scotsman gathering in the pub (English are highly recommended to stay home) :) I'll email you. Have a great weekend mydear friend. Ldingley 20:33, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

აუ ეს სადა ვართ ადმინისტრატორებიც კი კომუნისტები არიან! Sosomk 17:17, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abkhazia

Dear Kober. Im really disappointed in Khoikhois remarks which were completely un-neutral and kid of disrespect for people who have equal rights to that city as the Abkhaz. Im tired of double standards among some editors and fail to understand their hidden agendas. Many people were killed horrifically due to these disputed, claims and confrontations. Out of respect for these people, I never take sides and especially in Abkhazia case. I and many other western photographers, journalist, free lancers, etc witnessed one of the most tragic events in Abkhazia. Mass slaughter, rape, torture, and sadistic treatment of fellow humans can only be understood as demonic and un-humane. I confess that before going there and studying the topic I had my own pro-separatist POVs. I support independence of Scotland, Chechnya, Tibet but I fail to understand that for accomplishing this “independence” one must kill all living beings who belong to other ethnic group. That’s why I don’t believe in their aims for independence. Abkhaz have betrayed their independence as soon as they carried out those massacres. But I can’t stop admiring your efforts. Your article on Abkhazia History is a perfect example of NPOV. Both of us are wasting our time on wikipedia. In my opinion, this web site has failed to deliver the integrity and truthfulness of any event. Anybody can edit and manipulate the data base don their own agenda. It’s up to you to decide on the content. I think it should be on the conflict article too. It looks great. I don’t know where you found time to do that research. It’s very accurate. As for Sukhumi, it’s not up to Khoikhoi to decide the valid name of the city. It was Sukhumi and it will stay Sukhumi. Ldingley 18:09, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

p.s we should have another version of Sukhumi, like Sukhumburg :) Im sure germans would be happy or Sukhumgrad :) Ldingley 21:20, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Menshevik Che-guara needs georgianized name :)

Mr Koberbash or Koberashba (abkhanization of your name LOL) we need georgian text of the name for Noe Zhordania. Please georgianize him when you have time :0) Thanks. Ldingley 21:20, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

გეთანხმები რაც შეეხება პროპაგანდს, მაგას ისაც აღსანიშნავია რომ ადმინისტრატორი აშკარად იხრება ვიღაც რუსი მომხმარებლისკენ ვიდრე ცნობილი ენციკლოპედიისკენ და ამეიკის სი აი ეი სკენ რომელიც ხაზგასმით უნდა ითქვას ამერიკის ინტელიგენციის სააგენტოა. User:Koikhoi თავიდანვე არ მომწონდა და ეხლა უკვე აშკარად გამოავლინა თავისი იდეები.

ვირჯინიაში ბიზნესის ადმინისტრირებასა დ ბუღალტერიის ფაკულტეტზე და თან მეორადზე პოლიტოლოგიას ვსწავლობ. აქაური სისტემის მიხედვით major და minor ეძახიან. მეორე კურსზე ვარ Randolph-Macon College ში. შენ რა ფაკულტეტი გაქვს დამთავრებული. შენი სტატიებით თუ ვიმსჯელებთ ისტორიული :).

დიდი სურვილი მაქვს გაგიცნოთ შენც და ლუისიც, მაგრამ თბილისში 29 მაისს ჩამოვდივარ თუ ისე მოგვიხერხდება რომ შენც და ლუისიც ქალაქში იყოთ ძალიან კაი იქნება. საუკუთესი სურვილებით. სოსო Sosomk 00:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

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