Talk:Jethro Tull (band)

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Contents 1 Biography? 2 Influence on Iommi? 3 Tull is Progressive? 4 "Music of this music"? 5 Too Old to Rock 'n' Roll vs. A Passion Play 6 Side Bars 7 New Album? 8 Tull 9 Living in the Past most popular with fans...? 10 Recent additions 11 The "A" Album 12 "Sahi group hai boss." 13 And again... 14 Should we comment on the length of... 15 Live Aqualung: Only commercial in europe? 16 Tony Williams link 17 A Jethro Tull forum? 18 Wife of Ian Anderson 19 Suggestion on The Early Days Article 20 Does this page need the extensive discography info? 21 EP's? 22 Mark Craney back from the dead! 23 Editorializing in main article? 24 List of Members and Instruments 25 Led Zep and "Jethro Dull" 26 Rock And Roll Circus 27 Glenn Cornick On Aqualung

[edit] Biography?

I have to ask myself, why is this article in WPBiography? Jethro Tull is a band, not a person. --Bill W. Smith, Jr. 15:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Seconded. Surely, this is just a mistake by some over-eager contributor from the WPBiography-brigade? --Barend 19:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Other talk pages of musical group articles seem to be tagged with {{WPBiography}} too, see for example Talk:Absoluuttinen Nollapiste and Talk:King Crimson. --KFP (talk | contribs) 20:06, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

So many always seem to think Ian's name IS Jethro Tull, maybe that is the confusion? :) --Bill W. Smith, Jr. 02:42, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Influence on Iommi?

This recent addition - "Iommi, for his part, was apparently so impressed with Tull's rehearsal discipline that he resolved to be just as firm with his bands. His success may be partly attributed to his time with Tull" appears to be speculation. If the source material cited just previously makes this claim, then the citation should follow the entire paragraph. Brendano Every time I edit the passage, adding that Martin Barre was a member of Fat Matress with Noel Redding, someone erases it, why?

The information can be found on Iommi's wikipage. Here, I'll paste a quote from the page Tony Iommi:

"Tony Iommi says about his working-relation with Ian Anderson, which maybe contributed to the success of Black Sabbath:

I learned quite a lot from him, I must say. I learned that you have got to work at it. You have to rehearse. When I came back and I got the band (Black Sabbath) back together, I made sure that everybody was up early in the morning and rehearsing. I used to go and pick them up. I was the only one at the time that could drive. I used to have to drive the bloody van and get them up at quarter of nine every morning; which was, believe me, early for us then. I said to them, "This is how we have got to do it because this is how Jethro Tull did it." They had a schedule and they knew that they were going to work from this time till that time. I tried that with our band and we got into doing it. It worked. Instead of just strolling in at any hour, it made it more like we were saying, "Let’s do it!"

Clearly, it is not speculation if this came from Iommi. -Chewbacca 06:45, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tull is Progressive?

Deliberate provocation, hoping for a better article, from a decidedly unimpressed listener.

Here is most of the text from this article, keywords in bold: "Jethro Tull is a progressive rock band that was formed in 1968. They play very advanced rock music with influences from a lot of musical genres."

Annotation:

1. progressive is a marketing category and JT certainly belongs in it along with Yes, King Crimson, whoever.
2. very advanced is a musical judgement that seems to me to require some support from an article author. To me JT is idiosyncratic and fashioned to fit the odd musical talents of the leader, but it neither comes from any musical tradition nor contributes to any, a hermetically sealed experience. If you like JT, you like 'em, but if you don't like 'em, you can ignore 'em. The same doesn't go, say, for Yes, which has been a true avatar progressive rock, or King Crimson, which has influenced not only rock, but jazz and modern music in general.
3. influences should be identified.

Please note, progressive rock does nothing for me, but I do think it's an important part of musical history and should be documented seriously and carefully, hence this note. James Moody is my idea of a rocking flautist. Ortolan88

Someone had posted a statement that Keith Emerson played keyboards on Thick as a Brick. The truth is that Emerson has never played with Tull. The vast majority of Tull keyboard parts during the 1970's were played by the great John Evan, whose playing in Thick as a Brick certainly qualifies as being "progressive." --TheOverseer4003 03:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I notice the word progressive has been removed in subsequent edits. When I initially viewd the article I instantly reached for the edit button, then decided to read here first. I don't see any concensus here for it's removeal and would put it back myself. --Bill W. Smith, Jr. 21:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Music of this music"?

"...perhaps the first time many Tull fans had the opportunity to hear music of this music..." - huh? I could correct this, if I had the slightest idea what the writer meant to say ;) Tualha 06:44, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I edited it for readability. Ended up just re-writing that whole paragraph, since it predates my original overhaul of the article. -mhr 07:14, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

---

[edit] Too Old to Rock 'n' Roll vs. A Passion Play

An addition to the article states:

1976's Too Old to Rock 'n' Roll: Too Young to Die! was another concept album, this time about the life of an aging rocker. Anderson, stung by critical reviews (particularly of A Passion Play), responded by recycling many of the tunes from that work, reorchestrating them and providing new, sharply-barbed lyrics. The press seemed oblivious to the ploy, and instead asked if the title track was autobiographical—a charge Anderson hotly denied.

I think they definitely meant WarChild when they said Too Old to Rock and Roll. WarChild has songs that sound like A Passion Play in some ways.--TheOverseer4003 03:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

This is the first I've ever heard of this. Too Old to Rock 'n' Roll has never sounded anything like Passion Play to me. The melodies and arrangements are completely different. What's the source for this? -mhr 18:49, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Just listen to it. It stands out like dog's balls. Tannin 18:55, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC) The arrangements are indeed completely different. But many of the melodies are a straight lift. One assumes that Anderson had a good chuckle out of it. Tannin

Um, I've been listening to Tull for half my life. I've never seen any similarity between the two albums. I see little similarity between "Crazed Institution" or "Quizz Kid" or the title track and Passion Play. (Besides, since when does Passion Play have melodies? :-) In any event, unless there's objective evidence that Anderson really did "recycle" the melodies (by which I mean, Anderson came out and said so at some point), I think the most that should be said in the 'pedia is that the two sound similar to some fans (well, to one fan, anyway). -mhr 21:49, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

A recycled melody is objective, Michael, in and of itself. A recorded sequence of notes is an objective fact. The fact that you haven't noticed it yet is neither here nor there.

My copy of Too Old has disappeared somewhere, but when I locate it (or, more likely, buy another copy - I bet you I lent it to someone), I'll walk you through it track by track. There are three or four major melodies that are straight lifts from A Passion Play. We should certainly not say that the two albums "sound similar", as they do not. The oprcestration is entirely different, as are the lyrics. Tannin

I don't really get how the albums can share melodies and yet "sound different". If they truly share melodies, there ought to be some significant similarity.

Are you sure you're not mixing up A Passion Play with the "Chateau D'Isaster Tapes" (from 20 Years and Nightcap)? Those two sets definitely share melodies and sound very much the same, because they were recorded within a year of each other after the latter was abandoned (though somehow the band managed to throw out most of the interesting stuff from the Chateau tapes). For that matter, I think War Child recycled a little unreleased material from the 1971-73 period (most famously, "Lick Your Fingers Clean" became "Two Fingers" - very different orchestration, but clearly similar songs).

I've been listening to both Too Old to Rock 'n' Roll and Passion Play over the last couple of hours and simply do not see any resemblance. While it's possible there are similar or identical melodies at times, the effect is very subtle (far more subtle than, say, the guitar riff on The Who's "Don't Let Go the Coat" and Indigo Girls' "Tried to be True", which as far as I know are not connected in any purposeful way and yet share guitar melodies).

Again, unless there's documented evidence that Anderson deliberately re-used melodies, I don't think it's worth mentioning. I certainly don't think it should be claimed that Anderson did so deliberately. -mhr 23:23, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Just as a courtesy, if someone is going to insist that some of Passion Play's melodies were re-used in later tunes, then the person ought to NAME the specific tunes. One's memory of something heard long ago on a lost album, presented vaguely, doesn't count as reliable. To my ears (which may just be inferior after a degree in music and over 40 years of performing) the similarities do NOT stand out like any part of any dog. User:truddick 9 August 2006 19.57 pm EDT

[edit] Side Bars

Some of the albums seem to have different side bars. They aren't there in all of the albums that currently have track listings, and they vary. Can someone more experienced with wiki fix this at any stage? Something similar to what the guys who are doing the Pink Floyd have got is cool. --huwr 06:06, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] New Album?

Who made this note about a new album due out in August and what is the source for this info? DKK

I've checked the official Jethro Tull site a number of times and (sadly) heard nothing to the effect that they had a new album coming out in just a few short (April, for example, has only 30 days) months. Personally I suggest we cut that line off.--Deridolus 07:25, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tull

How is this band's name pronounced? (Tool, as in bull or Tal as in null)

Thanks! 84.94.134.90 16:52, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

AFAIK, Tull rhymes with both bull and null. Other words it rhymes with are skull, full and dull. Hope that helps. DaveTheRed 02:24, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It probably rhymes differently depending on whether you are English or American. I'm American, so "tool" does not rhyme with "bull" nor does "tal" rhyme with "null". Think of David Bowie at the beginning of the song "Andy Warhol" saying "it's Andy Warhull -- like Hull" -- that's how most people I know say it.

No question about it, it rhymes with "null". NEVER heard it pronounced any other way.

It rhymes both with "bull" and "null"? That may be true for Liverpool or Newcastle, but in most of the English speaking world, those two options exclude each other.--Unoffensive text or character 12:13, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Living in the Past most popular with fans...?

I've never met a Tull fan who thought Living in the Past was the best Tull album. Usually casual listeners prefer Aqualung, and the big fans like Minstrel in the Gallery, Thick as a Brick, or even A Passion Play. What do you base the "Living in the Past" thing on, if I can ask?

Raekuul: I believe that the article said that the song itself, not the album, was a hit in the UK.Raekuul 00:51, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

This has been reworded to read that fans considers LITP to be one of the band's best compilations, which I think is probably true. It collects many singles/rarities etc. and there's only a few songs culled straight from the studio albums (Teacher, Bourree, Loco Breath, Song for Jeffrey). Serious Tull fans have to agree it's better than M.U. or Repeat or Original Masters!

[edit] Recent additions

I've been a big fan of JT since the mid-70's. Just stumbled across the page and added a good deal of stuff, mostly on musical themes and influences, with some details of lyrics. The description of the '89 tour staging might be considered OR, but I was there and I know what I saw. :-) Brendano 21:41, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The "A" Album

---For whatever reason, though, Anderson released his solo album as a Tull album in 1980.---

This was more or less demanded of Ian by the record label, to whom he (or rather, Jethro Tull) was still contracted to release another album with -as Jethro Tull-. So he recruited a lineup, a bit haphazardly even, and put the JT name on it and did the tour with the band's name. Then he later released another solo album.

[edit] "Sahi group hai boss."

Looks to be a blend of hindi, arabic, and english. Whatever the hell it means, it's not part of the discography of Jethro Tull, so I took it out.

Someone with some spare time might want to look it over for more vandalism, but I've not got time right now.--Deridolus 21:41, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] And again...

Once more there's a notation- underneath the discography- that Ian's preparing to release a new Tull album. And, once again, I've checked the official Tull website and have been unable to find any such announcement during a cursory search.

Could be I'm missing something, I suppose; if anyone cares to post a link verifying that information, I'd be much obliged. If not, I'm giving the line the axe in a few days.--Deridolus 07:05, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

It's gone. If anyone finds any source that says there'll be a new album, put it back in- and include the source.--Deridolus 10:00, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

The March 2006 issue of Classic Rock magazine has a brief interview with Ian Anderson in which he says he'll begin work on "writing and arranging new material" for a new Tull album after he's finished with his current performing commitments. No definite or even approximate release date is mentioned. --Reinder Dijkhuis 22:39, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Should we comment on the length of...

raekuul should we comment on the length of the two US chart toppers? Raekuul 00:50, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Live Aqualung: Only commercial in europe?

I bought the Aqualung Live album recently. Bought. Did not go to any concerts, or go to Europe. It was in the store in Hawaii. Maybe someone can remove the "only commercially released in europe" and make it sound more fluent, I suck at fluency right now. -Chewbacca 06:54, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

It's correct the way it is. Saying it's only commercially released in Europe doesn't mean that you can't buy it in the USA. You can still get it, but it's an import and so it costs more. That's how I got mine, and I live in California. -- ProveIt ^(talk) 08:08, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

The status of the Live Aqualung record has changed a bit. The album now has worldwide commercial release and is supported with a UK tour.--Reinder Dijkhuis 22:34, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tony Williams link

Under the band members links at the bottom of the page, the link to Tony Williams goes to the wiki of Tony Williams the American jazz drummer, and not THIS Tony Williams, whose only other credit I can think of offhand was playing bass (or maybe even rhythm guitar) on Stealer's Wheel's "Stuck in the Middle With You." Somebody should fix that, and it's NOT going to be me. Because I'm lazy.

[edit] A Jethro Tull forum?

I've got a forum set up for Jethro Tull fans at http://www.elitrix.net/raekuul and I'm not sure if I can add it to the list of sites in the article. Do I have clearance?

[edit] Wife of Ian Anderson

Is there any truth to a rumor that I heard that Ian Anderson's wife wrote some or all of JT's lyrics? Does he or did he even have a wife? If this is true at all then it's probably worth mentioning in the article.

Ian's first wife, Jenny Franks, helped write the first few lines of the song "Aqualung." This is her only contribution. Shona Anderson, his current wife (they've been married since around 1976 I think) has no lyric-writing credits in the Tull catalogue.--TheOverseer4003 03:59, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Ian Anderson's first wife co-wrote the lyrics for Aqualung [[1]]. His current wife is Shona Anderson, accroding to Tull's website. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.92.226.207 (talk • contribs) .

Thanks! --Jscherer 06:18, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

A few more details:

Jenny's contribution to "Aqualung" came from a photo course she was taking. She'd written a few lines on a photo she'd shot of a homeless man: "Sun streaking cold, an old man wandering lonely, taking time the only way he knows"--which is the beginning of the slower middle section of Aqualung. Ian told her that it was a promising lyric and began to compose the rest of the song around it.

Jenny and Ian married around 1971, and the songs "Wond'ring Aloud" and "Wond'ring Again" were somewhat inspired by the relationship, as perhaps was "Black Satin Dancer" (Jenny was trained in ballet). She appears as the voice between tracks on "War Child" ("Another cup of tea, dear?). They divorced around 1975, a painful period which Ian Anderson doesn't discuss publicly which inspired the tracks "Requiem" and "One White Duck/0^10=noothing at all" from Minstrel in the Gallery.

Jenny has since remarried and at last account was living in Colorado and active in environmental causes.

Current wife Shona was working as a secretary for the band at that time, and she and Ian married around 1976. The song "Salamander" seems to have been inspired by her (Ian named his publishing company "Salamdander & Son" after the arrival of his firstborn, James).

TR user: truddick 14:30, 9 August 2006 EDT

[edit] Suggestion on The Early Days Article

I think saying 1962-1968 is inaccurate, since Jethro Tull did not formally begin until 1968. Ian Anderson himself states 1968 as the beginning of Tull[[2]], forming out of the remnents of The John Evan Band (1967). There is nothing wrong with what is in the article, but anything before 1968 is before Tull. It should be worded differently. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.92.226.207 (talk • contribs) 19:10, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Does this page need the extensive discography info?

I've noticed the extensive info recently (not sure when exactly) added to the discography portion -- it's now in a table format with chart positions, etc., instead of just the list of the albums.

Is this necessary? I've been a Tull fan forever and I couldn't care less about how high their albums charted! Moreover, Tull is the kind of band where this info isn't relevant -- they didn't make music with the pop charts in mind.

Anybody else agree with me? It seems as if someone put this in here just to add stuff to this page.

[edit] EP's?

Tull had a couple of EP's in the late 1970's, I think. One of them (the "Christmas EP") had 4 tracks and a druid-like cover pic. It sort of presaged Songs from the Wood; the tracks were "Christmas Song", "March the Mad Scientist" (these two found their way onto later albums), one that I've completely forgotten that I think also made it onto an album later, and a really wonderful instrumental piece with similar feeling to "Bourrée" from Stand Up. I don't remember the name of it but I remember pretty well how it goes. Anyone know what I'm talking about? Can the EP's be listed?

Phr (talk) 09:18, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

The instrumental piece was called Pan Dance--I remember that now. A Google search shows it's on "20 Years" and on the 2002 reissue of Minstrel in the Gallery. Whee :) Phr (talk) 00:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I have it, the other two tracks are "Pan Dance" (appeared on the 20-year compilation) and the album track "Ring Out Solstice Bells" from Songs from the Wood. I recall purchasing it in the early 1980s and I believe it followed, rather than presaged, SFTW. I could look it up in one of the Tull bios or websites but feeling too lazy :-) user:truddick 9 August 2006 20:03 pm EDT

[edit] Mark Craney back from the dead!

"Ex-drummer Mark Craney, from the short-lived 1980-1981 line-up, died of diabetes and pneumonia on November 26, 2005. He had suffered through a history of health problems including kidney ailments, paralysis, and a heart condition; a number of Tull members (including Anderson) contributed to a recent charity album, Something With a Pulse, to help Craney pay medical bills and return to health"

This sounds to me like they were trying to help him pay his bills and bring him back from the dead ;-) John85.19.195.170 14:28, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Weird. Could it mean that the charity concert was before he died? I'm not sure how long ago "recently" is.

Someone changed it now anyway, so that's that. 68.145.207.92 01:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Editorializing in main article?

I was tempted to go roaring in and edit out the comments myself, but perhaps it's better for discussion. Is there any evidence that "Kissing Willie" is in fact generally reviled by Tull fans for its leering lyrics? (Keep in mind that band expert David Rees, in the 20th anniversary box set booklet, notes that there has always been a tension between the Anderson's most intellectual lyrics and his frequent descents to the bottom of the gutter). Is it objectively true that "Rock Island" is merely a pale clone of "Crest"? I'm of the opinion that a good editor would have removed or moderated these comments.

TR user: truddick 14:50, 9 August 2006 EDT

I don't know about "generally reviled" but I rather like it, and I have been a solid Tull fan since the release of Songs From The Wood when I was... about 12? :) My, the years slide by. Maybe I am getting Too Old To Rock & Roll?

--Bill W. Smith, Jr. 21:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of Members and Instruments

Seems to me like the list of band members is sadly short on credits for instruments. OK. perhaps we don't need to list every little balalaika and claghorn, but Ian has always done extensive work on acoustic guitar, in early albums on keys, and frequently on harmonica and high saxophones. Not crediting Jobson for his violin is a hideous oversight IMO. Martin Barre played second flute on several recordings and sometimes in concert. Evan and Giddings have consistently doubled on accordion. And whereinthehell are Ian, Martin and and Pegg's mandolins? Indeed, one of the over-arching features of Tull has been their multi-instrumental skills, and if I don't see stringent objections here I'm planning to edit the article to reflect as much.

TR user: truddick 21:48, 21 August 2006 EDT

Is it just me or does the "Band Membership History" box totally screw up the formatting of this page? Your body text is squashed over all the way to the left, the membership is in the middle, and for the most part you have this blank section on the right. Thoughts? TEMcGee 20:05, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Led Zep and "Jethro Dull"

There have been a number of stories through the years of an antipathy between Tull and Led Zeppelin, with Robert Plant calling the band "Jethro Dull"; Ian Anderson telling Plant how awful Led Zeppelin's lyrics were without realising who Plant was; Zep forcing Tull to play a set after theirs, and so on. If any of this can be verified, it would be interesting to see in the article. I'm not a Jethro Tull fan (nor, for that matter, a fan of Led Zeppelin), so someone else who knows better should do this, if there's any truth to it.  ProhibitOnions  ^(T) 22:45, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I know for a fact that Anderson called Led Zeppelin "our good friends" in Aqualung Live, although that was right before saying that Led Zeppelin had "got[ten a] sexy little recording studio" while they had been stuck with an old church when they were moving into Basing Street Studios with Island Records. Interesting. 68.145.207.92 01:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rock And Roll Circus

I changed the information about Tony Iommi playing with Tull from 1969 to 1968 because the Rock and Roll Circus was in December 1968. I don't even think he was an official member, Mick Abrahams left in December 1968 and Martin Barre was already playing with them by January 1969. Maybe Iommi was just a friend of the bands' and briefly filled in.--Bappzannigan 16:51, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Glenn Cornick On Aqualung

Does anybody know if Glenn Cornick played on Aqualung the album? On the Aqualung page it says that it was recorded between December 1970 and February 1971. Cornick left the band in December of 1970 I believe, so did they start recording the album with him? Or did they start recording the album within weeks after his departure? Jeffery Hammond is the only person given credit for playing bass on the album, but I know that there are early live version of "My God" from 1970 which Glenn Cornick plays bass (i.e. Nothing Is Easy: Live At The Isle Of Wight Festival and Live At Carnegie Hall). If he does play on a few tracks from Aqualung perhaps that should be noted on the Aqualung page.--Bappzannigan 17:03, 17 November 2006 (UTC)