Talk:INTP

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INTPs tend to develop their S more as they get older. This is similar to how ISTPs N tends to develop more with age.

stub for Myers-Briggs Type Indicator

INTP should have its own article, not just a redirect to myers briggs.

Carl Jung, Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein and just about every famous mathematician were INTPs.

INTPs excel in the world of abstract thought and are excellent at recognizing patterns in what seems to be chaos. The world of computer programming is a haven for INTPs. In fact, the concept of a Wikipedia was probably dreamed up by one. Richard M. Stallman is a classic case of INTP. Insightful, quiet, logical, and rebellious.

Er.. RMS's diehard devotion to his cause makes him seem like maybe an INFJ. Definitely doesn't seem like an INTP.

INTPs tend to develop their S more as they get older. This is similar to how ISTPs N tends to develop more with age.

INTPs, always open to new and perhaps even crazy ideas (see Dr. Emmett Brown in Back to the Future), push the limitations of scientific thought and architecture. The frontiers of science are almost always discovered by INTPs. In this way, they are very similar to ISTPs who push the boundaries of the physical world.

Whew, this is begging for revision..... LOL

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Stuff moved from the article:

INTPs are scientists. Practically every great scientist is an INTP. e.g. Newton, Einstein, Galileo. The definition of an INTP is a logical thinking, introverted visionary that bucks the trend. (I know, crudely put for wikipedia but what the hell, someone else can nuke this or fix it up. In fact by including this sentence will 100% guarantee that it will happen)

INTPs tend to have a special relationship with ISTPs. The Wright brothers were an ISTP/INTP combo. One cooked up the idea that a plane could fly and the other actually did it. Also, the Warchawski brothers that directed the Matrix are a modern day example of an INTP/ISTP combo. The abstract idea of going into the Matrix was probably the INTP idea and all the Kung Fu was totally ISTP.

I can't find much here that goes beyond the information in Myers-Briggs Type Indicator. Perhaps a redirect would be enough. Kosebamse 06:13, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I mentioned this on the MBTI talk page and called for consistency in the way we treat the different types. Some types have their own articles, others had redirects. There really needs to be a consensus right across the board. Jammycakes 22:02, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some suggestions towards improving the INTP definition that can be applied in part to all 16 types.

I am unfamiliar with that which goes into appropriately editing Wikipedia articles. So rather than edit the article, I thought posting to the discussion area would be better. Particularly given that some of what I have to say is opinion and not necessarily fact. And for that which I believe to be fact, I would prefer there be a concensus.

Concerning the 16 types, there are indeed multiple schools of thought. How they do (or do not) interrelate I felt could use greater clarification. The more popularized versions began with the work of Carl Jung. Upon Isabel Briggs Myers reading Jung's writings on the subject, the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) was born. Upon learning of the MBTI, David Keirsey Sr. developed his "Temperament" theory which disregards the MBTI's Jung inherited notion of extraverted/introverted functional hierarchies (Ne as notation for extraverted intuition for example). Keirsey instead favored grouping preference patterns and forming a hierarchy from that (SP, SJ, NF, NT, and the 4 sub-types of each). Also, Keirsey's book refers to several other variants which supposedly pre-date Jung's work. [Opinion: Both approaches have merit yet paradoxically clash in the structuring of the functions. I think Keirsey's division of SP, SJ, NF, NT is less chaotic than the MBTI approach which groups by dominant e/i functions which for example would place ESFJ and ENFJ together because they share the dominant function of Extraverted Feeling (Fe). Though many may argue this point, the models of Jung, MBTI, and Keirsey are more similar than dissimilar and are variants on the same school of thought. More specifically on Keirsey, I personally avoid using his labels in the interest of clarity. His labels are explicitly defined in his book and make sense with definitions in hand. But his labels employ common words each already with strong and well established implied meanings. Subsequently, most people become confused by the labels applying the conventional implied meanings. I would recommend that if the labels are to be used that their meanings as defined by Keirsey be included. Frankly, each of the Jung/MBTI/Temperament variants of the 16 types really deserve their own independant dedicated pages.]

Socionics differs greatly from the Jung/MBTI/Temperament school of thought. The functional notations are assigned different values and so a Sociology INTP is really a Jung/MBTI/Temperament INTJ. [Opinion: I am not fond of Socionics and strongly feel its credibility must be questioned. Its use of the same notation assigned different values creates confusion among many (including Wikipedia). The most notable injury to its credibility, Socionics asserts that each of its 16 types exhibit very particular physical characteristics whose descriptions border on the absurd and even insulting <www.socionics.com/prof/intp.htm>. And a more minor red flag to the credibility of Socionics; the What is Socionics? page <www.socionics.com/main/intro.htm> includes an image of Jung holding a book <www.socionics.com/main/common/graph/jung.jpg> that has clearly been Photoshopped to say "Socionics" on the cover. (Here is the original) I suggest that if Socionics is to be included at all on Jung/MBTI/Temperament pages that it be as not much more than a footnote which identifies it as differing enough to cause confusion to any person not inclined to taking a deeper look.]

Lastly, you may want to include a deep link to the "Long Description" of the INTP written by Paul James. Not only is it the best description of the INTP available, it is probably the single best type description among any of the 16 types.

I hope this will be of use to Wikipedia editors. Keep up the good work. :)

-Michael (And yes, I am an (Jung/MBTI/Keirsey) intp.) :)

The functional notations are assigned different values and so a Sociology INTP is really a Jung/MBTI/Temperament INTJ Thats not true. Function are interpreted diffent in MBTI/Keirsey and Socionics, so you can´t just swap the types. --Gronau 14:04, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Function are interpreted diffent in MBTI/Keirsey and Socionics, so you can´t just swap the types. You may not realize it, but you are confirming my assertion. I am not switching the types. The types are defined by their descriptions and by their functions. They are not defined by their labels. I am pointing out that the labeling/notation system differs between Jung/MBTI/Keirsey and Socionics. You simply cannot say that an INTP as labeled for Jung/MBTI/Keirsey is akin to a Socionics INTP. That is what would be an untrue assertion. If you are profiling an INTP, you must entirely separate between the Jung/MBTI/Keirsey systems and the system used by Socionics. Wikipedia already supports my assertion. "A socionics ENTp could well be an MBTI ENTJ and vice versa, although this controversy is more regular in introverted types." --Michael 09:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree thoroughly. The whole fields of MBTI, Keirsey, and Socionics need to be completely reconstructed on Wikipedia. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 01:03, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the above comment I had not read entirely. I do not agree with the initial user's comment that Socionics is not as viable as MBTI/Keirsey, and I do not agree that Socionics is not aligned with Jung as is MBTI/Keirsey, as the first user seems to indicate. Nonetheless, this matter, like all others with these personality theories, must be treated in a NPOV manner. What I do agree with is the idea that these theories cannot be construed as identical.

I agree with the NPOV. You'll note that I was careful to devide my personal opinions away from my NPOV observations.

and I do not agree that Socionics is not aligned with Jung as is MBTI/Keirsey Again I'll emphysize that I am not making any suggestion that the theory is malaligned, I am saying that the notations are malaligned which again I point out is already supported by Wikipedia (and the sources Wikipedia would have cited in the first place).

Thank you for the acknowledgment to the need for separation. --Michael 14:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Type Descriptions

I just deleted the descriptions on all of these personality types. A lot of them were copyvios from different sources, several of them being from http://www.geocities.com/lifexplore/ , where they may or may not have been copied from other locations. Nonetheless, the three theories of MBTI, Keirsey Temperaments, and Socionics are quite different and require different descriptions of types, functions, relations, and other concepts. Socionics especially differs from the other two. The three theories should all be expanded upon in Wikipedia, but it is impossible to do this while there is a conglomeration of these three theories and they are treated as one and the same. Niffweed17, Destroyer of Chickens 01:02, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

A lot of them were copyvios from different sources I suggest going to the official sources and getting permission. For MBTI, http://www.myersbriggs.org/ is the official site of the Myers & Briggs Foundation, http://www.aptcentral.org/ is the official site of the Association for Psychological Type, and http://www.capt.org/ is the official site of the Center for Applications of Psychological Type. For Keirsey Temperament, http://www.keirsey.com/ is the official site of the Keirsey Temperament Sorter, another credible resource is Linda V. Berens who worked with David Keirsey Sr. Her site is http://www.tri-network.com/ for Interstrength Associates, formerly Temperament Research Institute. I do not have any suggestions for official sources on Socionics. I hope this helps. --Michael 15:42, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Asperger syndrome

I've seen some websites that say there's a possible overlap between Asperger syndrome and INTP. That makes sense to me, but I don't know if it's been proven.

See Talk:Asperger_syndrome/Archive04. --Max 02:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)