Talk:INRI

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I have created a redirect for "Titulus" to this page - that being the proper name of the INRI plaque. Ideally the two should be separated out, with one article covering the object and subsequent history/pseudohistory, and the other covering the text itself.

I've changed "double crucifixion" to "crucifixion", as [1] I can't imagine what "double" crucifixion is, except for an octopus, and [2] I find but one web page which seems to refer to it [1]. I've also made it clearer exactly who it is that considers Pontius Pilate a saint, and I suspect the article would be improved if someone could add exactly what sources maintain he was converted to Christianity and crucified. - Nunh-huh 06:23, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Iustum Necar Reges Impius error 2 Semi-relevant quote 3 Extrapolation on Nazerene / Nasorean 4 Titulus - Need definition 5 "The King of the World" 6 Other interpretations? 7 Hebrew 8 Reason For Crucifixion

[edit] Iustum Necar Reges Impius error

This is incorrect Latin -- properly should be "Iustum necarE reges impiOs"... AnonMoos 03:33, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-relevant quote

The following quote from Cryptonomicon has to do with the subject of this page. I think it's hilarious.

"Goto Dengo lies on a cot of woven rushes for six weeks, under a white cone of mosquito netting that stirs in the breezes from the windows. When there is a typhoon, the nurses clasp mother-of-pearl shutters over the windows, but mostly they are left open day and night. Outside the window, an immense stairway has been hand-carved up the side of a green mountain. When the sun shines, the new rice on those terraces fluoresces; green light boils into the room like flames. He can see small gnarled people in colorful clothes transplanting rice seedlings and tinkering with the irrigation system. The wall of his room is plain, cream-colored plaster spanned with forking deltas of cracks, like the blood vessels on the surface of an eyeball. It is decorated only with a crucifix carved out of napa wood in maniacal detail. Jesus's eyes are smooth orbs without pupil or iris, as in Roman statues. He hangs askew on the crucifix, arms stretched out, the ligaments probably pulled loose from their moorings now, the crooked legs, broken by the butt of a Roman spear, unable to support the body. A pitted, rusty iron nail transfixes each palm, and a third suffices for both feet. Goto Dengo notices after a while that the sculptor has arranged the three nails in a perfect equilateral triangle. He and Jesus spend many hours and days staring at each other through the white veil that hangs around the bed; when it shifts in the mountain breezes, Jesus seems to writhe. An open scroll is fixed to the top of the crucifix; it says I.N.R.I. Goto Dengo spends a long time trying to fathom this. I Need Rapid something? Initiate Nail Removal Immediately?"

Dbenbenn 21:14, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This paragraph is utter nonsense:

The inscription in Hebrew was probably Ye'shuah Ha'Nazarei Wemelech Ha'Yehudim, YHWH, the Holy Name of God. This made the Jews even more furious, as the inscription confirms Jesus' Godness, just what he was crucified for.

Where did you get this information?

Ye'shuah Ha'Nazarei Wemelech Ha'Yehudim would of course be abreviated YNWY just as Jesus the Christ is abreviated JC not JT. The notion that the Jews killed Jesus because he claimed to be God is of course the root to antisemitism. See Crossan, "Who Killed Jesus?" for details.

I'm removing the paragragh.

I took the liberty of re-removing it for you. The restorer of the statement gave a source that eventually retracted its conclusions.

Why would the inscription be in Hebrew?? Latin was the language of the Roman Empire, Greek was the main language used in the administration of the Roman East, and Aramaic was the local lingua franca. AnonMoos 03:33, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

For one thing, the Gospel says it was Hebrew. (Luke 23:38, John 19:19-20) Of course they're closely related languages and written with the same alphabet AFAIK, so it's an easy mistake to make for an observer who knew what Hebrew looked like but could not actually read it so as to tell the difference. One might guess, however, that Pilate probably didn't write it himself, since one has no reason to expect that he could write either Hebrew or Aramaic. It's therefore possible he wrote the Greek and Latin and handed it off to a native official to write the local vernacular, but the native chose the more formal local written language instead. TCC (talk) (contribs) 05:10, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

The list of languages was probably not in the original of Luke 23:38, and "Hebrew" (Hebraisti) often meant Aramaic at the time (as in Josephus). AnonMoos 06:09, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Extrapolation on Nazerene / Nasorean

I have added two additional paragraphs of information, based on the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Qumranian Scrolls respectively, the Qumran Scroll's being the writings of the actual Nasorean sect themselves documenting their (previously) verbal history that was then lost for so many years.

It's a highly debated and inflammable topic mainly between the schools of thought that, "There is truth in the bible." and "The bible is the truth." .. so take it as you will, whether you believe in 800 year old humans, or 80 year olds and a typo, the choice is yours.  :)

Jachin 03:52, 23 May 2005 (AEST)

Sources please? Jayjg ^(talk)

22:48, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Dead Sea Scrolls and the Qumranian Scrolls of the Nasoreans? Hello?

Yes, hello. Could you please quote the sources you are referring to, including the ones which suggest that the Qumran community were Nasoerans? Jayjg ^(talk) 15:44, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Methinks he was thinking of the Essenes, who were though to be the inhabitants of the Qumran settlement. There was no "Nasorean sect"; the Nazirites (to use the more common spelling) were those who had taken certain vows under the Mosaic law. I don't know of any evidence for the idea that the Essenes were all Nazirites. TCC (talk) (contribs) 05:17, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Frjwoolley says "Rex Iudaeorum" means exactly "King of the Jews"; Iudaeorum -- masculine genitive plural of Iudaeus, a Jew

Then it should be "King of the Judeans". I see no problem with the English construction Judean King, but if you prefer the long form, fine. Jew is an anachronism.

Not really -- The single word Y'hudi (Hebrew) / Ioudaios (Greek) / Judaeus (Latin) was used in ancient times to cover all three of the concepts Judahite (member of the tribe of Judah by genealogical descent), Judaean (resident of the land of Judea), and Jew (follower of the monotheistic religion). AnonMoos 03:33, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Titulus - Need definition

Until INRI & Titulus get seperated out, there's a need to define that a titulus is. If I recall correctly, it was Roman tradition to post the crime above the person they executed. The reading of the charge above Jesus is signifigant, in that it is both Pilot mocking the Jewish leaders, and is the only change Pilot was asked to rule on. (I don't have a ready source for this, otherwise I'd make a proper edit) -15:10, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Why would it be Pilate mocking Jewish leaders? AnonMoos 03:33, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

At a guess, because they annoyed him by putting him in the position he found himself in. The Jewish leadership, at any rate, wanted the inscription changed, so presumably they found it objectionable or embarrassing. But that, of course, is just one reasonable interpretation among several, and I see no reason to favor any of them by a mentioning in the article. TCC (talk) (contribs) 04:58, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "The King of the World"

Perhaps some Orthodox crucifixes do say this, but even more say "The King of Glory". Unfortunately I don't know how to put this in Greek so I can't fix it myself. TCC (talk) (contribs) 22:45, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other interpretations?

I found this on a messageboard. Can anyone corroborate?

Christian Interpretation INRI is a Latin acronym for Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum (English: "Jesus of Nazareth [literally 'Jesus the Nazarene'], King of the Jews [or 'Judaeans']".)

Masonic Interpretation Igne Natura Renovatur Integra meaning "Through fire, Nature is reborn whole" or "By fire Nature is renewed whole", symbolizing Humankind's spiritual regeneration by the sacred fire of truth and love.

24.18.35.120 10:55, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

That information was once in this article, but the only source for it was the Catholic Encyclopedia, which is unreliable for Freemasonry. I forget when it was removed, but it was a while ago. TCC (talk) (contribs) 18:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hebrew

Why הנצרת instead of נצרת or הנוצרי ?

Is there any solid evidence for הנצרת ? AnonMoos 14:52, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reason For Crucifixion

I, in no way, want to start a debate on the reasons for jesus' crucifixion, I'm just wondering why it needs to be in this article. This article should define INRI and say why it's written on crosses with maybe a little history. Going into the details of the crucifixion that have nothing to do with the writing of INRI should be left elsewhere. Djibouti 03:12, 25 October 2006 (UTC)