Talk:Ceroc

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This article should be less biased. It contains phrases like "the fantastic thing about Ceroc...". It reads like an advert from the company.

Agreed. Product of commerce or fandom, no doubt. I removed this:

There is still an obvious opposition to non-qualified people trying to circulate dance moves where their complexity could be dangerous (if not professionally taught). One of the fantastic things about Ceroc Enterprises as an organisation is the uniformity of the safety standards set solidly in the minds of its instructors, and moves that have not been risk-assessed and properly documented and taught in a safe manner simply are not acceptable.

I'm unclear what this means. I've seen classes taught by Ceroc franchises described as unsafe, so this is not NPOV. I'm thinking it's trying to make some point about Ceroc Ltd being good and holy and its competitors being dangerous cowboys, but it's not entirely clear what's being said. So, removing. I also removed this:

There is also a large unofficial following at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, California.

If it's unofficial, it can't be Ceroc, due to the nature of trademarks and such. It'd have to be Modern Jive. Finally, I trimmed the list of franchises. Ceroc.com should remain, as the homepage of Ceroc Enterprises. I've also kept the C&MJ link, because I believe that is technically a seperate company, rather than merely a franchise. The rest I've removed. Here they are:

• Le Bop Melbourne (Australia)
• Le Bop New Zealand
• Le Step Brisbane (Australia)
• Ceroc in West Yorkshire, England
• The Ceroc Scotland web site
• Caltech Ballroom Dance Club (unofficial/modern jive)
• Club Jive Mamboroc Dance Company (Australia)

Finally, I re-added this titbit of info:

Ceroc took steps to avoid the circulation of secondary material (such as dancer produced lists of moves or move sequence).

Rumour has it that these steps included the use of NDA-type warning on the membership agreement. Can't be 100% sure that's true.

Will the person who keeps vandalising this article please desist.

The relation between "Ceroc" and "Modern Jive" is clearly explained in the 5th paragraph, and is an accepted fact.

If proof can be provided that the term "Modern Jive" was used before "Ceroc", then the is a case to change the entry. However, no-one has claimed this to be the case, let alone been able to prove it. Therefore edit's that claim that Ceroc is not a dance form are political opinion and not helpful.

Further incidents of editing will be reported as Vandalism.

[edit] Contributions to Ceroc

The above unsigned comments are unsigned and traceable only to an IP address. If you are serious about having your voice heard and participating in Wikipedia I strongly urge to to create yourself an account. If you have a personal stake in this (or are associated with a franchice or Trademark holder), identifying yourself would also help.

Please don't remove the content of talk pages.

When they say "is an accepted fact" I would like to see an independent reference of that.

Somewhere in all this revision the list of internation Ceroc groups has also vanished.

I would welcome a report of Vandalism. I've been a Ceroc dancer in several countries and would like to see this improved. Stuartyeates 14:40, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Response

I would put the onus back to you and ask that you give any diffinitive proof that the term "Modern Jive" was in use in the way you claim before 1980 (i.e. when term "Ceroc" was first coined - and of which there is absolute proof in many printed articles in the media). Indeed, any evidence to prove that the term "Modern Jive" existed before 1990 (when Robert Austin coined the phrase) would also be of interest.

[edit] Lookups in the OED

I've just looked up in the online OED and neither Ceroc nor Modern Jive is listed. Jive, of course, goes back to the 1920s.

--Stuartyeates 15:33, 13 September 2006 (UTC)