User:Blue sea

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It is suspected that this user might be a sock puppet or impersonator of Steven Banks. Please refer to User_talk:Blue_sea for evidence. See block log.

Contents 1 Here I Am 2 Greeks are idiots 3 Idiots are trying to write their own version of events as history thanks to Wikipedia 4 Istanbul Pogrom TO BE RE-WRITTEN

[edit] Here I Am

These people are fools. I wear the things they write with a badge of pride.

For too long Greeks have been infiltrating Wikipedia amongs its editors and admin dominions so that it can affect, alter change and influence Turkish related pages to promote and further their own agenda.

Check the dispute wars.

I am going to list them all here.

I am the Greeks and their affliates worst nightmare.

I am the voice of the dissenter.

I have a VERY foul mouth.

Raise your hands.

[edit] Greeks are idiots

The Istanbul Pogrom is lies dressed with the truth. And all the tinkerings you have all been doing on Ottoman pages and the rest. FACE UP TO THAT. You should all be held accountable. Beware Greeks bearing articles. 62.177.208.126 00:41, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

What about the Pontian Greek Genocide by the Turks or the Armenian Genocide commited by yours truly as well (Turks). They don't count though? Huh? Why doesn't Turkey recognise them? --Latinus (talk (el:)) 00:45, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Nah! Talking about the "who did what to whom" with an anonymous IP does not seem fitting. In the other hand the IP fails to provide any evidence of why the Istanbul Porgom article is lies, or what "tinkerings" "we" (the Cabal) have been doing on Ottoman pages... Also, it is indeed hard not to understand the "be held accountable" part as a personal attack, a legal threat, or even a personal threat... Beware of Trolls bearing IP adresses... --Michalis Famelis 01:05, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

It's easy to talk when people get BLOCKED isn't it? So it seems as though you hve won. WELL THIS VOICE WILL NOT BE SILENCED> LATINUs has shown his true face - tit for tat is it? So you can compare innocent people like Turks in Macedonia being forced to have their religion and names changed and then killed simply because they were Turkish and uprisings that were however barbarically (see the age of Empires and how they handled uprisings) handled by the Ottoman Empire. How an Empire with no modern notion of nationlism can be accused of killing people because of them coming from acertian race is absurd. They were regional halts in uprisings - what happened to Turks happened because of their race. The orthodox Church and Greeks have an internal hatred of Catholics and Jews also - and Greece is very prohbitive of the practise of any religion part from its own Orthodxy very easily and has been taken to teh ECHR on this point many times - see freedom of religion. This is the basis of your hatred and genocide of the Turks. See the difference latinus? 200.222.68.38 01:22, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

No, I don't. In fact, I am Catholic (hence my username) and I don't find Greece prohibitive towards the practice of my religion. You are babbling again. If this is about the Istanbul Pogrom (against the poor Greeks), then how do you explain its high Google search results? --Latinus (talk (el:)) 01:27, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I am afraid I am not. It is well docmented even in Cyprus where the Catholics destroyed Orthodox churches - you are the one babbling and it doesnt change a thing. You can lie just to porve a point - make sno difference you GREEK. 200.222.68.39 01:30, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if it is easy to talk when people get blocked, but I do know that trollish behavior easily gets people blocked... -- Michalis Famelis 01:30, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Read the report of Greece for 2002 on Religious Freedom [1]

• 1999 ECHR Greece lost [2]
• Amnesty report on ANOTHER case of Greek prohibition of freedom of religion[3] 200.222.68.38 01:42, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Now, this is something you could go ahead and contribute to the relative article. If you think that this is not told on Wikipedia, go on and add it. But bear in mind WP:AGF, WP:NPA, because if you do not abide to official policies of Wikipedia, you end up blocked. And please please please read WP:TINC!!!! --Michalis Famelis 01:44, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

2002, that;s Ancient History. Now it's 2006. Things have changed a lot. --Latinus (talk (el:)) 01:44, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah yeah not AT ALL and I am complining more to PROVE YOU WRONG LATINUS AND YOUR LIES - and if Michalis YOU ARE SUCH AN ENLIGTENED GREEK WHY HAVENT YOU DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT? 200.222.68.39 01:47, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

OK when you find a conviction dating to 2006, let me know ;-) The state of Human Rights is much worse in Turkey than in Greece. --Latinus (talk (el:)) 01:55, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

The argument that Turkey is worse so that proves what - you are right? You can't compare Turkey and Greece? greece has been cushioned by the EU for how many years and it is still abusing human rights. It has also been protected by various European countries, its economy helped along - Europe has been dragging Greece by its tail. You're last words just proves what I am saying - thanks.

Greece in 2004: In a news-analysis entitled "Red Card from Amnesty International to Greece" published in Ta Nea newspaper in 26 May 2005 and written by Nikoleta Mutusi, it is said that:

"According to the report of Amnesty International in 2004, the real sufferings are waited for immigrants and asylum-seekers in Greece, which has rejected to take refuge for and deported foreign nationals who came even from warn-torn regions, violating all laws concerning human rights.

In the report, Amnesty International suspected that some security measures constitute human rights violations during the 2004 Olympic Games and mentioned about forced evictions of Roma families from sites linked to the Olympics.

It is not first time that Amnesty International accused Greece for this kind of human rights. The issues about hundreds of children, the majority from Albania, who had gone missing between 1998 and 2002 from the state-run children home in Athens and who sold trinkets or beg in traffic, are such kind of human rights violations. Amnesty International has repeatedly said in its reports that little or no effort was made by the Greek authorities to find the children for that time.

And for 2006 - it is still only Feb - give Greece a chance. 200.222.68.39 02:03, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

"Enlightened"? I'm flattered once again... But I'm not enlightened. I'm a leftist. And I can see oppression weather it is in Greece, in Turkey or East Timor. And yes, those human rights violations mentioned by the Amnesty International most certainly are true. And I do something about it, along with others, not on Wikipedia, but in the real world, where it matters. And as a leftist I really don't like fascism and chauvinism, be it in Greece or Turkey. And the Istanbul Pogrom was a fascist ochlocratic act, that's why it matters to me. And another thing that bothers me even more is that today in Turkey my comrades are jailed, beaten, tortured, persecuted, watched by the MIT, like my Greek comrades suffered until 1975... What do you say about that? --Michalis Famelis 02:13, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

When I called you enlightened I was being ironic. Secondly I say to you, you don't care for the TRUTH. You see I care for the truth - and that Istanbul Pogrom article is not the truth - it is written like much of Greek history is - biased and POV. And to the accusations you made - prove it. Get Amnesty to come and review it. For every "friend" you have - I have Greek friends that left for Athens were ridiculed for their accent and Turkish ways and stuck in limbo and believed to be to be traitors followed by the GREEK secret service. It works both ways. You don't go for the truth...you yourself say that the plight of NON-GREEK immgrants do not interest you. Says it all really. 200.222.68.39 02:19, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Idiots are trying to write their own version of events as history thanks to Wikipedia

Damac says:

I did not respond to Latinus' request to have the articles on the massacres of Turks in Greece deleted because I believe and know that massacres took place. In fact, I have been planning to write about these incidents. --Damac 11:09, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Then surely this proves the agenda of Latinus and that there are ADMINISTRATORS actually defending filth like him. Now people should realise why I have lost faith in Wikipedia - people who dress up lies that sound like truth and walk the line and do things in the rules cam just about write what they want - and once on Wikipedia they are creating their own history for ulterior motives. My second posting for listing these users was initially because of Latinus' request to have these articles speedily deleted. Blue sea 23:48, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

My statement proves nothing of the sort - in fact, it's pretty difficult for me as a native speaker of English to work out what the above paragraph is all about.

Wikipedia has in fact lost faith in you. You have contributed nothing of value to it. There is nothing stopping you writing about the massacre of Turks, Muslims and Jews in Tripoli and elsewhere in 1821. You have attempted to raise these events but limited this to copypasting from external websites - poor attempts that does your argument and position no justice. Your The Chios Massacre job is obviously an embarrassment to you.

I'm neither Greek nor Orthodox - in fact, I was baptised into one of those religions for which you claim Orthdoxy has an inbuilt hate. I have no ulterior motive on Wikipedia; I simply write about what I want to write about. If you don't like the subjects I've chosen up to now, that's your problem.

I am going to deal with some of the issues you profess to be interested in. I'm certainly not going to wait for you do it.

A word of warning: if you cannot discuss matters in a polite and civil language, please refrain from sullying my talk page with your abuse. I've many Turkish friends and have lived with Turkish people in the past and none have even demonstrated a fraction of your rudeness. İyi geceler! --Damac 00:22, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I'll keep my English plain and simple so that you can understand it this time Damac.

1. You keep saying how you have Turkish friends and keep quoting little Turkish phrases at me - and it reminds me of that saying "I am not racist I have may black friends."

2. Secondly I am not embarrassed by anything. I actually first wanted that list to encompass all the so called genocides to show that it wasn't some Empire going to different regions of its lands and killing races for the fun of it it was quelling uprisings at a time when people were wanting their independence - because I believe their is a difference between putting down uprisings as genocide and labelling (as you did) a event in the 1950's as a pogrom which obviously tries to hark back to the Jewish pogroms in Eastern Europe and Russia. The context that happened in was a time when that government - fascist or no - was the first governement of Turkey to be actually democratically voted in. You use a language and events which are disputed, and yet you say it is NPOV. I disagree. Doesn't matter how many times you say "hello" or "good evening" to me in Turkish. I had more problem with the word pogrom and with some of the supposed events that took place.

3. That went in by accident and the minute I realisd this I re-directed it to the Chios article.

3. Yes I am foul mouthed and angry - because I've had enough. So you are Catholic - that's fine - and I do not profess anything - the history around me shows how thanks to the Catholic religion Orthodxy almost went extinct and most Greeks see the Pontif as the devil himself - Greeks told me this as hey guess what I have many Greek friends, too - even if I do call the ones in here idiots.

4. And yes I believe you should contribute to those articles to make up for what you did with the istanbul article. Unkowningly you have done a great mis-service there. Blue sea 05:27, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

1. I know what I am and what I'm not and I certainly don't have to prove it to the likes of you.

2. The 1955 Pogrom was not an act of genocide and I never said that. I suggest you look up the meaning of the word pogrom in any reputable English dictionary, Wikipedia or Wictionary and you will read that a pogrom is a campaign of violence orchestrated by a government against a minority. That is what happened in 1955. It was not an uprising - these are planned by groups against a government - nor was it a riot, which is a spontaneous outburst of violence against authority. To call what happened in Istanbul in 1955 the "September Uprising" or the "September Events" is so completely miss the significance altogether.

I'd also like to remind you that the head of the same democratically elected government was executed on the orders of a Turkish court.

3. Utter BS. A look at the editing history shows that your claim "That went in by accident and the minute I realisd this I re-directed it to the Chios article" is a lie:

04:07, 28 January 2006 82.145.231.45

09:16, 26 January 2006 Sysin (rv; vandalism)

05:00, 26 January 2006 82.145.231.57

18:08, 25 January 2006 Sysin (Setting the record straight.)

08:55, 25 January 2006 Blue sea

08:05, 25 January 2006 Steven Banks

You started the Chios Massacre article (claiming Turks were the victims) on 25 January. You then edited it using your own name. User:Sysin then corrected the article and you reverted it the following day. After Sysin re-corrected the article, three days later you blanked it and moved it to Chios. It has since been re-established as an article and now explains the truth about the incident. It's so ironic, but thanks to you there now is another article out there describing a massacre of Greeks in Chios by the Ottoman military. Are you now part of this Greek anti-Turkish cabal?

4. I was baptised a Catholic, but like you, profess no faith.

5. I will contribute articles on the massacres of Turks and Muslims in Greece during the War of Independence out of service to Wikipedia and not to you. I owe you nothing. I will name the articles according to the information I find on these incidents - I'm certainly not going to make my mind up in advance and will research my articles throughly.--Damac 08:03, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Istanbul Pogrom TO BE RE-WRITTEN

I am afraid the user Damac is a lier as he is Greek and does have a Greek POV. This article is full of lies and propaganda and the usage of the word pogrom is used to incite racial hatred. peopel should not use Wikipedia for there own racial sensitivities. Wikipedia is not here for such hooliganism. Though as more Greeks inflitrate the international satge - such as tennis - even hooliganism will become prevalent there. I will do my own objective research on this issue and changes will be made. I take serious issue with many disputed events that are being recorded here as historical FACT. Or apart from "not being" a Greek is Damac a learned historian, too?

I will also bring forth reasons for the riots, which are not made clear, such as retaliations for the Greek governmental perscution of Thrace Turks, where they cannot praticse their religion, women kidnapped, raped and forced to change their names and religion [1].

Greece has been taken many time to the European court of human rights on this matter. I will prepare an article on these issues. It is time that the truth really was written.

I am sick to death when people hijack Wikipedia for their own bigotry and prejudices.

Enough is enough. 82.145.231.79 03:08, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Merhaba, I presume you are also User:82.145.231.79.

First of all, I'm not Greek, but am from Ireland. Secondly, I am an historian and hold a Ph.D. in history. What are your qualifications?

There is nothing in that article that has not appeared in the Turkish press and there are a number of Turkish articles listed in the sources section.

For your information, I am researching the history of Ottoman mosques in Greece and think it is a disgrace how these buildings have been neglected by the Greek authorities.

Feel free to make any changes to the article in question as you see fit. I will review each one for its merits.

Best, --Damac 09:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC)