Talk:Ashton-in-Makerfield
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St.Helens was home to two cotton mills in the 1800's. Ashton in Makerfield had one, so it was not the westerly extremity after all!
- Repy: (1) QUESTIONS: The town or the district of Ashton? When you say the 1800s do you mean the ist decade of the 19th century or the whole century? (This is important because the heyday of the Lancs cotton industry was later than 1800 - 1810). (2) CONTEXT: Even if this comment were correct for the district of Ashton throughout the 19th century, it doesn't alter the fact that two mills in a large district like St Helens is not very significant - coal and glass still completely dominated. (Indeed, textile mills may have existed in isolation even further west). Whereas for a much smaller place like Ashton one mill could be a major employer and contributor to the local economy. The general point about the western extremity of a concentrated, economically important cotton industry surely remains?
Yozzer66 17:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
- There were two cotton mills in St.Helens in the 1820's, therefore the statement about Ashton having the most westerly cotton mill is wrong. St.Helens wasn't a large district in the 1820's, however, if it was, it would not alter the true fact that there were two cotton mills there and that they were further west than Ashton. You can't beat the truth, no matter how you tart it up!
Put something on the article for Bryn, that's what it's there for.
The article on 'Park Lane Unitarian Chapel', Bryn, has been transferred from Ashton in Makerfield article to it's rightful 'Bryn' article.
REPY: Until recent times Bryn was part of the district of Ashton-in-Makerfield. Nearly all the other 19th century chapels deleted form the article are in present-day Ashton. To omit, or brush over, the rich history of native Christian non-conformity from an article on Ashton would be ridiculous. Similarly, the history of coal mining in the area needs a substantial entry. Yozzer66 14:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
- Religious bigotry has no place in the encyclopedia. Personal opinions will be removed.
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- REPLY: Where is the bigotry? It is a statement of fact that, historically, Christian Non-conformists found religious relics to be an anathema. Attempts at air brushing the rich non-conformist history of the Ashton area from history could be viewed as either ignorance, lay Catholic sectarianism or traditional Anglo-Catholic arrogance. Which is it? And why hide behind anonymity? Sign your contributions!
Yozzer66 11:51, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
- Is a Cross not a relic?
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- What has that got to do with anything? Describing, and seeking to explain, the religious differences of our ancestors is not the same as taking sides in the here and now. My contribution was not polemic but history.
Yozzer66 22:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
There has never been a 'St.Helens Coalfield'. Any mining near to St.Helens was taken from the Lancashire Coalfield.
- REPLY: In point of fact, the Lancashire coalfield was sub-divided, as indeed the county of Lancashire was.
Yozzer66 20:41, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
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- Please provide 'official', not local, proof of a St.Helens Coalfield, ie: Official documentation rather than writings by local historians. I was employed in coal mining, at management level, for over thirty five years and only in later years was there a change in title from St.Helens Area, to North West Area, that is 'area' of the Lancashire Coalfield.
- This is a pedantic point but I will accept your description 'St Helens Area'. Your other point ignores the difference between an administrative label and a geological and geographical description. There has never been only one Lancashire Coalfield geologically and geographically speaking.
Yozzer66 22:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
- Hmmmm. However, Windy Arbour Colliery wasn't an Ashton colliery but was classed as in Winstanley, Lancashire. (source: National Register of Archives, Museum of Science and Industry, Manchester.)
To Whom It May Concern : Those who would like to re-write history by re-introducing the old boundaries of Lancashire are perfectly entiled to their views. However, to place these views (without substantial qualification) in an encyclopedic article on Ashton is inappropriate. Yozzer66 14:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
The Lancashire boundaries were never changed. A change of Governing Authority (local council) does not alter country, town or county boundaries. The Government who altered the 'Administrative' boundaries stated this at the time.
- 'Note that the LGA 1972 did not do anything to the historic Counties of Britain. It only abolished the administrative counties and county boroughs. The Government was (and still is) happy to confirm that the Counties themselves were unaffected...'
"The new county boundaries are solely for the purpose of defining areas of ... local government. They are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of Counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change." Source:(DoE Statement, 1st April 1974). ....... (ABCounties)
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- REPLY: What do you mean? In 1974 new counties called 'metropolitian counties' came into being. You may not have agreed with this superseding of the traditional counties in many of England's major urban conurbations but it did happen. You can't simply wish it away.
Yozzer66 20:41, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
- Have you read the 'Official' Government Statement which explains how Administrative Boundaries can be altered without actually affecting the traditional County Boundaries?
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- Wishful thinking on your part, I think.
Yozzer66 22:36, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
To Whom It May Concern : SENELEY GREEN was in existance in the mid sixteenth century, (actually, long before that). The founding of Ashton in Makerfield Grammar School took place in Seneley Green at that time. It was founded using a capital sum bequeathed by Robert Byrchall, in 1589, and a plot of land granted by Sir Thomas Gerard. There is nothing 'new' about it.
