Talk:Alessandro de' Medici, Duke of Florence
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You claim that Alessandro de' Medici's rule was "harsh, debased and incompetent." More disturbingly, you make the claim that he was lured to his death by Lorenzino who used Alessandro's own "debased" nature to entrap and assassinate him. (Although you don't elaborate: the "debased" nature implied here concerns sex, of course.) But you do not substantiate your claims. What did he do, specifically, that makes him "harsh, debased and incompetent"?
You are merely repeating some unfavorable evaluations. But even encyclopedias need some granular facts, though, of course, the sweeping generalization is vital. Unless, that is, Alessandro's characterization is pre-determined by matters that have nothing to do with historical facts or "objectivity," inasmuch as that is possible.
Alessandro was half black. Perhaps that has something to do with his incompetence and debasement? If so, you just need to come out and say it.
It's ok to say so. You see, lot's of people believe that stupidity and sexual "debasement" correlate very well with blackness. You'd be in plenty of company.
But I may be mistaken about your motives. If I am, my apologies.
Best, M. Haile.
- What on earth are you talking about? There is zero connection between the characterization of him, and his potential racial background. (I say "potential" because, the PBS story notwithstanding, there is still no certainty that he was part African.)
- The characterization of his rule comes from his contemporaries, who described e.g. his fortress (in a complaint to the Pope) as "built with the blood of her unhappy people, as a prison and a slaughterhouse for the unhappy citizens". Yes, maybe that was the result of contemporary politics - but Wikipedia is supposed to reflect existing scholarship, and we're explicitly not supposed to be a place for original research. The characterization of him in this article is from a fairly recent reasonably scholarly work - which is what we aim to provide. Ditto for the description of the plot that killed him.
- Read any book about the Medici, and you'll find people who are described as just as bad (if not worse) than Alessandro. Try Gian Carlo (brother of Ferdinando), or Gian Gsatone (last Medici Grand Duke) and his Ruspanti. Assuming Alessandro's evil and stupid because he was black is just as racist as assuming the others were evil and stupid because they were white.
- And as for your snide insinuation that the author could be a racist, well, it's really offensive and insulting. Get a life. Noel 01:39, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Re: recent edits:
I wouldn't trust that PBS article as a reliable source on Alessandro's origins. The author clearly has a major political/racial axe to grind, but is also such a poor scholar that they make a major howler in the first paragraph, one that anyone who knows anything about the Medici should catch on sight. Not a good recommendation. Mind, I'm not saying Alessandro's mother wasn't the person they cite, but you'd have to look around in current scholarship and check it out. Without a caveat on the link to warn our unwary readers, I oppose linking to that page.
As to whether or not his rule was bad, I haven't done enough detailed research to say one way or the other if the accepted wisdom is unfair or not. (Ditto the comment at the end of the previous paragraph on this topic too.) Noel 01:39, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Perhaps someone will come along and provide additional links, some references to the archival documentation, and gently correct errors of fact. Wetman 03:08, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Cardinal Silvio Passerini
According to my (not as extensive as I would like, alas) sources for Florentine history, he was the Pope's representative in Florence before the Medici were thrown out in 1527. (Both Schevill and Hibbert agree on this.) Passerini died in 1529, according to some web references on him. [1] [2] In addition, when Alessandro returned in 1531, he would have been 19/20 if our date-of-birth is correct (and again, Hibbert confirms his age), so I don't think he would have needed a regent (although my sources don't say so explicitly, I concede).
So I have removed the references to Passerini after the Medici restoration, including from the para about the reputation of Alessandro, since it refers to his reputation as a ruler, during which time Passerini was not there. Noel (talk) 19:35, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- Perhaps User:Jnc would contribute the links to the Wikipedia stub on Cardinal Silvio Passerini. --Wetman 20:57, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
