Talk:Adige

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is part of WikiProject Rivers, a WikiProject to systematically present information on rivers. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page (see Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ for more information)
	This article needs a map.

Adige river doesn't run through Friuli-Venezia Giulia region! It runs just through South Tyrol, Trento province and Venetia region (Veneto)! I've corrected yet.

Contents 1 Adige moved to Etsch-Adige 2 Requested move 3 Attention 4 Consensus reached

[edit] Adige moved to Etsch-Adige

Adige, as an Italian river, should be listed usign the Italian name, and not as "Etsch", which is the German one.

Pietro 13:27, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

I moved the article. Is strange that a river categorized like Category:Rivers of Italy has like major name the german name. --Ilario 08:42, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

It is strange that an italian river categorized like Category:Rivers of Italy has a german name. In any case only a small part of the river runs in the territory where people speaks german. --Ilario 09:17, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

---

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~

• Support --Ilario 09:17, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
• Support AnyFile 10:15, 6 November 2005 (UTC) (Put a redirect from Etsch, if you want. There is no river called Etsch-Adige. It just has two different name in the two different language, Put an explanation in the article.
• Support' -- GhePeU 10:58, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
• Support' Pietro 11:33, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
• Support - we should use the official denominations, and eventually name the alternatives in the article text. Alfio 11:54, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
• Support --F. Cosoleto 13:01, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose Locations that are in Südtirol are named with their German-language names and their Italian ones. See Bozen-Bolzano, Meran-Merano. This is the consensus that has been found for the sake of harmony and equality, therefore the rivers are named in both languages as well. No point in trying to force only the italian names. Gryffindor 16:16, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

  I read en:Danube and not en:Donau-Dunaj-Donava-Duna-Dunav-Дунав-Dunăre :)

Very funny indeed, as you may notice the Danube happens to flow through a lot of states, the Adige through only one. ;-) --Civvi 20:16, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

• Strongly support , very nice but this is not "a location" in the province of Bolzano, this is an italian river and only a part of it flows through the province of Bolzano. It's an article about an italian river on an encyclopedia in english so the name should be in italian or in english, please. This is the official site of the river authority do you see the name Etsch anywhere? You are not going to rename Trenitalia in Zügeitalien-Trenitalia because part of the trains go through the province of Bolzano, are you? "--Civvi 17:00, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
• Support --Nick1915 17:34, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
• Support -- Hellisp 18:10, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
• Support -- Olessi 18:26, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
• Strongly support - Gac 05:58, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
• Support of course in South Tyrol it is called Adige by Italian-speaking people and Etsch by German-speaking people, but I think articles' names should reflect the name things are known as. If the river is known by English-speaking people as Etsch, use that. Double names should be probably used only for places English-speaking people have never heard of. You don't call the Rhône River Rotten-Rhône, even if its upper course happens to be in the German-speaking part of Valais (or Garonne Garona-Garonne). Why should Adige be different? --Cruccone 17:48, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

For anyone in doubt, I recommend you read the article on Prontuario dei nomi locali dell'Alto Adige where double names are used even for geographic locations. Gryffindor 00:20, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

For this reason I proposed to change this denomination because incorrect and not en:Bozen-Bolzano. Also Bozen-Bolzano should be incorrect. I see a similar status in Leuven which is bilingual and it is not named Leuven-Louvain. --Ilario 08:13, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

(conflicted with Ilario) @Gryffindor: if you like we can also start to discuss about the name of locations, the discussion should obvioulsy be based on official documents of today (year 2005) and not on a "historical" document like the cited prontuario ;-) so the official name of the italian city in the year 2005 is Bolzano (Bozen)... --Civvi 08:31, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, but you clearly have no Idea about Bozen. The official name is Bozen and Bolzano. Today. in 2005. Just because you don't like it (or maybe you hate that there are people in italy that don't speak Italian at home but german) you should not state wrong things. South Tyrol has 2(3) Languages. Italians always try to get rid of that fact, some people even lost theyr life because people like you don't recognise that in some places some things are different. Fantasy 容 19:24, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

That's exaclty the tolerant tone I love in a discussion... Ok, leave the german name of towns and cities first if that adds to your well being...later, when you are less emotional just take some minutes to compare the googlehits of "Bolzano Bozen" and "Bozen Bolzano" (even in "german speaking official sites). We are not talking about personal opinions we are just trying to find consensus about how a geographical entity has to be called. --Civvi 21:45, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't think this. I think that italian people knows the status of Alto Adige/Südtirol and I think (and hope) that nobody will starts a poll about the change of Bozen/Bolzano and similar towns. In any case the name Etsch/Adige is very strange, the name Trentino-South Tyrol has complex historical reasons, translate in a way or in another means (indirectly) to accept or not only one point of view. --Ilario 20:37, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I am getting the impression, that many Italian users are voting to change articles about Südtirol to Italian. To me that strikes as chauvinistic nationalism. The German language is equally protected in the Italian constitution, therefore it has been agreed upon (not by me but other users) to use both names, the German and the Italian. This is an extremely sensitive issue and I would loathe to unbalance anything here or to create ill-feelings. The Etsch river starts in Südtirol, floats on in Italy. Gryffindor 23:00, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Apparently it is not possible to make a discussion about the correctness of a name of an article without being accused of being ignorant and having bad/maliciuos/fascist/chauvinist/communist/catholic/whatever intentions against the whole world...so let's check what google says...:

Search selecting "only pages in english language":

• "Etsch river": 241 hits
• "Adige river": 17.100 hits

--Civvi 00:25, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Ah I see, I had no idea this project was called "Googlepedia" :-) And besides, who started the renaming process of articles about Trentino-South Tyrol and Eisack-Isarco...? Gryffindor 11:31, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

As I wrote, «the double name could be justified for Eisack-Isarco, because it flows only through Alto Adige/South Tyrol, but Adige is an Italian river, for the greater part of its course it flows through Italian-speaking Trentino and Veneto and it is universally known by its Italian name». GhePeU 13:20, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Google hits are a tool to measure how widely a certain word is used in English (or in any other language). I think that saying that Adige is by far the most widely used form is NPOV. No one denies that Etsch is a co-official name in South Tyrol, and I will strongly support a redirect from Etsch. I strongly support that articles' names should reflect the way things are known as and not being decided on the basis of political issues. --Cruccone 13:34, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Attention

'Jou are doing what Italian nationals ask: cancelling every evidence off german speaking people in Ialy--MartinS 16:59, 7 November 2005 (UTC) (one of them)

No need to whine. The double name could be justified for Eisack-Isarco, because it flows only through Alto Adige/South Tyrol, but Adige is an Italian river, for the greater part of its course it flows through Italian-speaking Trentino and Veneto and it is universally known by its Italian name. GhePeU 17:32, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

We are trying to let English speaking people find the information in the way they are used to name it: all the information about the history and the rights of the German speaking people living in Italy can be placed in the body of the article. Pietro 19:08, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Don't increase a little problem. I proposed a change of only two denomination (one more evident that another) and not to delete all southtiroler geographic names! --Ilario 20:39, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Olessi 04:00, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Consensus reached

The request for a move to Adige has been up for six days, and it seems consensus has been reached in favor of the move. So I'm moving it. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 17:06, 12 November 2005 (UTC)