User talk:Abu badali

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[edit] Archive

[edit] Good catch

Hi. Good catch in the Cindy Crawford article about the movie poster. I must have been distracted or something. Thanks. Redux 15:08, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair Use images

When I initially joined Wikipedia, about 2 years back, I did upload a handful of images under the Fair Use criteria without fully understanding it. Eventually, most of them got rightfully deleted while a lot others remain. Your dedication to remove images tagged as Fair Use but not meeting the Fair Use criteria is inspiring. I will try remove the remaining Fair Use images in my free time. Keep up the good work! --Incman|वार्ता 19:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Guillotine choke

I forgot about that image, it's from the same series as these images in commons however I will admit I do not know the exact page it is located in in the choking manuals. –– Lid^(Talk) 14:23, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barilko2.jpg

Next time becareful when tagging images with the fair use replacement tag like with Barilko2.jpg who was a hockey player who died in a plane crash 55 years ago and I doubt a free image can't be found, if there is any other images of him. Keep up the good work anyways. Thanks Jaranda ^{wat's sup} 20:05, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Ottl ima 010805.jpg

I hope you realize that this image is a bad faith nomination by another user. Kingjeff 23:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

This might help to explain the situation. He has harassed me with several edits by gaming the system with reverts. Even though he technically didn't break the 3rr rule. But as far as this image is concerned, he followed me to the Bayern Munich Junior Team page where he found the image. He couldn't find anything to ligitimately revert on that page. So he's gaming the system trying to look for a technicallity so this image can be deleted. If this was a ligitimate or honest attempt on this image, then I wouldn't have made any arguement. Kingjeff 23:38, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Possibly offensive language in edit summary

Rein in the hyperbole, please; I am a Wiki administrator, I am quite familiar with policies and guidelines, and the phrase "ridiculous overprotectiveness" does not violate WP:CIVIL or WP:NPA in any way. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 23:31, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

I'm curious as to what you mean by "highly replaceble" for all these images you are tagging. You're using a "fair use criteria" as your reasoning, but I'm not seeing how this is applying to the images you are tagging. I just looked at a couple of them and they seem to come from screencaptures, and not from photographs that that are attempting to be sold, thus requiring a "free version" to be found. Bignole 19:50, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I can only assume when you say "more specific" you mean could I give you an example of an image. The first one I saw was the Rob Van Damme image; I think it was the one where he was holding two belts. I followed the source link back and it was from a set of images from one of the WWE shows. I was curious as to how this was something that needed to be replaced with a "free version," because it appeared to be a screencaptured provided by the WWE itself. Bignole 21:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

That is what I am asking you. Where do you see that it is a "non-free license"? I'm curious if you are taking the time to find "equivalent" images that are "free," or if you are just tagging them because they aren't. Wikipedia wants free images, but sometimes there are not "equivalent" images that can be found or created that are free. I'm curious if you are taking the time to actually find an equivalent image, or if you are merely going through and tagging. I only say this because your contributions are riddled with nothing but tagging, and I hardly see anywhere where you have contacted all of the editors that submitted the works to find out if they have an equivalent. Not everyone goes through and finds every single Wikipedia policy, or even understands it for that matter, and if you do not properly explain what it is that you are telling them to do you cause conflict, as with Mikedk9109. You mentioned there was another version of the Rob Van Damme picture; where is it? I looked on his page but only saw the images you tagged. Bignole 22:43, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I never claimed that you don't upload images, or that you don't like images in any sense. What I said was that it appears you are merely going about tagging any image without actually looking into it. It appears that you expect people to run out and stalk these people till they can get an image of them doing something that actually fits into the article. Has someone created an image for RVD of him and his two belts? The image itself works with the article, because it's quite an accomplishment, and noting that with an image can help a page. Are you saying that people should by ticket after ticket till they get a picture of him with his two belts? I'm not up on the wrestling world, but if he doesn't currently have the belts any longer, and you needed an image of him with the belts, how do you propose creating that image? Bignole 23:30, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

So now you think that articles should be restricted to a single image? As for it violating #8 on the fair use, if him winning two belts in the WWE is significant (I don't really watch wrestling so I can't begin to assume anything about it) then a photo of the event when he wins the second belt would be "significant" as described by fair use rule #8. Bignole 23:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I understand most of your image tags, because they appear to be profile pictures of people, but this "free image" question wouldn't really apply if it was an image of some person in the act of doing something. If the image is attempting to illustrate a significant event (i.e. Like RVD's double belts....if that was significant..again don't follow it) then it cannot be claimed that the same image could be "created", because it is an event that is in the past; unlike a living person that can easily have their picture taken by anyone (hence why I can agree with having RVD's infobox image replaced with that type of image). Bignole 23:44, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

You said "holding a prize" wouldn't be significant...probably not if was just one, even though becoming a Champion is a significant accomplishment in other sports why not Wrestling, so him gaining two belts should be even more of an accomplishment in the wrestling world. An image of him accomplishing that goal is hardly "eye candy". It would be like images of wrestlers performing their "signature moves." It isn't eye candy, it's meant to help illustrate what is being said. I'm not trying to save the RVD image, it is just the first one I saw, thus it has been my example image as we've discussed this. Bignole 23:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

It seems it would be harder to prove that it doesn't pass the FUC#8, as its "significance" can be rather opinionated. One can say "it isn't significant to the text" and someone else could say the opposite. What is "significant" to one might not be to the other; it isn't as clear as a profile picture not being "non-free". Bignole 00:34, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

A good way to judge this is to read the article itself. If the event or belt is mentioned in passing as part of a paragraph, it most certainly is not notable enough. However, an entire paragraph dedicated to explaining the event and why the win was significant to the person's career, or even a whole section (i.e. several paragraphs) on this, would indicate that it is significant. It would likely be reasonable to use an image to depict something significant enough that the discussion spanned several paragraphs. For an event significant to have a single paragraph, it's debateable but I'd lean toward allowing it. Less than a full paragraph consisting of several sentences, it's clearly not significant enough. In any event, we need to limit the number of fair-use images. Some projects set the limit to a maximum of one per article. There's no hard and fast rule on this but admins tend to get antsy when there are more than two or three fair-use images per article, or more than one per page (that is, more than one per PgDn in your browser). --Yamla 02:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

In my understanding, it is possibly reasonable to use a fair-use image depicting when a person won a title as this depicts a specific event. The only debate is whether a free image could exist. However, it is not reasonable to create one in the future as the event only happened once. Here, I believe we should err more toward the permissive end of the spectrum. That said, we could only use a fair-use image attached to a paragraph specifically discussing that event and how important the event was to the person's career. Additionally, a hand-written fair-use rationale would have to explain that this was a one-time event of significance to the person's career. On the other hand, an image of a person just holding a prize would generally not be significant (it would be entirely suitable just to discuss this through text, the image adds nothing meaningful), however, nor would it not be replaceable. The person could again pick up the prize and have a photograph taken. Or the person's agent could release the image under a free license. The key point is that a person winning a prize or a belt or something is a significant event (well, assuming the prize or belt is significant to the person's career). A person holding a prize or belt that they won earlier is not a significant moment in that person's life. --Yamla 02:17, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Smallville images

There are two images on Smallville that are hidden. Please do not put an "abandoned" tag on them. They are hidden until the episodes that they correspond with air. Screencaptures were released early and I felt they shouldn't be viewed till the episode airs, sort of like plot summaries not being written till after the episode airs. And someone just put a "promotional" tag on there, it is just a film screenshot. Bignole 16:12, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

(Leatherface image)You don't have to be difficult all the time with the images, sometimes it's just as easy to contact the person that uploaded it and ask them. Bignole 16:08, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

What do you mean "what are they being used to" for the Smallville images? The title of the image corresponds with the title of the episode. Other than that you'll have to be more specific about what you are asking. Bignole 16:12, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Both are used in the same practice as every other episode image, as an image that is illustrating the episode. There is nothing "special" about them other than the same thing that is "special" about every other episode image on every other television show page. I merely "hid" them until the episode airs, one airs this thursday, and I think the other airs next thursday. I personally felt they shouldn't be shown until we have a plot to go with them. Bignole 16:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

So what exactly are you claiming is wrong with the pictures? They have their sources provided, they aren't "eye candy" because it isn't like they are useless images, they are used to illustrate the episode just like a film uses an image to illustrate itself. You keep saying they are "unfree" images, but you cannot actually acquire personal images of filming taking place. Screenshots do not fall under the "unfree image" of "easily replaceable with a free version" as they are images depicting fictional settings and characters, and kind of restricted access. Bignole 16:35, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

What part of "Screenshot" isn't making it? It has nothing to do with "unfree images;" it's a screenshot. There can be a million different screenshots, each one "replaceable" by the next, but the fact is that they would all come from the same source. Your argument makes no sense. "Ask yourself, can it be easily replaceable"....Yes, Sure...so could the next screenshot. That is why it is a screenshot. When I say "there is nothing special about it" I mean that I do not plan on including any other picture besides the one you tagged for that episode. "Special" as in there isn't something specific (other than it being the image for the episode) that is going to be used for. I.E. We aren't using one image for the episode and another image for something that happens in the episode that was significant and needs to be shown. Another example would be the episode "Sneeze". Now, One could have used an image to illustrate the episode as a whole, and then gone on to use another image of Clark and his "superbreath". This could easily create a problem because there is no need for two images, especially if one could do the job, hence the reason the one used is the one of him using his superbreath, because that was what the episode was about. "Rage" is about Oliver Queen using some type of drug to increase his strength and invulnerablity, hence the screenshot of him using a needle; "Static" is about a Phantom ZOne criminal (Batista) that is looking for Clark, hence the image of Batista. Bignole 16:46, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

You aren't even making sense in your argument. First you say "if it can be replaced then it isn't free", which means you think it should be replaced. THen you go into removing it period. The only reason you are even arguing about this is because the image was hidden from view until the episode aired. That doesn't take away from it's "freeness". You are attempting to apply one policy to everything and you cannot do that. There are other things at work here, like the fact that this is a fictional television show article, and not some living breathing thing whose image can be easily attained/created. Bignole 16:50, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, considering that I'm following Wikipedia's policy on screenshot sourcing, I won't worry about it. Considering that it has been accepted practice to include an image for episodes, I won't worry about it. If you think that episodes should not have an image then I think you should take that up with every other television show episode that has an image, here's a though, why not start with all those Featured Lists of Episodes that have an image for every single episode. I believe there is a Featured List for the Simpson's episodes, and that's something like 17 seasons and counting, that's a lot of images for one page. You are trying to impose a policy for one set of articles that can't always apply to every type of article. These are not images of things that "can be easily obtained in a free manner". They aren't images of "living people or non-fictional objects" that any person with a camera can just walk up and take a photo of. These are images of fictional things that can only be obtained one way. Bignole 23:28, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Joe Paterno Fair Use edit

Abu badali,

I believe that the magazine cover image of the December 1986 Sports Illustrated that you removed from the Joe Paterno article is relevant to the article in question. I also believe that it is allowable Fair Use material under the very rule that you said it was disallowed under.

7. An image of a magazine cover, used only to illustrate the article on the person whose photograph is on the cover. However, if that magazine issue itself is notable enough to be a topic within the article, then fair use may apply.

While there is not an entire subsection of the article devoted to said magazine issue, the issue does hold significance:

"In December of 1986, Paterno was named by Sports Illustrated as their "Sportsman of the Year". He was the first college coach to be so honored."

The December 1986 issue of Sports Illustrated was the first issue in which a college football coach was awarded "Sportsman of the Year". Furthermore:

"It is believed that the use of low-resolution images of magazine covers

to illustrate the publication of the issue of the magazine in question,

with the publication name either visible on the image itself or written in the image description above,

on the English-language Wikipedia, hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation, qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law. ... Note: It is not acceptable to use images with this tag in the article of the person or persons depicted on the cover, unless used directly in connection with the publication of this image."

The image in question seems to comply with these rules. If I have misunderstood something, please do not hesitate to let me know. I will not use the image in question until I can confirm with you that you agree that Fair Use applies. If you will not agree, then I will not use the image; I am not looking for trouble, just clarification. - Godfoster 15:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You need to get a life

The source on this was very obvious. Try adding things to the project, not just wasting other's time.

EuropeNationsByReligion_1097_Shepard's_europe_mediterranean_1097.jpg (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/history_shepherd_1923.html)
--> Specifically: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/europe_mediterranean_1097.jpg

This is really picyune and petty action on your part—and 'Oh-so-transparent' inthat I tramped on your strict anal interpretation on the Fair use Images for deletion yesterday— proud of yourself? Don't be! Try figuring out why we do or care about somethings—it may help you make informed judgements and decisions instead of blindly applying a guideline. Like that soccer player image, this is fine in the USA hosted en.wp where both are in full conformance with US law.
Thing I wonder, is whether your heart is in providing information or in being a rules mechanic. If the latter, try studying law and let the rest of us get on with the project. Sheesh! // FrankB 20:14, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Being ok with US Law is far for enough for an unfree image to be used on Wikipedia. It must be ok with Wikipedia's policy on unfree material: WP:FUC. I don't know exactly which image you're talking about, but "soccer player images" usually fail the very first item of this policy, that says that unfree images can only be used when a free alternative can't be created. --Abu Badali 21:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, try to avoid edit summaries like this.

Best regards, --Abu Badali 21:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Replys and drains on my time

In reply, see this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Admin_Act_seems_questionable. That first paragraph is being interpreted way too broadly. If you truly believe that to be a right and proper interpretation of the implied 'reasonable amount of time' that should be in there, then the inmates are truly taking over the asylum, and wikipedia will definitely soon be seeing the last of me as an editor. I don't have time to bicker and quarrel over legal acts that benefit the project made in good faith. Any other action which diminishes that result by you is intolerable... including being a sea-lawyer or rules mechanic over trivial minor matters—perhaps in particular such acts.
And do keep in mind that guidelines are NOT POLICY. I'm interested in a class product, and so should you be. See my comments on User_talk:Carnildo#Missing_information. Who in the hell has time for this picyune crap? And my edit summary was calculated to call it as I see it so do take a look in the mirror I provided you with that, and think about how your acts here impact other's time. Don't be a time stealer, but someone that adds value. As it is, I traded emails, including one at length with KingJeff on getting GNU or PD images to replace that one so that everyone can be 'happy', if that applies in this juvenile exercise of ill-judgement and ill-will. In the iterim, the article is now going to be missing a photo that is defacto in the public domain for all intents and purposes. Doesn't that strike you a bit wrong that you can maintain an strict rules oriented action based on a rule which never had an existance as a rule, but is one guideline among many—many of which are in conflict? If you care so little for your own time, try feeling guilty about wasting mine. I have far too little free time for this nonsense. // FrankB 21:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

On the way to cross-post this, I rescanned WP:FUC... Someone has really taken things to a ridiculous level with that first sentence or two. I don't and won't ever give a fart whether any other languge's encyclopedia can freely translate ours... which is all that the mission statement (the intro as is were) boils down to in pratical terms. Let those working the other languages take care of themselves. We have enough to do worrying about getting the English version right. Removing content is not right, but self-defeating. // FrankB 21:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Can't figure out where this is filed for comments. Doesn't appear to be ([1]) linked to any image discussion pages, so I figure it needs no further comment.

Please revert your template. I make it a policy to not revert, particularly, in a matter like this wherein I'm a principle editor. I've annoted the record with the above links already. Cheers // FrankB 23:09, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks, Sorry, and heads-up (Images)

- Thanks for the above requested fix up. Why didn't you point out this over all matter was a new policy when I'd said otherwise above. (I gave Jimbo an earful on the tagging for Policy being too similar to the ever present endless verbiage in guidelines as an aside to the WP:AN thread linked above.) So maybe that little good will come out of all that hot air.
- (Sigh) Apparently some apologies are in order--you must have been patrolling a lot of images, not just taking juvenile aim because I spoke in defense of Kingjeff's image, though your timing leaves that open to question as well.
  
  I'm removing the tagging on Image:German1 shepherd German States Before and since the French Revolution I Baden .jpg which you tagged that night as well. I'm usually good (Anal, really) about adding links. Sorry—the bad blood on the image had me figuring you were one of the edit warring partisans.
  
  I assume there is no review process on these, so I can clear the tags on these as I add the source links should any others show up. Do acquaint yourself with the University of Texas Library in general, and the key Atlases and authors of same. 'Shepard' should have been good enough, may he RIP!
  
  When did this policy go into place??? (I've been off in real life, and if my car hadn't been totaled, would be still) Hopefully Jimbo is finally growing a backbone and sees the matured project needs some consistency. Best regards // FrankB 14:17, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Signature suggestion

More on courtesy to others and respect for their time...

Suggest you sign off and sign on so as to grab the UC version (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Abu_Badali&redirect=no) of the signature name you are using and redirect to this page. See example http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:FrankB&redirect=no. This suggestion implimented by many, I credit Mgm for the same advice nearly a year back now. Best wishes // FrankB 21:49, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another Image Question

Sorry to bug you, but if on an image page it says "This photo is public", does that meen it's free? 75pickup (talk • contribs) 01:00, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Indian politician images

I would like to understand your rationale behind tagging all Indian politician photos with {{Replaceable fair use}}. Much hard work has gone into uploading those photos. When a replaceable image is found, the fair-use image can be deleted and new image used. But deleting all the images makes no sense to me. These are photos owned by the government of India. They should rightfully release all the photos like the U.S. government does. I honestly don't believe using them as fair-use is a violation of Wikipedia image policy. Can you please revert your edits and have a discussion first? -- Ganeshk (talk) 17:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

They are indeed a violation of Wikipedia image policy, at least for any politician who is still alive. Please see WP:FUC. We are not permitted to use copyrighted non-freely-licensed images to depict living people. --Yamla 17:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Yamla. Let me check the relavant policy. I have still asked guidance at ANI per below. -- Ganeshk (talk) 17:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I went through WP:FUC. I could not find the specific sentence about living people. Could you please quote the relavant sentence? Thanks, Ganeshk (talk) 17:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

You should be aware of this request on ANI. -- Ganeshk (talk) 17:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

It is sad to see you continuing to tag fair-use photos for deletion without proper discussion. [2] and [3] for examples. -- Ganeshk (talk) 17:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

If you follow #1 strictly, there would no reason to allow for uploads on Wikipedia. Images add value to articles. It is not always feasible to find free-images all the time. ~~What do you expect from #8? Do you want the politician to be dancing?~~ -- Ganeshk (talk) 17:52, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I have responsed on ANI. It may not always be feasible to find free images all of the time but for subjects where it is possible, Wikipedia has decided the choice is between a free image or no image at all. There are still plenty of places where free images cannot be created, however. For example, Natalee Holloway. Or images of fictional characters. --Yamla 18:12, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia has decided the choice is between a free image or no image at all is simply not true. In fact, Wikipedia:Copyrights says All original Wikipedia text is distributed under the GFDL. Occasionally, Wikipedia articles may include images, sounds, or text quotes used under the U.S. Copyright law "fair use" doctrine. It is preferred that these be obtained under the most free (libre) license (such as the GFDL or public domain) practical. In cases where no such images/sounds are currently available, then fair use images are acceptable (until such time as free images become available). Please don't mis-state the facts. Jenolen 23:40, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

The full quote is "It may not always be feasible to find free images all of the time but for subjects where it is possible, Wikipedia has decided the choice is between a free image or no image at all". This is indeed the case, please see WP:FUC, first criteria. --Yamla 23:49, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry

Looks like an apology is in order. I jumped to the conclusion you were taking the deletion decisions unialterally. I went through all the links you kindly provided. I guess if Jimbo feels this way (as I had read), that's the way to go. :) Again appreciate your help. Now I have go back to learning the fairuse policy once again. -- Ganeshk (talk) 23:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Assuming Good Faith

I'm going to assume good faith on your part, and point out that you appear to be overlooking the "After adding this tag, please notify the uploader..." with your agressive "replaceable fair use/FUC#1" campaign. Please do not overlook that part, as it is contrary to the Wikipedia spirit, and could be interpreted as poor behavior on your part.

Put another way, if you're going to challenge my contributions to Wikipedia, please have the courtesy to tell me. Thanks! Jenolen 23:40, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Renato Aragão

It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from Renato Aragão. Please be careful not to remove content from Wikipedia without a valid reason, which you should specify in the edit summary or on the article's talk page. Take a look at our welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. --Scottandrewhutchins 05:21, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

I know we haven't got along in the past before, but I wanted to thank you for reverting that guy's vandalism on my userpage a couple of days ago. I appreciate it.--CyberGhostface 20:10, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

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