Talk:1958 FIFA World Cup
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[edit] Requested move
Football World Cup 1958 → 1958 FIFA World Cup – following the consensus of naming the World Cup articles as FIFA World Cup in Wikipedia, and consistency of naming the major international football tournaments.
Discuss here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Competitions#Requested move of Football World Cup articles. --Pkchan 10:41, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The use of Goal average in this tournament
FIFA had not decided how goal average would be used in this tournament. This report, posted on june 12 was halfway through the group stages.
From a report in The Times, Friday, Jun 13, 1958, pg. 15
... The tables now take on new significane because in the last day or two the F.I.F.A. organizing committee have apparently decided, though it has not been announced, that goal average shall play a bigger part than originally intended and is now of primary importance after the points awarded. ... [I]f Brazil and Russia draw and England win, these three would have four points each and goal averages would play thier part. A replay will only be neccesary if goal averages are equal. |
From a report in The Times, Saturday, Jun 14, 1958, pg. 10
... There seems to have been a muddle over the various statements on goal average. Sir Stanley Rous, speaking at longe[sic] range to me this morning, said that the British text was now the one chosen and that a play-off between sides of equal points would have priority over actual goal average which would count only if the play-were indecisive--or words to that effect. |
From a report in The Times, Tuesday, Jun 17, 1958, pg. 3
All three play-offs to-day in the World Cup Association Football competition will be begun at 7 p.m. (B.S.T.) ... Extra time will be played, if necessary and should the teams still be level, the goal average of their three previous group matches will count. If these are identical for both countries a draw by lot would decide the qualifier.
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So as you see there was some confusion about how goal average would be used. I can't find any reference as to why France were placed above Yugoslavia in the group, but it seems logical that as both teams had qualified then a play-off was unecessary. Perhaps they drew lots, perhaps it was because they won 2 games while Yugoslavia won 1 and dreew 2. But it's probably more likely that they simply used goal average. This was basically what I had written before, but I had forgotten the details and got confused. Jooler 11:08, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- Assuming the above to be correct then as goal average was only of consequence with regarding France Yugoslava, I decided to leave it out. Also all of the tables that accompany the above reports, and indeed FIFAs own tables here - http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/p/pwc/r/1958.html do not show GAv, but I don't care if you put it in. However goal difference should definitely not be put in. Jooler 11:11, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Mmm. As far as I have understood, goal average has been used. They say that play-offs have the priority, but after extra-time, if still level, GAv is used. So we should put it in. And, IMO, it is likely that it has been used to determine who placed 1st between France and Yugoslavia. The criteria were, in order of priority:
- 1. Play-Offs
- 2. Goal Average
- 3. Drawing Lots
I think that it would be a good assumption to say that when no play-off has been played, then the 2nd criterion has been used. --Calippo 12:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- As you please. I seem to remember that I started to add goal average to one of the tournaments and then decided not to as I was unsure of the situatiohn of having infinite goal average. Indeed I've read a contempary report in the times (probably from 1962) which says the FIFA were unsure of whether a team with goals for/against of 1:1 should be placed above or below a team with a ratio of 0:0. Apologies for my mistake earlier, a red mist came down when I saw goal difference. Jooler 13:34, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah I know why I didn't include GAv now. I don't really like seeing the infinity sign in there. If sone team had a for/against of 5:0 and another had 4:0 they'd both have infinite goal average. Jooler 15:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Altafini
Josè Altafini used the nickname "Mazzola" when in Brazil. Some sources report "Mazola", a likely portuguese mispelling of the name of the italian player Valentino Mazzola. Later he dropped the nickname and he was known simply as Altafini. Since the FIFA match report indicates him as "Josè Altafini", it's better to call him this way. --Calippo 12:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Brazilian Flag
The flag in 1958 is not the same they have today (it has been changed in 1960 and then again in 1992). --Calippo 12:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
- This is true, however I did a web search to find what the flag was in the two previous incarnations, and all I could find were sites in Portugese. Do you know of any sites which discribe the changes in the flag exactly, if so I can make up the two intermediate flags. -- Deville (Talk) 02:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
- To follow up, they use the current flag on the Portugese side as well, and as far as I can tell noone has made the flags for the Portugese WP either. -- Deville (Talk) 02:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
