Disputatio Usoris:GiovaneScuola2006

E Vicipaedia

Gratia tibi ago propter magnum opus (Verdi, Puccini etc.) Ciao--Massimo Macconi 05:37, 23 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Index 1 imagines onerare 2 slow down! 3 Fons urbes 4 Grazie.. 5 Urbes Europae 6 Cities with F 7 Urbes XY and XY 8 Noreia 9 many things 10 Indeed Flandricus/a/um 11 est 12 Cesare Frank 13 premio 14 Cities in native languages ONLY ? 15 Helsingia (Finnia) 16 Uploading images 17 Campanarius

[recensere] imagines onerare

Gratias ago ut imagines oneravisti. Quaeso te ut imagines non in Vicipaediam Latinam oneres, sed in Vicimediam Communiam. Imagines ibi oneratae nam in omnes Vicipaediis adhiberi possunt. Vide Vicipaedia:Imago.

Thank you for uploading images. Please upload images not to the Latin wikipedia, but to commons:, images uploaded there can be used on all wikipedias just as if they were uploaded locally. See Vicipaedia:Imago. Thank you for contributing, and have fun on the Latin vicipaedia! --UV 22:14, 23 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Gratias milies! However, could you explain to me exactly how to do it, step-by-step? I've been to commons a few times but have been perplexed as to where to go. Thank you again, grazie di nuovo, vielen Dank ... GiovaneScuola2006 22:22, 23 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Look at commons:Commons:First steps. (There is also an Italian translation at commons:Commons:Primi passi but it is incomplete.) If you have any further questions, just ask me! Greetings, --UV 23:04, 23 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

I repeat my request to upload images to commons only. Thanks! --UV 06:38, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] slow down!

Hi, what language do you prefer? I write to ask you to slow down a bit! You have created much today, and it needs to be better before you create more. For instance...do not write in an article vide [[Genava (urbs)]], but use a redirect like I did. You can do this by typing "#REDIRECT [[Articlename]]" as the only content. You also need to check your names in some cases, and note categories are marked by [[]] not by {{}}. Also, PLEASE provide interwiki links, I clicked on the article on the slovakian town in slovakian, and there were dozens of interwiki links. Also, it is not enough to just make an article that says "Town (language: "el towne")" in an article. At least make one sentence. Sorry if this was alot, but I fear I will have much to clean up if you don't take these necessary steps. Thanks! Ioshus ^(disp) 23:40, 23 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Italian, English, or Neapolitan are fine. Don't worry about this "skeletal" process. I plan on doing all the cleaning up myself. I hereby appoint myself the slave to Urbes Europaeae. I, of course, would like feedback, from you and all the others. Just a little guidance here and there. But I will do the labor. Does this sound like a fair plan? In any case, I am almost finished entering the new cities, and then I promise to go back and make them better. Actually: why don't you give me a template or example of what you feel a stub for a city should look like. I will go back and make EVERY ENTRY conform. Scout's honor! GiovaneScuola2006 23:42, 23 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Fons urbes

La fonte per tutte le città europeane cui voci ho scritto oggi si trova qua: http://www.osservatoriolibri.com/luoghi.html

Vi prego, per cortesia: non farmi ad aggiungere quella "footnote" su OGNI pagina che ho fatto! Pazienza ... GiovaneScuola2006 00:48, 24 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Grazie..

per le molte nuove pagine che hai aperto. Mi peremttevo soltanto di consigliarti di verificare su altrte wiki ad esempio it.wiki se esiste già una pagina in latino. Alcune infatti c'erano giä. Ancora grazie e buona serata--Massimo Macconi 16:53, 24 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

'O fazzo mo'. Grazie comm'a sempe. Statte bon' GiovaneScuola2006 19:32, 24 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Urbes Europae

Hi, if you want that a page will be deleted, just put the command {{delenda}} into the page, provide a reason and sign it with ~~~~. Or, if you have moved the content to another page, put #REDIRECT [[Other page]] into it. --Roland (disp.) 18:48, 24 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, Roland. I was absolutely unaware of that procedure, and I will use it in the future (even though I was deleting a page that I myself had created. GiovaneScuola2006 19:31, 24 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Examples of such pages you'll find here: Categoria:Deletiones propositae and some hints here: Vicipaedia:Deletio. --Roland (disp.) 19:44, 24 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Aha. Now I will now for the future. Tantissime grazie. GiovaneScuola2006 19:47, 24 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Cities with F

I have answered your question and removed some supercategories, please see Vicipaedia:Categoria#Supercategories. --Roland (disp.) 21:55, 25 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Urbes XY and XY

It's me again ;-) ... I think, if something is in category "Urbes XY" it is implicitly in category "XY" as well, because "Urbes XY" should be in category "XY". So the page itself should not be put into category "XY". If you do not think so, please let's discuss it. This Vicipaedia does not have so much rules which are written down, so sometimes our philosophies clash when different cultures come together. This is mostly not a problem but sometimes it causes some confusion first. ;-) My idea is, that we should write down "our" rules in the Vicipaedia namespace, in this case maybe page Vicipaedia:Categoria would be appropriate. From these pages we can have interwiki links to other "cultures", I mean "wikipedias", like en:Wikipedia:Categorization or de:Wikipedia:Kategorien. --Roland (disp.) 10:48, 26 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Roland. I agree with your philosophy, as I understand it. In fact, I have been going through all of the Urbes Europaeae and changing the category from "parent" to "child." In other words, if a Serbian city has "Categoria:Urbes Europaeae", I'd deleted that and put "Categoria:Serbia" and "Categoria:Urbes Serbiae". This was my understanding of what you were recommending. If not, I say to you and all: I will personally go back and change all of my vandalism! But as I understood it, this is what people were suggesting. GiovaneScuola2006 10:51, 26 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism is, what a vandal does. You are not a vandal, but a busy contributor. :-) Thank you for your work. There is no need for an excuse. It just shows that we should write down more of what we feel to be established as rule or convention here. Making the category as specific as possible was good, like changing "Categoria:Urbes Europaeae" to "Categoria:Urbes Serbiae". But then "Categoria:Serbia" becomes a supercategory of "Categoria:Urbes Serbiae" and is not necessary any more ... in my opinion ;-) ... although I know of some people who would agree with me in this point ;-) There is even a page where I tried to show some inconsistencies with the categorisation: Vicipaedia:Categoriae et paginae, however, it has not been discussed much, so it is more or less just my personal opinion. Generally: Feel free to bring in your opinions. ;-) --Roland (disp.) 11:14, 26 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I'm too new here to have a strong opinion about this. HOWEVER, I do agree -- and it was something I noticed on other websites like dmoz.org -- that it seemed funny to have pages in a category and then have subcategories. Anyhow, I went through the 51 cities, so that now:

Categoria:Urbes Europaeae

Categoriae inferiores

Paginae in categoria "Urbes Europaeae"

now there are no longer straggling pages under paginae.

Next problem: I noticed that under Categoriae inferiores, "Urbes Lithuaniae" (to give one example) did not come up automatically. I actually had to go to Category:Urbes Lituaniae and put in some code. So I found myself straining to remember all the countries that were missing (Melitta, Nederlandia, etc.).

Anyhow, I am relieved that I seem to have achieved what you had in mind, and that I am neither a Vandal nor a Goth! GiovaneScuola2006 11:20, 26 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Maybe I do not understand the problem with "Urbes Lithuaniae", but maybe it was just a caching problem. In case you do not know, there is a "Special page" (see "Paginae speciales" in the left column) which lists all pages without categories. Then there is a list of pages which do not have parent pages etc. I have put some of these special pages into page Vicipaedia:Census. --Roland (disp.) 11:43, 26 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Noreia

Always me ... ;-) You should not trust everything you find here ;-) In Noreia I collected links to show some contradictions. Some sources say Noreia = Neumarkt in der Steiermark but other sources tell that Die Lage der Hauptstadt Noreia ist bis heute unbekannt geblieben. (The location of the capital Noreia is unknown until today.). It seems that there are several theories where Noreia was located. --Roland (disp.) 20:08, 26 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

No problem, Roland -- edit as you see fit. Cum amicitium (accusative, right????) GiovaneScuola2006 20:23, 26 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Cum takes ablative... amicitia...--Ioshus ^(disp) 01:21, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] many things

1. Dutch is properly lingua Batava, the adverb being Batave.
2. Use a heading ==Vide etiam== if you want to tell someone to see something else.
3. Link the language name to the corresponding latin article.
4. Link the name of the city to the proper local language wiki. Use commas in between languages for, and colons after language names in the title sentence.
5. Go to the english article or the local language article, and get all the interwiki links for the article.

1. While you're there put a link to the article on the english wiki or the local language wiki to the latin article.

Please go to Aldenarda to see the format changes I have made. Adhere to them in your past and future work. Thank you.--Ioshus ^(disp) 23:06, 26 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

and one more thing: If you create a category, please add interlanguage links to the corresponding categories on other wikipedias, like here. Thank you! --UV 23:16, 26 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

My sincerest thanks to both of you. I will do as instructed. GiovaneScuola2006 23:45, 26 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Dutch is properly lingua Batava, the adverb being Batave. OK, I won't say "Batavice" any more. However, in the case of these cities in the Flemish part of Belgium, I feel that it should be lingua Flandriae, adverb Flandrice. GiovaneScuola2006 23:51, 26 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, I think the adjective is Flandrica, let's not use a genitive of Flandria.--Ioshus ^(disp) 01:20, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Let's please make a decision either way. I'm more than happy to do the leg-work and go back and change all the adjectives. However, shall we make a firm decision? To whit: Does the word "Flandrica" show up anywhere? GiovaneScuola2006 01:24, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Yes. As I said, it is the proper adjective.--Ioshus ^(disp) 19:45, 28 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Indeed Flandricus/a/um

I searched around and, indeed, Flandricus, -a, -um would be the correct adjective for Flemish. I will have to assume, then, that the adverb would be simply Flandrice. I will go ahead and make the changes. GiovaneScuola2006 03:37, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] est

Just like in english or italiano est does not go at the end of a sentence in latin.

A est B

non

A B est.

"Lingua blah blah blah est lingua adhibita blah blah blah"

non

"Lingua blah blah blah lingua adhibita bla blah blah est."

--Ioshus ^(disp) 01:14, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Ahhhh... Did not know that. I knew that the verb goes at the end generally (like in German). However, I should have known better: even in German, ist usually does not go at the end. Mea maxima culpa, and many, many thanks. GiovaneScuola2006 01:17, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

"Just like in english or italiano est does not go at the end of a sentence in latin." In the pattern "A est B," yes, usually so, as evidence on my page illustrates; but in association with a participle in the perfect system, it seems happy to be there (as in, e.g., "Et homo factus est"). This distinction shouldn't be hard to grasp, as those patterns are as different as night & day. My suspicion is that if an old Roman saw a sentence of the shape "A B est," the est would have a mentally musical "ta-da" attached to it, so that an appropriate English translation might be something like "A really-really-really is B." In other words, est ordinarily has no stress (and often gets reduced to a vowelless st), but when it gains stress by position, as when it ends a copula, that result must mean something—something more than just the semantics of 'to be', maybe something like "ta-da." IacobusAmor 03:26, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Cesare Frank

forse si potrebbe muovere a Caesar Franck, vedo che le altre pagine biografiche riportano il nome sempre in latino.

Cavoli che bel lavoro stai facendo, buona giornata--Massimo Macconi 05:19, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

forse si potrebbe muovere a Caesar Franck Sí sí, hai ragionissimo.:

Cavoli che bel lavoro stai facendo In quel caso, perché non mi nomini per un premio, "per il suo instancabile lavoro sulle città d'Europa." O forse solo gli Admin possano ricevere i premi. Boh, vedi tu! Un abbraccio, GiovaneScuola2006 05:21, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] premio

sai sono relativamente nuovo sia della wiki in italiano sia ancora di più di quella in latino, non so chi da i premi e chi li riceve ( se ce ne sono), io in ogni caso sono con te. Ricambio l'abbraccio con amicizia--Massimo Macconi 05:24, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

I find the amount of things you contribute wonderful! However, in order to ensure that the vicipedia encyclopedia is useful to users who use it as a reference, the articles should have a common structure and style which is determined in discussions of the contributors (not the administrators!). You will "receive a prize" when you contribute in such a way that does not make other contributors feel that they need to clean up after you. Please do not understand me wrong: As a new user, everyone understands that you do not know all the "rules" established by the community yet, and people will give you hints on your talk page like the ones above. It might also be a good idea to watch the pages you have started or changed and just to observe what changes are made by other users afterwards.

Why don't you, as Ioshus suggested above, slow down a bit concerning the creation of new articles, create less articles in number but pay extra attention to their quality (including interwiki links and all the stuff as suggested above)?

Nevertheless: Good to have you here, and continue to enjoy improving the quality of the Latin vicipaedia! Greetings, --UV 06:38, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

I am anxious to know what the "common structure and style" should be. That is to say: what is an article of a city which, you feel, is archetypical? Please don't say London or Paris; most of the cities are smallish towns that there just isn't enough information for. Maybe you could do this for me: pick any given Flemish city, edit it the way you all feel an article here should be, and I myself will do all clean-up work. Scout's honor. No one should ever feel I'm making them clean up, because I have offered and continue to offer to do the cleaning myself. If what I'm doing at the moment is a little skeletal, that is the way I work the best, if that is alright. Till soon, GiovaneScuola2006 08:24, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at Antwerpium – alas very few content, but has good links and a structure ready to be expanded.

• if there is an image (not necessary), display it as a thumb but do not specify an absolute size (200px). Include a caption that describes the image.
• The name of the article, exactly equal to its title, bolded (nothing else should be bold).
• A reference to a reliable source where this particular name is attested.
• ([[Lingua Batava|Batave]]: ''[[:nl:Antwerpen|Antwerpen]]'') The name in its native language (only).
• At least one sentence that explains what this article is about, e. g. … est urbs in [[XXX]]. Add internal links if pages about countries, regions etc. exist already. Do not put "est." at the end of the sentence.
• Notae/references
• An external link to the corresponding page at commons using the {{Communia}} template. If there is no corresponding page on commons but a corresponding category, link to the category. If there is neither a page nor a category on commons, omit.

Heading is "Nexus externus" if there is one external link (including the commons link) and "Nexus externi" if there is more than one external link.

• urbs-stipula
• A specific category (or more specific categories), excluding all supercategories.
• Interlanguage links to the corresponding pages on other wikipedias (not categories).

Maybe other people will complain here that one sentence is not enough – but I would accept a one-sentence-stub (with a specific category and interlanguage links) if it explains clearly and without flaws what this page is about.

If you are unsure about grammar, spelling and the like, you can always add {{reddenda}} at the top of your article, then others will check it.

Greetings, --UV 23:36, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Many, many thankyous! I'm especially pleased to know about fn|reddenda -- often I have indeed had questions. GiovaneScuola2006 23:38, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for compiling this list. This receipe should be copied to the Vicipaedia namespace. --Roland (disp.) 07:39, 28 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

yes, that's the problem that makes it difficult for new users: our help pages (in the Vicipaedia namespace) still need to be improved a lot … --212.152.139.74 14:14, 28 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Cities in native languages ONLY ?

Dear UV et al.,

Just today, e.g., I was trying to figure out the Latin name for Kiev. I had a purgatory of a time, and so I went ahead and added "Anglice: Kiev." I mean, how am I supposed to decipher Cyrillic? That, in my opinion, is taking de-anglicization too far.

Another example would be countries in which there are more than one native language. Belgium and Switzerland immediately come to mind. We could think of many others, I'm sure. Malta, for instance, has two official languages, Maltese (a Semitic language) and English.

Was wondering if you all could give a bit of thought to these two points.

Cum multis gratiis (abl. pl. -- did I get that right?) GiovaneScuola2006 23:53, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Parts of your question I have answered on page Disputatio:Chiovia. --Roland (disp.) 08:44, 28 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

So did I: Disputatio:Chiovia. Greetings, --UV 09:26, 28 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Me too. Frankly I don't think we take de-anglicization far enough around here.--Ioshus ^(disp) 15:38, 28 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Consentio. Latina aut mamma! <---Horrible pun, intelligible only in English. IacobusAmor 16:32, 28 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Helsingia (Finnia)

For the usage of Roman numbers see Vicipaedia:Numerus ;-) --Roland (disp.) 09:14, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

I am not a big supporter of the "Arabic numbers fraction" but they have the better arguments ;-) Roman numbers are more fun. --Roland (disp.) 09:42, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

We can still use them to enumerate centuries, kings & queens & other high-ranking political figures, popes, modern Olympics, movie sequels, superbowls, volumes (of books), and such. We have moderation in all things, including our fun! IacobusAmor 13:06, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

These are all small numbers (e. g. Ricardus III Angliae Rex) ... ok, the popes sometimes come near to 30 ... but "circiter 562'570 incolarum" ... this would be REAL BIG fun!! ... hmm ...maybe too funny ... obviously it is more sane to use Arabic numbers. ;-) --Roland (disp.) 13:30, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

I agree -- in fact, unless I'm mistaken, a number like 500,000 could be written only with lines over the letters, which no computer that I know of is able to do. Am I correct in that? GiovaneScuola2006 13:57, 27 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Uploading images

Hi, you uploaded some images, like . UV was heavily engaged in moving images from the Latin Vicipaedia to Commons some time ago. He moved hundreds of them. And then we deleted those hundreds here. There is some information at Vicipaedia:Imago#Imagines_onerare. --Roland (disp.) 08:34, 28 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

Yes, in fact it is the first issue on this talk page.--Ioshus ^(disp) 15:36, 28 Octobris 2006 (UTC)

[recensere] Campanarius

While there is a discussion about a page, you should leave it as it is. And the meta information should be on the talk page, not on the page itself. The current situation with partly redirected pages is a bit confusing. --Roland (disp.) 19:39, 28 Octobris 2006 (UTC)