Diskussion:Finnkampen

Wikipedia

Nu har Finnkampen dirigerats om till detta artikelnamn, som inte är språkligt korrekt. Det ligger något i argumentet om NPOV, men samtidigt är Finnkampen - och inte denna bristfälliga direktöversättning från finskan - det namn under vilket evenemanget är känt hos de flesta svenskspråkiga. Principen om minsta möjliga förvåning säger "Finnkampen" med "Sverigekampen" som omdirigeringssida. Det heter definitivt inte "Finland-Sverige landskampen i friidrott" på svenska, utan - beroende på perspektiv - Finnkampen eller Sverigekampen. // Tysen 25 augusti 2006 kl. 21.19 (CEST)

På Finlands friidrottsförbunds webbsida www.suomiruotsimaaottelu.fi används beteckningen "Finnkampen". Thuresson 25 augusti 2006 kl. 21.27 (CEST)

Medhåll. Enligt principen om minsta möjliga förvåning gäller Finnkampen. Nuvarande namn finns inte (det är inte inom Wikipedias befogenheter att uppfinna nya namn, vilket räknas som egenforskning), och är dessutom ogrammatiskt. /Fenix 25 augusti 2006 kl. 21.29 (CEST)

Även fi:Suomi-Ruotsi-maaottelu anger "Finnkampen" och "Sverigekampen" som svenskspråkiga namn på evenemanget. Än konstigare då att artikeln på sv: heter något helt annat. // Tysen 25 augusti 2006 kl. 21.55 (CEST)

sv-Wikipedia is Swedish language version of Wikipedia, not the "Wikipedia of Sweden". It is about language, not country. Swedish Wikipedia is not only for the Swedish people, and it is not neutral to only see things from the Swedish point of view, actually it is totally against the NPOV-rule. The neutral name is "Finland-Sweden athletics international" like it is in Finnish and English Wikipedia. --SM 25 augusti 2006 kl. 22.29 (CEST)

The problem with that name is, that no-one would ever dream of searching for "Finsk-svenska landskampen i friidrott" or what you would like to call the article. The name simply doesn't exist, but would be a construction used only by the Swedish Wikipedia, which is against our policies. I guess that at least 90% of the Swedish speaking people in the world would search for "Finnkampen" rather than anything else, and the remaining probably for "Svenskkampen". "Finnkampen" is also used in the official information from both the Swedish and Finnish Atlethics Federations, so I'd say that is the Swedish name for the competition, both in Sweden and the rest of the world. //Lelle1987 25 augusti 2006 kl. 22.47 (CEST)

I understand what you mean, but using non-neutral words, even if it is the most common word, is against the NPOV policy. You can make a redirect from Finnkampen and other words that someone would ever dream of searching. Of course Finnish Track & Field Federation use this word for selling tickets to Swedish people on their pages på svenska, but it has nothing to do do with the name of the article. Notice that both Finnish and English Wikipedias use the neutral name. --SM 25 augusti 2006 kl. 23.33 (CEST)

As far as I can understand, the article was found under the name "Finnkampen" in English until you changed it there too, so I would say that it is pretty irrelevant in this question. I cannot see that a made up name of the article would be more neutral than the word "Finnkampen", that's like naming the article "English Channel" "The strait between France and England" just because that would be more "neutral". I'm afraid that you are pretty alone about your opinion, and that consensus will name the article "Finnkampen" after all anyway. I guess we'll have to wait for a few others to say what they think, because we can's settle this question just the two of us. In the meantime I hope that the competitions will be as thrilling tomorrow as they were today, and of course that Sweden can stay ahead of the Finnish teams. ;-) //Lelle1987 25 augusti 2006 kl. 23.59 (CEST)

In English there is not a word for this athletics international. Defending the name Finnkampen is irrelevant because it just happened to be so that some Swedish user wrote that article. From Finnish point of view the same kind of non-NPOV name would have been Ruotsi-ottelu (Swede-battle). Now the English name is from neutral point of view, neither Finnish or Swedish, and no one there hasn't complained. English Channel has nothing to do with this. Seems that the users of Swedish Wikipedia have not understood what the NPOV policy means. I hope fair play and may the best teams will win in every category, and I also hope that the best teams will be Finnish. --SM 26 augusti 2006 kl. 00.33 (CEST)

As I've already said above in Swedish, it is not within the jurisdiction of Wikipedia to make names up. A name such as the one this article was briefly moved to simply does not exist, and we have no authority to create it. /Fenix 26 augusti 2006 kl. 10.27 (CEST)

The problem is that this event is called Finnkampen in Swedish. All the advertisements and media focusing on it uses the word Finnkampen, therefore it would make no sense creating another name for it. Icea 26 augusti 2006 kl. 19.38 (CEST)

An article should be named by the most popular name in its respective languages, due to both English Wikipedia and Swedish Wikipedia naming standards, sometimes NPOV has to stand back there. "Finnkampen" is by far the most popular Swedish name for the event, since, well, at least 90% of the Swedish speakers in the world live in Sweden. Anyone searching for Sverigekampen will find the correct article anyway. And this is Swedish Wikipedia, please argue in Swedish. /Grillo 26 augusti 2006 kl. 04.52 (CEST)

Actually, it isn't really a matter of NPOV. Rather, it is using either a real name or a fake name. And that the majority of Swedish speakers live in Sweden doesn't really matter either; what does matter is that as long as the majority of Swedish speakers (who, accidentally, happen to live in Sweden) calls it one way, the article should be named in that way. English Wikipedia doesn't really have any standards for this; rather, they mostly argue that matters such as this are incomparable to the naming of Bayern by the English name Bavaria (and the like), in which I disagree, considering these situations to be very comparable indeed. /Fenix 26 augusti 2006 kl. 10.46 (CEST)