Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Forgotten Realms

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Contents 1 FR Wiki 2 Template 2.1 New entries 2.1.1 Government 3 Proposed rearrangement 4 Discussion of above arrangement 4.1 Regions 4.2 (Temporary) Merging 4.3 Free cities vs. other cities 5 Maps 6 Proposal for new template entries 7 Geography focus 8 WikiProject RPGs 9 Active? 10 Copyrights 11 Currency of the Realms 12 FR-related template 13 Netheril deleted! 14 Project Directory 15 moonsea article 16 Fair Use Image in Banner

[edit] FR Wiki

What to do about the FR Wiki, should we start moving info over there? The regional sites (i.e. Northwest Faerûn) are great to have here, but the lesser known places will always be stubs, as I see it, and might be better suited at FR Wiki? Any opinions?Poulsen 14:37, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I didn't know about this Wiki. Goals of this wikiproject are:

• Not reinventing the wheel
• Centralising information
• Focusing on state geography

Obviously, there are conflicts with FR Wiki. Could you contact them and ask if they want to participate? Whatever is their answer, since they ar use GNU licence, we should start copying their informations, as you suggest. A proposal would be to copy-and-paste and let survival of the fittest determines which one will eventually succeed in the long run (for now on, notice there is nothing about Cormyr in FR Wiki, which is quite worrying regarding their completeness). Reply to David Latapie 21:38, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I've already made a notice in their main discussion page, I'll write here when/if they respond. Until now the only thing on there is Drizzt and a few Drizzt-related items, so this FR-database is far the best.Poulsen 21:58, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

no answer after more than one week :/Reply to David Latapie 02:46, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi, I'm the admin of FR Wiki. I've just come off of a busy period in my life but I'm ready to help.

Further to your comments: FR wiki is not all about Drizzt, that's just what I had to start with when I took over from the previous admin. I've personally been adding more articles, but as I stated on the main page I'm only one man and I need help from you guys to get it further off the ground. Admin positions are available. I'm willing to help with the mapping project but I would also like some people to help me. We can talk about a merger if there is significant demand for it. hash 09:47, 20 January 2006 (GMT)

Just to clarify - when I wrote it was all about Drizzt, it was November 23rd, and it *was* all about Drizzt, as the then admin "Drizzt" seemed to have an interest in that specific topic.. Anyways, I'ld love to help out as much as my time allows, I'm just a little confused as to what extent we can freely copy material from wikipedia to wikicities? Poulsen 09:58, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Alright, just answered that myself - as long as we're reproducing the free content here at another free content webside it is no problem, so I'm with you hash. Poulsen 10:02, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

And the rest of you? Poulsen has already moved a tonne of geographical stuff to FR wiki. I'm looking to get as many editors as possible. hash 14:36, 27 January 2006 (GMT)

[edit] Template

[edit] New entries

[edit] Government

As for your suggestion about adding a government entry in the template box, this is a good idea. Do you know how to do it or do you want me to do it? I would be better if you did it, as you would be able to teach to others as well. You know, give a fish or teach how to fish… Reply to David Latapie 21:38, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed rearrangement

Northwest Faerûn

High Forest

Waterdeep (city) <- Skullport

Silver Marches <- Mithral Hall

Silverymoon

Anauroch <- Empire of Shadows, Hlaungadath, Reghed

The Savage Frontier

Sword Coast <- Icewind Dale, Luskan, Mirabar, Ten Towns

North Faerûn

Cormanthor <- Myth Drannor

The Vast

The Dalelands <- Archendale, Battledale, Daggerdale, Deepingdale, Featherdale, Freedale, Harrowdale (Forgotten Realms), High Dale, Mistledale, Moondale, Sessrendale, Shadowdale, Scardale, Tarkhaldale, Tasseldale, Teshendale

The Moonsea <- The Ride, Thar (Forgotten Realms), The Tortured Land, Dragonspine Mountains, Melvaunt, Mulmaster, Northkeep, Voonlar, Zhentil Keep, Phlan

Northeast Faerûn

The Unapproachable East (east and northeast) <- Great Dale, Impiltur, Rashemen, Aglarond (Forgotten Realms) (<- Altumbel), Thay, Thesk (<- Ashanath, Telflamm)

The Cold Lands <- Sossal, Damara (Forgotten Realms), Vaasa (Forgotten Realms)

Narfell

The Hordelands <- Winterkeep

West Faerûn

Western Heartlands <- Castle Darkhold, Daggerford, Dragonspear Castle, Evereska, High Moor, Scornubel, Secomber

Lands of Intrigue

Tethyr <- Erlkazar, Edificant Library

Calimshan

Amn

Athkatla <- Waukeen's Promenade

Interior Faerûn

Cormyr, Dragon Coast, Sembia

The Vilhon Reach <- Chondath, Sespech, Turmish, Shining Plains, Hlondeth

East Faerûn

Old Kingdoms (Forgotten Realms) <- Murghôm, Semphar, Chessenta, Mulhorand, Unther

Southwest Faerûn

Chultan peninsula <- Chult, Tashalar, Samarach, Thindol

South Faerûn

Shaar, Halruaa

Lake of Steam <- Lapaliiya, Border Kingdoms

Southeast Faerûn

Ulgarth

Shining South (south and southeast) <- Dambrath, Durpar, Estagund, Rethild, Var the Golden, Veldorn, Great Rift, Luiren

Underdark

Menzoberranzan

Island Kingdoms of Faerûn <- Moonshae Isles, Nelanther Isles, Lantan, Nimbral, Tharsult, Prespur

Evermeet

Lost Empires of Faerûn <- Athalantar, Eaerlann, Guge (Forgotten Realms), Illefarn, Ilythiir, Imaskar, Jhaamdath, Miyeritar, Netheril, Raumathar, Shantel Othreier, Coramshan, Eastern Shaar, Pelvuria, Ammarindar, Deep Shanatar

The main goal of the mergings is to cut down on stubs, and create pages, not of long prose, but overview of each region, with links and references to further reading. Minor geographical sites will be merged with countries or regions, there will still be 9 geographical regions, plus three additional meta-regions, Underdark, Island Kingdoms of Faerûn (minor islands across Faerûn), Lost Empires of Faerûn (historical countries).

Last update by Poulsen 00:09, 17 December 2005 (UTC).

Poulsen: the rough geopolitical sorting should only sort sovereign places (plus some places like Western Heartlands) Your above rearrangement is only for internal work, what to merge and what not to. That is why Erlkazar, for instance, is at the same level as Tethyr on the geopolitical sorting, while it is not (because it will be merged) in your above rearrangement. Reply to David Latapie 06:11, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion of above arrangement

I will rearrange the discussion, as it becomes too dense. I use history to know what you changed, I think it is the best idea. Until you reply, I keep the old text under comments. If everything's OK, I will remove it late.

[edit] Regions

Reuse your above index. Regions (such as Land of Intrigue, Old Empires...) should not have their own article but would help people figuring out how are the Realms and so are useful for a general mapping (like a “welcome screen”). Example: where is Nicaragua? In Central America. I guess you see the point.

[edit] (Temporary) Merging

Good idea with these additional infos:

• Provided enough information is given, the place will ultimately get its own article. Think CIA World Factbook.
• Let's use your own variant as a starter (a very good one, I like it very much)
• Modify it that way:
  • 2. Official Material => 2. Official Material (Thesk)
  • 3. External Links => 3. External Links (Thesk)

Granted, it does not respect stantard Wikipedia style, but our article doesn't respect it either, so...

• Moved articles should have a redirect, right to the section (not the page: Thesk#Telflamm instead of Thesk).
• Maybe also an introductory notice like this is a concantenated article about... in order to avoid good-will people to change the whole thing. I'm not sure it is necessary, though, as we are the only one working on it :-) So let's consider this as an option.

In the midst of your edits, I tried to merge the sources/links/.. in my variant, in the moved-to location, Wikipedia:WikiProject Forgotten Realms/Concatenated article, to 1) not have redundant section names, and 2) concentrate the links/info in one place, making it easier to access. Poulsen 11:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Free cities vs. other cities

• As you said, oddities like Waukeen's Promenade should be merged with the corresponding city (Athkatla, in that case)

• Attention: I continually speak of sovereign places, not sovereign states — this is on purpose. I consider Waterdeep (or arguably Telflamm) as a sovereign place. They are free cities. I don't know for Baldur's Gate, but Athkatla definitely is not a sovereign place. It is capital city. Check the Cities-states entry. This project is about sovereign places, I'd like to avoid any confusion on this. A possibility could be to use the FR Cities templates for non-sovereign cities exclusively — which, on you list, would leave only Athkatla as a candidate.

• Clusters of free cities (like Ten Towns or the various cities in Western Heartlands) should be grouped together. Renaissance's Venice should have its own entry, but not Middle Ages's Lyon, for instance.

Oh, I had never seen that index before, that's immensely helpful! @Athkatla, you're right about it being the only city eligible. So let us (me) leave the city templates alone and take one problem at a time, the merging/non-merging-question.Poulsen 11:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Maps

I was just wondering if it is kocher to be using WotC's maps of Faerûn? Wouldn't they be considered copyright work? It might be safer to make our own. — RJH 15:54, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

This is why I added the fair use template. And I sincerely think this Wikipedia project gives publicity to Forgotten Realms. Companies never say no to free ads :-)

Well the fair use clause says, "For each use of this image, please provide a detailed rationale as to why this image qualifies as fair use." I'm not seeing that in these images. So as a precaution it would make sense to me to come up with a boiler-plate clause; otherwise the images may get challenged and subsequently deleted. I don't believe that "free ads" falls under that law. Fair use was intended for such purposes as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research. :) — RJH 17:31, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal for new template entries

Hi,

I added a section for proposing new template entries. My first proposal is worship.
comments : only for major worships. See Chondath for example
Reply to David Latapie 06:07, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Is there a FR city template for page entries such as Silverymoon? — RJH 23:27, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

There's a Template:Infobox Forgotten Realms Cities, maybe you can use that? or change it in a way so you can.Poulsen 23:42, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

That works. Thanks. — RJH 19:38, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Worship sounds relevant, so I'ld say go ahead. Though, with the massive mergings, a lot of places have lost that country template because of space issues. Poulsen 10:04, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Geography focus

I'm curious and confused about why this project is focused solely on the geography of Faerûn. The Fogotten Realms encompasses much more than this, and several regular contributors to FR-related wikipedia articles have stressed they prefer instead to edit works on the characters, deities, history and species of FR. So why the focus on geography?

It's an admirable task, but it seems needlessly narrow to make it so specific when a WikiProjectFR should encompass all FR has to offer. -Erolos 20:31, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

David Latapie studies geography so I think that is why he focused the project on that. But I think a bigger scope would be great. Poulsen 22:34, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Poulsen sum it up quite well. Also, I was thinking of a Grand Tour of the Realms/Elminster's Ecolologies or CIA World Factbook thing. Maybe should we rename the Wikiproject Forgotten Realms Geography and make a big Forgotten Realms project for encompassing everything. I'm OK with this, although I would not help on the rest. Go aheadReply to David Latapie 18:40, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject RPGs

Hello - while looking at articles for Wikipedia:WikiProject Role-playing games I've stumbled upon one of your templates. It's funny to discover that the project has a (taxonomic) descendant that predates it by quite a bit! Anyway, hello from us at WP:RPG, and let us know if we can help in any way! Percy Snoodle 13:02, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Yes I see you put a {{ForgottenRealms-stub}} over there. Thanks. — RJH 22:04, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Active?

Is this project still active? last substantial edit to this page is around the 20th january, and the FR wiki seems equally quiet, although I've been adding some stuff over there (including some stuff I borrowed here). It's not much, but if you see soemthing you like, feel free to paste it over here :) FR Wiki Contribs[1] Zerak-Tul 20:10, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I haven't had an answer from any members of this project for a long while now. I'm wondering where everyone's gone. hash 15:31, 18 April 2006 (GMT)

I pop over every once in a while to see what's happening. Otherwise the only thing I've done lately is throw together a High Forest page. — RJH 22:08, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyrights

Hello everyone. I'd like to help the Wikiproject Forgotten Realms the best way I can. I have a small wiki for my home campaign, but I usually refrain from publishing its address because of the use of images and text (altough small) copyrighted by WotC. Lots of information here is IP of WotC. How's that work? Just like any fan home page? I mean, we can post all fluffy stuff here? Like the Maps discussion above, where should we stop? --Anand 17:57, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello, hello. It looks like any of the pages under Category:Forgotten Realms stubs could use some expansion, if you're interested. :) — RJH 22:11, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

As far as how far we can go is concerned, I believe most of it is a case of "look for precedent" and then try to model it at that level. Having said that, some pages do tend to extend beyond the definition of being encyclopedic. I believe the main aim should be to provide enough information for people to gain an understanding of what the topic is about (ie as would any encyclopedia), but not go too far that you are basically copying large sections from the source material or spelling everything out such that people can use this material as a "one stop shop" for everything they need on the topic. Somewhere in that grey area lies the answer. Enigmatical 04:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Currency of the Realms

I know this is beyond the scope of this project, but bear with me for a second. I've just been thinking about an article detailing the monetary currency of the Realms, or failing that adding sections on money and economics to articles on the various nations and areas. I have the information courtesy of Power of Faerun and City of Splendors: Waterdeep, but don't know if it'd fly as an article. Good idea? Bad idea? Suggestions? Rogue 9 17:15, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FR-related template

Since that many in the wikipedia community voiced that they don't live the way the FR people/places/events are described as if thsoe were real in the real world,

I propose to add a "This is a FR-related Article" templte, so that this can be put on every FR-related page.

It will look like this :

The wording could use some help, if anyone.

I have tried this on Elminster already.

Voice your opnion if you like.

This template has a fair use image in it, so it is unsuitable. Secondly, it serves no purpose, since articles state (usually in the first line) that they relate to the Forgotten Realms. I think this just adds unecessary clutter to the article. Sorry. Lewis 22:01, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Netheril deleted!

Great!

They deleted Netheril whithout even considering the whole wikiproject. See my reply: reply. If anyone has an archive of it…
David Latapie (✒ | @) 08:01, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Deleting parts of the project without looking at the overall picture, that's just incredible. If they don't have a back-up, we can use the FR Wiki article, but the list of resources will be lost. Poulsen 08:48, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

ignore that.. Zerak-Tul 12:30, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

About the discussion of Netheril's deletion, you can find it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Netheril. I suspect Netheril was nothing more than a redirect to Lost Empires of Faerûn, or at least it should be according to our taxonomy. I've recreated the redirect. Poulsen 13:34, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project Directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:

• User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2,
• User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States, (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
• User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory, and
• User:Badbilltucker/Science directory

and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 21:24, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now put the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 00:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] moonsea article

the article on the moonsea seems to be innacurate. I can eventually fix some of it up, but my internet connection is at work and my books are at home, so its difficult to fix. I left a comment on the talk page; if someone could check it out and verify it that would be awesome. If no one fixes it after this weekend, I'll try to work on it. PStrait 02:19, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair Use Image in Banner

I noticed your banner; it has a fair use image in it which I believe is prohibited in templates. Just a heads-up. See ya. DoomsDay349 00:06, 12 November 2006 (UTC)