Talk:Winter melon

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[edit] confused two different melons??

冬瓜 and 毛瓜 are two different plants. donggua have large leaves and they are raised on the ground. maogua are raised as vines on scaffolds hanging down. I have eaten both for several decades and I can tell you they are not the same. Perhaps some pictures will clarify what you are talking about. Kowloonese 23:34, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

I am not a botanist, so I don't know how the classification is done. From the external link, we can clearly see that there are more than two varieties, Benincasa hispida (Thunb.) Cogn. ()a.k.a Winter Melon in English) and Benincasa hispida (Thunb.) Cogn. var. chiehqua How (a.k.a NOT winter melon in English). If two varieties are classified, then it is not true that the "chiehqua How" variety is simply a baby stage of the other variety. If this article is titled Benincasa hispida, then both can fit here. However, this article is titled Winter melon which means the "chiehqua How" does not belong here. Kowloonese 00:04, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)

I'm very sorry; I meant for the external link to accompany my reply to your comment, not for it to be my reply, but there was some problem with my network after I put it in and before I could respond here.

I was in the middle of writing to clarify what we are talking about as per your request: Here's a page that shows both, more or less according to my understanding (scroll down for number 3 and number 4): [1]. Here's another page that has a better picture of 毛瓜: [2]. (I'm assuming we can take 毛瓜 and 節瓜 as synonyms.)

I'm going to save now, in case I have more network problems. I will continue writing.

— Pekinensis 00:19, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The sentence "The fruits are fuzzy when young, before the waxy coating has developed, giving rise to the name Fuzzy melon." came from WormRunner. This is actually exactly how I understood the situation before today, but we could ask for a reference.

We have the same understanding of the external link, so I believe that the "chiehqua" variety is usually eaten immature and hairy, while the other varieties are usually eaten mature and waxy. The former is called 毛瓜 or 節瓜, while the latter is called 冬瓜.

However, the "chiehqua" variety can be eaten mature, in which case it may or may not be waxy. Is that called 毛瓜 because of the variety or 冬瓜 because of the age? I have not found a reference, but I will bet my pants that the other varieties can also be eaten immature, although I'm no longer sure if they would be hairy, and I'm no longer sure what they would be called. What I'm saying is it's not clear to me whether in these two cases the age or the variety would take priority (although if pressed I would guess the age).

On the other hand, all of these questions may be separate from the question of whether there should be more than one Wikipedia article. It would be possible to have separate articles for different growth stages, or one article that covers more than one subspecies. I think this question should be driven more by content, and since for the moment I have run out of things to say about any kind of 瓜, I don't have much opinion on splitting the article or not.

It would be less work if we didn't split the article.

— Pekinensis 01:06, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have grown winter melons (no mean feat in Oregon) and they are fuzzy when young. I note here that "hispida" means hairy. I have not personally grown the varieties which are harvested as young melons, but my understanding is that the situation is very similar to zucchini versus pumpkin, i.e. two varieties of the same species selected to be at their best at different life stages. As for splitting the article, I could see it either way, as long as the two were appropriately linked. What would be lovely is if someone intimately familiar with this species and its varieties could rewrite the article and add detail. -- WormRunner | Talk 00:53, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't know if this relates to the 冬瓜 versus 毛瓜 debate, but I see that Zepheus proposed merging this article with casaba, but casaba is a cultivar of Cucumis melo, which is a wholly separate species, though it too has a cultivar known as "winter melon". (I'm removing the merge template) ENeville 07:05, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

I removed this article from Category:Melons (see Category talk:Melons) and from Category:Fruit because it is already in the subcategory Category:Vegetable-like fruits. — Pekinensis 13:44, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)