Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Computer science

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[edit] Software development

There's been some recent activity on the Software development article that looks to me like original research. However, I'm not all that familiar with the literature in that area. It would be helpful if other WPCS participants could weigh in on the article talk page. In particular, if you know of any references that support the definition of the term "software development" that the article is currently using, it would be great if you could add them to the article or note them on the talk page. Thanks. --Allan McInnes (talk) 23:49, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Web application development and web development could probably alos do with a look. Artw 03:45, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

From my limited knowledge, and based on articles I read a while ago from respectable sources (IEEE Computer Society or one of those many governing organizations and other various online sites), the articles explained that labeling the field in question as "software engineering" is misleading as "engineering" implies concrete laws that have been tested over time and proven; the case is that "software engineering" does not have real laws, merely techniques, and thus correctly be termed "software development," a relatively young academic field. There are debators on both sides of the fence, those who advocate "software engineering" and those for "software development".

I've heard and read that debate a number of times in several different places. It's also given a little coverage in the software engineering article. Part of the problem (IMHO) is that a lot of the people expressing opinions in that debate either don't have experience in software, or don't have experience as engineers. I've seen a number of software people make claims about what "engineering" involves, and how software "development" is different, that seem predicated on some pretty bizarre and idealized notions of what real-world engineering work actually entails (I'm speaking here as someone who has worked as an engineer in the aerospace industry and in the embedded systems industry).

Yes, many people do make many claims based on what they read and heard even though they do not have the practical experience to support their case. I believe we all have this flaw when we are not cautious. This is why I am firm on having reliable, respectable sources. —SolelyFacts

I won't argue that software engineering as currently practiced has a number of problems, and seems to get wrapped up in a lot of things that are considered outside the scope of other engineering disciplines (project management for example - even systems engineering acknowledges PM as a separate, but complementary, discipline, while some people seem to think the software engineering is project management).

That is a very frighting thought: "Some people seem to think the software engineering is project management". I'm wishfully certain people are more intelligent than this. —SolelyFacts

Software certainly presents some unique challenges (but then so does microprocessor design, or spacecraft design, or any other engineering discipline - that's what makes the different discplines... different). But I haven't yet heard anything that convinces me that software can't be engineered.

Science has its limits, but I know of no good reasons or seem any definitive evidence on why it cannot. It will be a marvel of a day when software is engineered. Just imagine all the practical benefits to society. —SolelyFacts

People like Steve McConnell and David Parnas have made the argument for software engineering far better than I can. --Allan McInnes (talk) 05:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

It's curious as to why Steve McConnell titled on of his publication "Software Development." Anyhow, you obliviously know a great deal more than me; I better get to reading. —SolelyFacts

Given that they are virtually the same concept, we should merge or simply combine information from the two article.

I suspect you'll get some strong objections from the editors involved with each article, but it might be worth proposing a merge just to see what happens. --Allan McInnes (talk) 05:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I suppose you see the fine distinction that I cannot. I don't have a strong stance on merging or combining anything (I'm no expert on the field; it was based on few yet persuasive materials I had read in past times). —SolelyFacts

"If you know of any references that support the definition of the term "software development." I have witnessed many use of the term "software development". I would not know if it was original research. It provides sources and references so I am not one to contend with it; plus one of them is from Cambridge University Press, and another from Wiley-IEEE Computer Society Press. The issue, for me, is not with the truth of the definition, as I do not doubt it; the concern is that it is a very narrow, and limited definition from apparently a business POV, and does not encompass the views of others. This particular article should have sections that express the different views across the various areas (business, academic, engineering, etc.).

The article is now much better referenced. User:Oicumayberight and I spent some time digging up various references a week or two back.

Oh, I didn't realize the initial post was more than two weeks ago. The details, the details. —SolelyFacts

I agree it does still have a bit of a business bent though. If you can offer up some more refs with alternative definitions that'd be a big help. --Allan McInnes (talk) 05:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I would be more than glad to do research on the concept of software development; it's a fascinating field. Care to recommend useful portals to begin with, which would lead to reliable sources? Some that you frequent often perhaps? I'd appreciate it. —SolelyFacts

[edit] Lawrence L. Larmore for deletion

I nominated this seemingly no-name article for deletion because it seems suspiciously auto-biographical, but I don't know much about the area he works in. If anyone here knows more about the man or his research, please feel free to comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lawrence L. Larmore. --Eliyak T·C 05:04, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Whoops, I messed up I guess. I was following the Larmore AfD debate, and I thought since it was resolved that it was over. Apparently it should still be up on the CS project page? Anyway, sorry for deleting the post. So, what do you do, wait for the original guy to delete his own comment, or what? Tparameter 07:52, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Deleting content from talk pages is generally frowned upon on Wikipedia, unless the content is offensive. --Allan McInnes (talk) 03:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

What you do is nothing. The item stays here, and the AfD page records the result of the discussion for posterity (and for the next time someone nominates it for deletion). RossPatterson 04:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[1] didn't help me make a judgement on this subject. Even if he is a bit notable, he's rather boring and dull to read, and I wouldn't keep him as a personal read. No offence, Professor Larmore. —SolelyFacts