Talk:Utah-BYU rivalry

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] Holy-War merger

I believe Holy-War should be merged into Utah-BYU rivalry as the information is redundant. Utah-BYU rivalry is more informitave and better named however, so I think we should get rid of Holy-War Epachamo 17:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree JefeDeJefes 19:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I also agree --Nate 03:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree - Kingutd 14:29, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe the reason that these articles have not yet been merged is because Holy-War is a page that fits in Category:College_football_rivalries. Since the Utah-BYU rivalry page invloves more than just the football aspect of the rivalry, it doesn't fit (I put it in that category once, but a moderator removed it). CincyUte 19:13, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I think the moderator is wrong on that one. Epachamo 22:46, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree

I agree it should be merged.

One more vote for merging. Milkncookie 21:10, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inappropriate Tone?

Lethargy, could you be more specific? What would you like to see changed here? I'll get on it if you'll let me know. JefeDeJefes 14:53, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't see your request until today. The article is full of information impossible to verify "Fans of these schools constantly argue about which has the better academics, which has the more attractive co-eds, which has a nicer campus..." (Wikipedia:No original research) and does nothing but show off the topic "Few rivalries in collegiate athletics can match the passion and intensity..." (Wikipedia:Avoid peacock terms). --Lethargy 23:15, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I've moved those notices (merge/inappropriate tone/unreferenced) to the bottom of the page. These issues have apparently become neglected. And since this page will likely be receiving an increased number of hits between now and the Utah-BYU football game this month, moving those notices to the bottom makes the page look a little more tidy. Besides, it's not uncommon for these types of notices to appear at the bottom of a page anyway. CincyUte 22:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Unreferenced can appear at the bottom, but I have never seen a merge tag or inappropriate tone placed at the bottom. --Lethargy 23:15, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I see. Thanks! CincyUte 23:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2006 Football Game Summary

Please try to keep the the article as objective as possible. I made some changes on the 2006 football game summary because it was clearly written from the pro-BYU POV. For instance, the phrase "John Beck cemented his place in cougar football history" is in appropriate because its meaning and accuracy still remains to be seen. Also (and I could be wrong about this), the phrase "The Return to Tradition" isn't a name commonly used to describe this game (such as the 1988 "Rice Bowl"), nor is it specific enough to be an unequivocal reference to that game (such as 34-31, pt. I and pt. II). Methinks Epachamo just made this phrase up. Please only include details or names possessing a neutral POV or that are commonly established. CincyUte 02:04, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

One more note: Parenthetical team records found throughout the Highlights section are the records of the teams before the referenced game began. I purposely wrote it this way so the reader would understand the standing of the teams going into the rivalry game. In my opinion, this is the best way to do it. But if anyone feels strongly about doing it different and wants to edit it, please make the changes throughout the section so as to keep the team-records pattern consistent.CincyUte 02:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't argue that I'm a bit biased towards BYU(I'm very biased in fact), however, the phrase "Return to Tradition" I did not make up and has been thrown around all over the place (even on ute blogs (see [1]). I do go to school at BYU though, and have probably heard it around here a lot more than is commonly heard (Although down south we dont refer to the 1988 game as the "Rice Bowl"). I agree with CincyUte that it might be better to wait until that name (or some other name) becomes more common for the game. --CincyUte 15:20, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

It is common knowledge that "Return to Tradition" is BYU's moto for the 2006 football season. It is not a specific reference to their game vs. Utah on Nov. 25, 2006. The "Rice Bowl" is a common and specific reference to the Y-U game in 1988. It is frequently used by both the Utah fanbase and local media in reference to that game. And now BYU fans know what game it referes to. There is a huge difference betwen "The Rice Bowl" and "Return to Tradition." I am positive that a definate nickname for the 2006 game will eventually emerge. Let's just wait to see what it will be, and not make up titles in the meantime. --CincyUte 15:20, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Once again I didn't make up the name. I agree though that waiting for a common reference is a good idea. Epachamo 18:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Saying that John Beck cemented his place in BYU's is not hyperbole nor does it remain to be seen. Even the beloved Eric Weddle stated "Beck earned a lot of respect." ([2]). The following is a whole article on how John Becks victory over Utah made him one of BYU's greats [3]. Bronco Mendenhall said even before the game, "I think it's time to acknowledge that he belongs with some of the great names at BYU." Here is an unbiased quote

"The passing game is where they (BYU) get it done. He (John Beck) has put BYU back on the map as the Quarterback Factory. This is the BYU I saw as a kid growing up." -- Chris Rix, Former Florida State Standout Quarterback and current CSTV analyst.

If you need even more convincing please read this Deseret News article[4] where it starts out stating (regarding the last play of the game) "One play, no time remaining and nothing at all on the line. Except, of course, whether he(John Beck) would go down in history as a glorified Kevin Feterik, or one of the better quarterbacks at a school famous for quarterbacks." It ends with a quote by Brandon Doman saying, "For him to have the senior year he's had makes him probably as good as any quarterback we've had in the history of BYU," Doman said. "But to beat Utah in the last game; I think it sends him into the history books as one of the great ones." I couldn't have said it better(although I don't think "John Beck cemented his place in cougar football history" is that bad a way of saying it.) If you still disagree with me I can find more references on the subject Epachamo 19:49, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Saying that "John Beck cemented his place in BYU's history" is , IMHO abstract and likely doesn't mean anything to the audience that this Wikipedia article is directed to. Didn't he technically cement his place in BYU's history when he made the roster? When he became the starting QB? When he developed a reputation early in his career for being a great QB who couldn't win the big one or who couldn't win the close ones? Having followed BYU and Utah athletics for many years, I personally do understand what you are getting at, however, you have to spell it out further. That DeseretNews article you cite is a good start. Further, you could elaborate that being "as good as any quarterback . . . in the history of BYU" is saying quite a lot and ranks him up there with many commonly known QB's in BYU's history. However, by the time you explain what the phrase "John Beck cemented his place in BYU's history" means, you will likely find that it is more appropriate for the John Beck page. I suggest you update that article with information about "cementing his place in BYU history," and then hyperlink John Beck's name on this article. --CincyUte 15:20, 29 November 2006 (UTC)