Talk:United States Congress

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Contents 1 Archives 2 Wikipedia manipulation by Congress members 3 Checking some recent edits 4 Purpose? 5 Irrelevant information 6 Above law 7 Constitutional History 8 Next? 9 Article misleading on comparisons to parliamentary democracy? 10 Comparison to parliamentary democracy 11 Function of the Senate and the House of Representatives

[edit] Archives

2004-2005 - /Archive 1

[edit] Wikipedia manipulation by Congress members

Wikipedia as the world's leading encyclopedia with more than 16 million users per month is a global player par excellence. It is de rigeur to edit Congress manipulations of Wikipedia. Reverting user will be checked for Congress affiliations by neutral admin group.Good afternoon, gentlemen.80.138.158.108 21:19, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I am neutral, merely watching this article for edits that are not encyclopedic. Yours wasn't. An encyclopedia article on the United States Congress need not contain news of a relatively minor event. It makes Wikipedia appear self-obsessed. —Cleared as filed. 21:25, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

As there is no exact quantitative limit between minor and major events, the inclusion is justified.80.138.130.146 17:15, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Sure, there's no exact quantitative limit, but this event is way under even a fuzzy limit. In the history of the United States Congress, you think a few Congressional staffers trying to change Wikipedia articles is a noteworthy event? There are other articles where this is being mentioned, and that is appropriate. —Cleared as filed. 17:19, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

As it is one important mosaic stone in an America becoming a police state according to t h e Zbigniew Brzezinsky ("technotronic era", powerful US statesman and professor), it must be included to prevent further damage from the public as it is only the top of a recent iceberg.80.138.130.146 17:21, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Huh? Who is Z. Brzezinky and why would we care about his POV in an article about the history of the U.S. Congress? If Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, how does Congressional staffers editing turn the U.S. into a police state? Things worked exactly the way they should have — other editors caught the problem and the changes were reverted. If there were some governmental power issue at stake here, the U.S. would have shut down Wikipedia for not allowing the changes to stay. As it is, there is no story here, other than an embarassing one for the Congressional members whose staffs tried to whitewash their articles. —Cleared as filed. 17:24, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Checking some recent edits

I was just on Recent Changes Vandalism Patrol and noticed some anonymous edits (by User:69.166.151.138) to this article. I reverted them as they looked like sneaky vandalism, but not being American and not knowing anything about the US Congress, I thought it prudent to check with the readers/editors of this page. The edits can be seen here. They are: "There are 105 senators, serving six-year terms. Recent additions have been made for Guam, The Phillipines and one representing the Virgin Islands." and "The House of Representatives consists of 427 members representing the fifty states." If this information is true, please revert my reversions, and accept my apologies (and please cite references if possible). Regards, Canley 02:42, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Nope — your intuition was correct. Good job and thanks! —Cleared as filed. 06:31, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Purpose?

In reading this, it is hard for a non-american to know what the purpose or role of the congress is. Could someone put in a one or two sentance summary of what it is supposed to do? eg 'it reviews proposed legislation', or 'it writes legislation' or 'it approves budgets'.

There are actually well-educated people who aren't quite sure what purpose Congress serves. But in all seriousness, such a paragraph would probably be useful to include. It would have to be fairly generic as, especially in recent weeks, the purpose of congress and how that relates to the purpose of the other branches has become a more controversial subject. sebmol 04:18, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Irrelevant information

The "Checks and balances" section seems to be a little irrelevant in parts to the congress. The article is called 'United States Congress' so it seems like it should talk about the congress, not the other branches. A lot of the things in that section should maybe be revised or moved to the Checks and Balances article. Marcus 01:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Above law

Where do i put this in? --Striver 16:50, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Constitutional History

Would it not be appropriate to add information referencing the 17th Amendment? That amendment fundamentally changed the nature of Congress. I could do some research and put a tidbit in by the night's end. Mustang 03:07, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Never mind, I see it is in there. However, it seems a little POV to me. There were negative side effects of the amendment like the fact that the state legislatures were no longer represented in the federal government, and senators now had to please voters, leading in part to a dramatic increase in governmental spending this century. Mustang 03:10, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm...that statement seems POV to me. There were real problems that can be verified, and the amendment was verifiably put forth as a solution. What other effects it may have had, unless put forth in some reliable, reasonably neutral publication, are WP:NOT. Robert A.West (Talk) 20:57, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Next?

Here is some guy that belives there is a posibility of Pearl Harbor 3 being directed against the senate. links: [1], [2], [3]. I dont agree with everyting that he said, and he doesnt have any evidence, but i thought it was intresting. --Striver 20:07, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Here is some guy that believes Kang and Kodos are controlling congress [localhost]. I don't agree with everything he said, and he has no evidence, but I thought it was funny.

Seriously, what's the point? --Mmx1 01:08, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article misleading on comparisons to parliamentary democracy?

I'm not sure but potentially the article is partially misleading on comparisons to parliametry democracy. It appaears to be partially confusing the difference between a federation and other styles of government. In federations, there tends to be a state based representation regardless of population in the upper house. For example in the Australian senate and Dewan Negara in Malaysia (which was partially modelled after the US anyway AFAIK). Even in India, the Rajya Sabha is not solely based on population I believe. The upper house in some federations such as Australia (and possibly India but not Malaysia or Canada) also tend to be have a much higher level of power/equality as in the US. The biggest difference is probably related to (as the article mentions) the fact that the lower house is the one which decides the Prime Minister and cabinet. Therefore, there is a direct connection between the PM & Cabinet and the lower house and so these tend to dominate, unlike in the US where the President & cabinet is seperate from the lower house/House who therefore tend to act indepedently of the President and therefore this effectively means the senate is allowed to have a greater say. Also, out of tradition, even though the upper house may have nearly equal powers in some federal parliaments countries in many areas, they don't tend to utilise that power. (E.g. even though they may be able to make laws and block laws, they rarely do it.) Nil Einne 11:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comparison to parliamentary democracy

The final comment in this section reflects a concern that a freshman may be able to "bring him the bucks" [sic]. Is this quoted correctly?? It doesn't sound grammatical, even by American standards! Should it be "bring home the bucks"? Or "bring in the bucks"?? Or something else??? Mooncow 12:28, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I was about to make a change when I found this discussion topic. I think the correct quote is "Bring home the bacon."; a reference to the Pork Barrel politics. I could be wrong. But someone should check on this and correct the quote because "bring him the bucks" [sic] doesn't make any sense. 20:14 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Is it really an advantage that the Senate gives small states equal representation and power with large states? This sounds like POV to me, as a strong argument can be made that this is really unequal representation giving small states disproportionate power relative to their populations. Esorlem 15:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Function of the Senate and the House of Representatives

Could anyone provide a little info. on what's the functions of the Senate as contrasted with the House of Representative?

I read a line on the page of United States House of Representatives: "The bicameral Congress arose from the desire of the Founders to create a "house of the people" that would represent public opinion, balanced by a more deliberative Senate that would represent the governments of the individual states"

Could anyone explain the nature of "house of people" of the House of Representative and the nature of "represent governments of the individual states" of the Senate? Are the electorates of the House of Representatives are politicians? while those of the Senate are govt. officials?

Both house contain politicians, not government officials. Unlike in parlimentary systems, government ministers are not current members of congress so in nearly all cases their position in Congress is the only government position held (at the time) by members. In fact, it is forbidden to hold office in Congress and elsewhere in the federal government at the same time. (It is however allowed, but very rare, to have a position in the state or local government at the same time).

The original mechanism for electing senators called for them to be chosen by the state legislature in their state. This has since been amended to require popular election. The originally difference, along with the 2 year terms for the house vs 6 years in the senate, and the smaller election districts in the house, has let to the house being considered the "house of the people".

kenj0418 15:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Finally, can someone tell me what is the functions and the difference of functions between the Senate and the House of Representatives?

In most areas they perform the same function. All laws must be approved by both branches. There are a few specific types of legislative action that are different between the branches. Additionally, there are some traditional differences in the rules and norms between the house and senate. Some differences:

• All tax legislation must begin in the house
• During impeachment, impeachment occurs in the house, with the trial over removal from office occurs in the senate.
• High-level government appoinments require the advice and consent of the senate
• Treaties require the advice and consent of the senate
• Requirements for office differ (House: 25 years old, citizen for 7 years) (Senate: 30 years old, citizen for 9 years)
• Senate rules allow for unlimited debate on an issue unless 60 (of 100) members agree to limit debate. This can lead to Filibusters where a minority of members can block approval of a measure they oppose. The house generally has much tighter control on the length of debate for a measure.

kenj0418 15:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Your generous help will be much appreciated.scarlett_tong 12:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)