Talk:Ultimate Fighting Championship

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is part of WikiProject Mixed martial arts, an attempt to better organise and unify articles relating to mixed martial arts concepts, events, and biographies. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.

	This page is part of the Wikipedia Martial Arts Project. Please help ensure that it follows those guidelines as much as is reasonable; if you do not agree with those guidelines, please help us improve them!	Chinese Manual of Style - Naming conventions Indic Manual of Style - Naming conventions Japanese Manual of Style Korean Manual of Style - Naming conventions
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.

This article has been nominated for the mixed martial arts article improvement drive collaboration! Please review this page's entry and voice your opinion.

If you are a fan of UFC, you can add this userbox, {{User UFC fan}}, on your userpage:

UFC "Are you ready? Let's get it on!"

Contents 1 Fouling 2 Randy 3 Recent News and Events 4 Events 5 'MMA' 6 "Notable" fighters 7 Ultimate Fighting Championship for Women 8 Merge from Art Davie & Rorion Gracie - WOW Promotions 9 Belt History 10 10 point must system 11 Elbow foul 12 The "Dark Ages" of the UFC... 13 !!!!!!!!!!! 14 Obvious error 15 Weight in kilos? 16 ? 17 Possible UFC fights section...? 18 Events section 19 Bas Rutten - notable UFC fighter? 20 The Ultimate Fighter season 2 fights weren't exhibition

[edit] Fouling

I was wondering if a more experienced UFC fan would know if the prohibition of cage grabbing is limited to the hands, I've seen fighters in Season 3 post on the cage with their feet. (Not sure witch fights, sorry) Glasgallow 02:39, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Check out http://boxing.nv.gov/docs/MMA%20RULES%20Expained.pdf, it's NSAC's expansion into what the list of fouls entails. For cage grabbing, it's a foul "When a fighters fingers go through the cage and grab hold of the fence and start to control either their body position or their opponents body position". Palming and pushing off the fence is ok. Toes should not be a concern since toes (presumably) are not long enough or strong enough to cause that kind of foul. hateless 01:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Randy

I added Randy to the hall of famers (He just got inducted a few minutes ago) I wasn't sure if there was a UFC designation number for the Season 3 Finals, so I just put "Season 3 Finals". Glasgallow 02:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent News and Events

This section just doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Ignoring the POV issues, it's like a whiteboard of a section, designed to be wiped clean each month, which doesn't seem suiting an encyclopedia entry. Info in this section seems too insignificant to be moved to a history section of the UFC, and it seems just too much of an advertisement for future UFC events. Information about each UFC event seems like it should belong on individual UFC event articles. I'm been tempted to just remove it and ask people to just create UFC 58 and UFC 59 articles instead, although I'll resist and ask for the opinion of the consensus. hateless 08:00, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

i strongly agree--the section will be unwieldy and it's already hard enough to keep POV and OR out of MMA pages, encouraging fans to post minutiae is hardly the way to go IMO. i approve of your uFC 57 article and concur that we should continue down that road. Burgher 09:13, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, this kind of thing belongs in news sites or blogs, not here. SubSeven 02:03, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Events

Trench 21:33, 10 January 2006 (UTC) --- Now the list of events is complete, it need it's own seperate page, like the List of UFC champions.

Then again, there is already a brief list of events on the List of UFC champions, so perhaps it could be merged with that? Slideyfoot 08:44, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Trench 21:16, 15 January 2006 (UTC) --- I've only read your comment after relocating the page, whoops. But I think the two lists can be kept seperate, as the one on the UFC champions page only lists events that were held in the tournament format, it's just a list of tournament winners.

I've started an article for UFC 57, with the idea that others will start creating articles for other UFC events. If pro-wrestling events get their own articles, why not UFC events? If I can have fellow editors look at and edit the UFC 57 article, I'm hoping the effort gets underway. hateless 08:00, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 'MMA'

The article first uses the term "MMA" without having first explained it.

[edit] "Notable" fighters

• This list seems POV to me. Maybe we should just list the current champions? --Malathion 28 June 2005 04:57 (UTC)
  • I was considering that idea myself, but the problem is determining who's a current fighter when the roster is as big as it is. Also, many fighters fight in multiple events other than the UFC. So again, what is the cut off and who would be considered on that list? However, since the list mostly covers champions current and former and notable finalists (like Tank Abbott) I don't see too much of a problem with it as it stands. --Kingmob 28 June 2005 17:02 (UTC)

I don't see what the problem is. (I assume you are talking about the "notable UFC fighters" list). The fact that it's a 'notables' list makes it pretty much able to include anyone who has or will fight in a UFC. Malathion, what is exactly POV about the list? --Duffman 2 Jul 2005 2:53 AM (EST)

[edit] Ultimate Fighting Championship for Women

The Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous has the following question and answers.

iam sure you have heard of the ulitimate fighting championships what i would like to know is are there any ulitimate fighting championships for women.

Looking over Ultimate Fighting Championship it appears there is not. You may ask this question on Talk:Ultimate Fighting Championship and see if you get a response. --Quasipalm 20:33, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

This site claims that REMIX Women's World Fighting Championship is equivalent.[1] As yet, we do not have an article on that event. I will place a message on the talk page of the Ultimate Fighting Championships to check that it is. Capitalistroadster 02:47, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Are the claims of the promoters correct in that these championships are the equivalent? Are the REMIX Women's World Fighting Championships notable enough for an article and should they be added to the Requested Articles? Is there important additional information we can provide to answer the original question? I would be grateful if you could provide additional answers to the question on the Miscellanous Reference Desk page listed in the first paragraph. Capitalistroadster 02:54, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware, the closest that women currently have to the UFC is the Hook N Shoot organisation, which in 2002 staged Hook N Shoot - Revolution. This touted itself as the first sanctioned all-female MMA event, and was followed up with a second event in 2004, Hook N Shoot - Evolution, and more recently, the first ever 8 woman tournament, 2005 Women's Grand Prix. However, these are all predated by the aforementioned Remix World Cup, a Japanese event which was staged in 2000. I think I'm right in saying I'm the main wikipedian posting on women's MMA at the moment, but I have to admit I've not got hold of any of these events on DVD yet, so it would be useful if someone who had could write something up about them. Otherwise I probably will, but that would be relying on interviews and news reports rather than an 'eye witness' (or whatever you'd call someone who watched the DVD) account. At least until I get my hands on the DVDs. Slideyfoot 09:05, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge from Art Davie & Rorion Gracie - WOW Promotions

WOW Promotions is too insignificant to merit its own article, its entire history is connected with the UFC in some way. Better to just merge this section into the History section of the UFC article. hateless 18:22, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

While WOW Promotions did not have a business mission other than the UFC, it created the event and it had its own history, given the difficulty of establishing this type of event in 1993. User: Former UFC Commissioner 17:41, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

It should be merged into the UFC article since the content is currently small. If the article expands, it may merit it's own article. --Marcus 04:05, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I didn't see where the Merge suggestion templates were ever added to these articles, so I went ahead and put them in. That flags them for discussion as a possible merge. (If I missed these flags being in before, my appologies, but I didn't spot it in the history.) Personally I agree that currently it looks like the article about WOW Productions seems very redundant with the UFC article, because the UFC is the only product that WOW ever produced. If WOW had ever produced something other than the UFC, I'd be for having a seperate article, but as-is it looks like most of the information is already present or can be inserted into the main UFC article. Just my opinion. Dugwiki 20:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

FYI, although it's not mentioned in this discussion, it looks like Former UFC Commissioner removed the merge tags. I reread the Art Davie & Rorion Gracie - WOW Promotions article and it looks like the info there has been edited to just information about that company and doesn't look redundant now to the UFC article. Therefore my vote is now with the Commish that a merger at this point isn't necessary since the articles cover slightly different topics (one a television production company, the other a fighting promotion.) Dugwiki 15:17, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Belt History

I added the data for the history of the UFC belts. I will leave it up for more frequent wikipedia posters to clean it up and put it in better wikipedia format. --Whispering Death 20:15, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

George St.Pierre won belt november 19 even though the event was on the november 18. It happened after midnight.

[edit] 10 point must system

Let me establish this since it looks like there's a brewing edit war over this point: Yes, 10-10 rounds are permissible under the 10-point must system. If I can quote NJ's Unified rules on MMA:

13:46-24A.13 Judging (b) The 10-Point Must System will be the standard system of scoring a bout. Under the 10-Point Must Scoring System, 10 points must be awarded to the winner of the round and nine points or less must be awarded to the loser, except for a rare even round, which is scored (10-10).

Also, you cannot explain a 29-29 scorecard for Bonnar vs Evans on the UFC Ultimate Fight Night 5 without there being a 10-10 round. hateless 23:17, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Elbow foul

I'm not an expert in this sport at all, but I was just watching UFC 61 and there were downward elbow blows all over the place when the fighters were grappling on the ground. According to the article those are considered fouls by the NSAC (UFC 61 took place in Las Vegas), which seems incorrect to me. --Bk0 (Talk) 01:02, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Downward elbow strikes are tricky, but they are defined specifically as those at the "12 o'clock position" to the "6 o'clock" position. Downward strikes at an angle (say, 11 to 5, or 1 to 7) are ok. See Big John McCarthy's explanation on this interview[2] or NSAC's rule expansion here.[3] Actually, as an aside, the one point that bothers me the most about NSAC rules is that they don't define KOs as a method of victory, only TKOs, yet their results pages lists fights ending in KOs. hateless 05:18, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The "Dark Ages" of the UFC...

As a fan at the time, it was common knowledge that UFC's 23-29 were never released on home video in the US in any form. I don't know how we could get a reference to this, other than 1-22 and 30+ vhs tapes exist on ebay, and on certian web stores with "out of stock" under them (for example, [4] ) but nothing for UFC 23-29.

Also, forums like Sherdog.com have posts about the UFC's unreleased events, such as: [5] One poster even calls them the "dark ages" as well, tho I don't think that is a universal term... I will try to search for a Dana White interview or somthing that mentiones the non released events. Skeletor2112 04:37, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] !!!!!!!!!!!

ok, even though im pro Anti-UFC and so i dont care on contributions, but id have to ask cuz it says that UFC 23 to UFC 29 were never released on DVD but what is this? it seems that UFC 25 does have a DVD video; whats goin on??? T00C00L 04:58, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

If you click on the picture and check out the larger image, you can clearly see japanese on the cover. The DVDs apparently were released only in Japan. The language on UFC 23-29 and on this page should reflect that or make that clearer if it hasn't already tho. hateless 15:47, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Only UFC 25 (Ultimate Japan 3) was released in Japan, the rest of 23-29 were not. As far as I know, some were released in the UK as well, where different companies own the rights. Skeletor2112 04:33, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

well, im sure there were posters for those 'lost' events, u oughta at least post those on the UFC event articles!!! all the wrestling event articles feature posters, not DVD or VHS covers!!! --T00C00L 04:58, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

---

[edit] Obvious error

"In 2000, Davie proposed an eight-man, single-elimination tournament with a working title of War of the Worlds to Rorion Gracie and John Milius. The tournament would feature martial artists from different disciplines facing each other in no holds barred combat. Milius, a noted film director and screenwriter, as well as a Gracie student, agreed to be the event's creative director. Davie drafted the business plan and twenty-eight investors contributed the initial capital to start WOW Promotions with the intent to develop the tournament into a television franchise.[2]"

Clearly the year 2000 is false.

--69.175.88.28 08:45, 29 October 2006 (UTC) Looks like this has been corrected by someone in recent weeks. --69.175.88.28 08:45, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Weight in kilos?

wouldnt it be goog to have the weight catagories in kilos also?

That's what I figured, too, though I didn't read that section of the article. I put SI units in for the section where I actually wondered what the numbers meant.

You can Google for stuff like "6 feet 9 inches in cm" and put the answers in if you feel like it. I just do it whenever I've done the conversion anyway; without an official policy (unlikely with WP hosted in USA, I think), there is no point or mandate to go on a WP-wide changing spree ;)

Zuiram 22:26, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ?

it would be nice to mention how many people attended UFC Brazil and UFC david vs goliath on their articles, or atleast could you post it here?

[edit] Possible UFC fights section...?

--69.175.88.28 08:59, 29 October 2006 (UTC) I just wanted to ask what the source is for the Possible UFC Fights section. Are these fights like "fantasy fights" that people would really like to see, or is it supposed to be a listing of fights that have a decent chance of happening in the future?

I ask because if it's the latter, it's not completely accurate. Just off the top of my head from my daily reading of sites like MMAWeekly.com, Sherdog.com, and other dedicated MMA web sites, I can tell you that several of those fights are very unlikely to happen, so I'm wondering where the info came from.

Just going down the list...

Jens Pulver vs BJ Penn[2nd fight]: Could happen eventually, but there are no imminent plans for it right now, Penn is currently in the 170-pound weight class and has not fought in Pulver's weight class for a few years

Bas Rutten vs Kimo Leopoldo: Will never happen in the UFC, Zuffa said outright when Kimo failed a drug test for the second time (once in 2004, once in 2006) that they would never use him again to send a message to other alleged steroid users... as for Bas Rutten, he may or may not ever fight again after surgery to repair his torn ACL in mid-2006, and if he does, he is under contract for the WFA

Sean Sherk vs Jens Pulver[lightweight championship]: This likely would have happened if Pulver had won his UFC return bout as expected, but instead he got knocked out by Joe Lauzon, so now Pulver is a long way from getting a title shot and when/if he ever does, it would presumably be a long time from now and there's no telling if Sherk would still be the champ by then

David Abbott vs Ken Shamrock: Will never happen in the UFC, Shamrock officially retired from the Octagon on October 10th, and the UFC had already said prior to that point that they weren't going to be using Tank Abbott anymore since he lost three in a row a few years back

Chuck Liddell vs Wanderlei Silva[lightheavyweight championship]: Now this fight certainly COULD happen, but as of now both sides (Zuffa and DSE) will tell you that the fight is off because negotiations between the two sides completely broke down in August, still it's a fight that a lot of people want to see and it could very well still happen

Jon Fitch vs Diego Sanchez: This could happen at some point as they are both rising stars in the welterweight division, but there are no imminent plans for the fight to happen. In fact, Sanchez's next opponent is already set, and it's not Jon Fitch, his next opponent is Joe Riggs on December 13th.

Matt Hughes vs BJ Penn[3rd fight]: This could happen eventually, but that depends on a lot of "if"s. If Hughes remains the Welterweight Champion... if Hughes doesn't go up to 185 to fight Anderson Silva as he has talked about doing... if Penn wins several fights in a row to earn another Welterweight Title shot... there are a lot of "if"s, and as of now there are no imminent plans for Hughes-Penn III to happen anytime soon.

Tito Ortiz vs Quinton Jackson: Do you mean Chuck Liddell vs. Quinton Jacksons? Because if you meant Liddell vs. Jackson, that fight could potentially happen in 2007 after Quinton fulfills the remaining fights on his exclusive WFA contract, and if Chuck retains his title against Tito on December 30th. But Ortiz vs. Jackson is not a fight that has been talked about, proposed, or discussed, mainly because the two of them are very good friends and have said in the past that they would never fight each other.

Don Frye vs Dan Severn: Neither of these fighters has competed in the UFC in years and I have not heard or read anywhere in recent years suggesting that either of them might be on their way back to the UFC. Frye still fights periodically for Heroes in Japan while Severn recently had his MMA fighters license denied by the California commision. This would have been a great fight in the early UFC days, but there is almost zero chance of it ever happening at this point.--69.175.88.28 08:59, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

• The section has been cut and rightly so, as it has no place on Wikipedia. This isn't the Sherdog forum -- Crazyknight 14:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Events section

I'm removing this section because it only consists of one link and will never consist of anything more. WP tend to link forks from the See Also section, which is where the link is now. hateless 22:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bas Rutten - notable UFC fighter?

I don't want this to descend into an edit war but does Bas Rutten count as a notable UFC fighter? I will stop reverting it if there is a consensus but I feel he is notable. He was in a few of the UFC video games, he was UFC heavyweight champion and he was well-known, despite his relatively few fights. Any opinions because the anonymous user who keeps changing it has moved on to editing pages I've spent a lot of time on and it is annoying me. -- Crazyknight 18:46, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Yea, I'd say Rutten is a notable UFC fighter - as you said he was champion, and a popular and well known one at that. Any former UFC champion is a notbale UFC fighter, IMO. And the anonymous user reverting that stuff again and again is "TooCool" (also T00C00L) who was blocked a while ago, but is now back to his old ways... :/ Skeletor2112 09:55, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Ultimate Fighter season 2 fights weren't exhibition

They were actual pro fights. They count on the fighters record. This board seems to list Sherdog alot, but FCFighter is the more accurate fighter database. All of the fights during season 2 counted on their pro record. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.244.188.168 (talk) 22:26, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

By law, results of sanctioned pro fights in Nevada are posted publically by the NSAC on their website immediately (1-2 business days, which is considered immediate for a govt. agency) after they occur, and they weren't for season 2. They were instead posted after the series finale. FCFighter's databse includes amateur fights as well, so just because those fights show up on their database doesn't mean they are considered pro bouts. Fights for the Finales are not exhibitions however, and they do get counted, you may have been confused by that. As for the UFC, they don't count TUF exhibition matches in a fighter's UFC record (for instance, see Melvin Guillard's profile). hateless 23:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)