Talk:Ithaca
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[edit] Measurement unit
Hey, thie article says Ithaca is "95 square km around." That, um, doesn't amke much sense; it's like saying something weighs 50 degrees Fahrenheit. Someone should get on that. --Fishal 20:23, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- Some quick research confirmed the area is really 95-96 km², [[User:Sverdrup|❝Sverdrup❞]] 07:57, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
[edit] "Symbolicated" Ithaca
I was told by <a href="http://www.brandeis.edu/departments/classics/Faculty/muellner.html">Leonard Muellner at Brandeis University</a> when I was a student there (around 2000) that the Ithaca of the Iliad and the Odyssey is not a real place, and that Odysseus is supposed to symbolically come from all of Greece, not one specific, actual location. He claimed that the identification of a modern locale as "Ithaca" is a later invention. Has anyone else heard this story?
it seems that the professor didn't have a clue, archaiological escavations have prove that most of the persons were real including Odysseus
[edit] Etymology of Ithaca
I think that the word 'Ithace" is derived by the name of Aethices, a people lived in Middle Greece.
--IonnKorr 20:00, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] "Sunset views"
Makote@aol.com: Your section just added to the article about "sunset views" belongs here in discussion, I believe: you make an interesting point and it deserves debate, but I think your posting is a "discussion" point instead, so would you please remove it from the article so that we may discuss it here? You said:
- "One of the main points of the book attempts to suggest that Ithaki has no sunset views. What is left out is that the northern part of Ithaki has a much higher elevation than Kefalonia and comforms to the Homeric description as it overlooks the Palaki section and does indeed have a western view. As for low lying, this is a comparitive since the Ionian chain is a group of mountainous islands and Ithaki is in fact the "lowest" of the Ionians. Outis Ziyapanda - King of Ithaki : makote@aol.com"
The book by Bittlestone et al. goes into some detail about the exact meaning of the Homeric text. There is more to it, I believe, than simply the suggestion "that Ithaki has no sunset views". Professor Diggle devotes his entire Appendix 1, there, to a multi-faceted explanation of how he arrived at the particular translations and interpretations which they used: for example on page 520 he renders the most famous Homeric line about Ithaca's location as, in English,
- "Ithaca itself lies low, furthest to sea
- Towards dusk; the rest, apart, face dawn and sun."
-- and Diggle explains, "the directions 'towards dusk... dawn and sun' refer to west and east". And Homer says Ithaca is "furthest to sea", of the various islands there.
The point being made, then, by Diggle and by the Odysseus Unbound team and by Homer, is not "that Ithaki has no sunset views" -- nearly any island does, just as you suggest -- but that, compared to the others including modern Ithaki island, the Paliki peninsula of Kefalonia is located furthest west.
On that same page Diggle offers an explanation for "low-lying", as well: that the Greek term chthamale means "near the ground", in Homer: he offers several examples of this usage, taken from both the Iliad and the Odyssey. Homer does compare his "Ithaca" to the rest of Ionia, in saying "Ithaca itself lies low": but the comparison is of the Paliki peninsula, to the rest of Ionia, not of Kefalonia as a whole -- modern Kefalonia certainly is not the "lowest-lying", compared to modern Ithaki -- but Paliki alone, in the time of Homer and Odysseus separated from Kefalonia by "Strabo's Passage", would have been.
--Kessler 20:14, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Requested move
PageName → NewName – The current Ithaca page is a redirect to the US suburb, but is linked to only in the context of the island. Ithaca, Greece double-redirects to Ithaca, New York, for example. Aside from the obvious literary points, the Greek Ithaca is a whole geographical formation.
[edit] Survey
- Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
- Support. The Odyssey isn't even the only reference to this. ' (Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!) 21:01, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
- Oppose I would prefer this article to be at Ithaca, Greece; leaving Ithaca, for now, as a redirect here, and eventually a separate, and hopefully less argumentative, article on the Homeric question. Was it Lang who supported Corfu? Septentrionalis 23:30, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
- Oppose. While most of the current links to Ithaca are for the one in Greece, that is likely the result of everyone else dabing the link correctly over time or someone not doing this work after changing the redirect. The solution here is, as suggested above, to move Ithaca (Odyssey) to Ithaca, Greece and move Ithaca (disambiguation) to Ithaca. Vegaswikian 00:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
- Suport. However, I moved the article to Ithaca (island) for the time being. The association with Odysseus is important but not the most prominent characteristic of the island. Also, imho in most cases the title should refer to the original place with this name, such as London etc. Andreas (T) 16:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Oppose. I suggest it being 'Ithaca, Greece' , with 'Ithaca' then disambiguating to the various meanings (the actual island, the Homeric island, New York, the various other towns called 'Ithaca', etc). Notwithstanding my opposition, it certainly shouldn't be 'Ithaca, Odyssey' . Bastin 17:19, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Oppose. Shouldn't this proposal be closed by now? I agree that the best title is Ithaca, Greece. I'm trying to make the Homeric stuff a bit more encyclopedic, but there is a more extensive article at Homer's Ithaca, with an even more specialized article at Odysseus Unbound. Whatever this article about Ithaca ends up being called, it needs more non-Homeric information... --Akhilleus (talk) 04:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Discussion
- Add any additional comments
- No consensus, besides that, Itheca is used for various names, so I think that page better should become an disambig page. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 02:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Ithaca, NY
Ithaca is also known place in USA, NY. Cornell University is located there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca%2C_New_York
[edit] Ithaca: Cadiz
Homer describes Ithaca as "amphialos" which means: "with a sea on each side"; A perfect description for a place between the Mediterranean and the Atlantic.
Also, the situation described by Homer perfectly matches with how this region was 3200 years ago: the Guadalete delta not yet turned into land and Ithaca being the most westerly situated island but yet closest to the mainland. You can find a map on page 137 of Iman Wilkens latest book; the 2005 edition.
Furthermore, there are other places in the region that sound Homeric: Gerena (pronounced Gerenia) (Nestor!) Pylos, now Pilas, Sparta, now Esparteros mountain, Sidon, now Medina Sidonia.
212.123.163.102 07:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
