Talk:Iron Man

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[edit] Vietnam reference

Isn't the reference to Vietnam a retcon, put in place IIRC by John Byrne in the late 1980s? Luis Dantas

It was pretty obvious it was Vietnam in the original story, but to be honest I can't recall without access to my issues at the moment if it was named or just an unnamed South East Asian country. David Michelinie was the one who made it explicit in the 70s, I believe. If someone can confirm it and fix it, that'd be great. --khaosworks 19:15, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

From what little I can gather, it was unnamed. I've fixed it in the main text. --khaosworks 19:25, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Ick. A troll of USENET now shows that yes, it was named Vietnam. Reverted. --khaosworks 19:34, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Armors

I think, of all the Marvel characters, Iron Man has the most number of costumes (or in this case, armors). The funny thing is, Iron Man's Wiki page has not a list of them at least. Wolverine has a list of all the costumes he's had. Why can't Iron Man have his? --Windspinner 09:06, 5 September 2005 (UTC)windspinner

There's a couple of external links to sites which list the various armors. I mean, Tony changes armors like he changes underwear, and I'm uncertain of the encyclopedic value of listing every armor he's ever had. If you feel energetic enough, you might want to create a daughter article just for the armors (as to put it in the main article would probably make it way too long). Personally, I feel that a listing of that nature is way too trivial (and I don't like it in Wolverine either), but hey, knock yourself out. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 09:18, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right, it might seem too trivial. Well, I was just thinking that those armors were part of Iron Man's history, and putting them on this page would make it a more interesting article, but I guess I might have thought wrong as some just-curious-who-Iron-Man-is readers might find it uninteresting and tiresome. Hey, how about we just place here Tony's women? Nah, just kidding. --Windspinner 23:48, 5 September 2005 (UTC)windspinner

I don't think so. IM(NS)HO, it may reflect changes in attitude (in Logan, anyhow), & in IM, there's room for comment on "fadishness" (or "fannishness") of the suits: recall, there were shrieks of protest when artists first del the mask's nose... In the main article, N, but... Trekphiler 17:37, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps a comprimise could be made as to list important changes in his armor. The first being grey, his upgrade being gold (thus the nickname the Golden Avenger), the nose and flack involved, the Stealth armor, Hulkbuster, the new nano-armor. This display important turning points and highlight function rather than simply form (well, all but the nose). --RedKnight 17:36, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd not mind working on an "Armors of Iron Man" page. I mean, Captain America's shield and Mjolnir, the Hammer of Thor have their own pages, so why not one for Tony's suits? Dr Archeville 14:27, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Actors

I don't think anyone official has made reference to Matt Dillon being attached to the Iron Man movie. No actors have been discussed publically, whoever put Matt Dillon is probably just a fan, but I won't go delete it myself if there's something I don't konw.

Latest news releases place Robert Downey, jr in the role of Tony Stark.--RedKnight 17:03, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that's already in the article. CovenantD 01:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

Maybe it's me, but, every app he's made outside IM? And who decided which stories were "important"? What happened to the assassination of the ambassador? The first alky story? Revealling his ID to Michael O'Brien? Beth telling him she knew? Or Kraken?! This reads like a MU entry, very biased toward the contemporary IM: N mention Whitney Frost (!) or Mandarin (!), nor Yellow Claw, Midas, the Melter... Hey, I was a sometime fan, so I'm N in a pos to write it, but it sure needs some rewrite. IMHO, the article should be an examination of IM's history & his significance as a character within the MU, N a glorified MU entry for potential readers if IM... Trekphiler 17:49, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

To try and address some of the concerns: The assassination of the Carnellian ambassador is actually in the entry, just before we talk about Stane. The Mandarin is also there; Yellow Claw, Midas, the Melter are all minor, and Yellow Claw wasn't really even an Iron Man villain anyway, just a drag-in from the Timely days to address the similarities between him and the Mandarin. I've read Iron Man over the last nearly thirty years or so and while it's obviously just my take on it, the stories mentioned are the major ones that people actually remember and go on about, not small things like Bethany telling Stark she knew the worst-kept secret identity in comics-dom. You'll notice there isn't a mention of Janice Cord either (though there arguable should be).

Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying you don't have a point about the content being more about the "modern Iron Man", but recent development generally hold stronger weight in the mind's eye. I do agree that there should be a bit more about Stark's place in the MU as the technologist and businessman (and to a degree that's also mentioned), and probably a bit about the aforementioned worst-kept secret identity, and unless someone else does, I'll think on that over the next few days, but not everything needs to be in, IMO. Thanks for the suggestions, in any case. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 22:44, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I pruned the following links per my understanding of WP:EL and to avoid the Spam Event Horizon.

There seem to be several authoritative links without needing to go into aol member pages and geocities pages, and the themes appear to me to be problematic re copyright. - Just zis Guy, you know? ^[T]/_[C] AfD? 17:25, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Iron Man movie rights have been reverted back to Marvel.

So the "current" information detailing an Iron Man movie is unfortunately out of date. There is no definite plans or release schedule for an Iron Man movie.

There are currently plans for an Iron Man movie to be released in 2008. I have added a link to the See Also section. Aericanwizard 20:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mega Morphs

I'm pretty sure that the Mega Morphs comic series isn't canon. 24.62.27.66 01:46, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

It was mentioned, and flatly denied by Stark, in the Civil War edition of the Daily Bugle (published by Marvel but with articles set within the Marvel Universe). That implies to me that MegaMorphs IS canon, but officially covered up by Stark and his government allies (not to mention the fact that Wolverine would never admit to having been part of it). - Kevingarcia 08:35, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Publication History

"After the final issue, #99 (March 1968), after which the book became Captain America, Iron Man appeared in the one-shot Iron Man and Sub-Mariner #1 (April 1968), before debuting in his own title with The Invincible Iron Man #1 (May 1968)."

I have researched this statement and it is accurate except for the title of Iron Man's first comic of 1968. Although the cover of the comic lists 'The Invicible Iron Man' the actual publication title is simply 'Iron Man' as displayed in the indicia within the comic. There has actually been no Iron Man series titled The Invicible Iron Man.

I had attempted to correct this on the main page (by simply placing 'The Invisible' within brackets so as to not change the actual text) but this has been changed back since then.

In the interest of accuracy this should be corrected. --RedKnight 23:50, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm all for just plain Iron Man if the consensus is not to use longer cover title, The Invincible Iron Man. The Unofficial Handbook of Marvel Comics Creators uses the cover title, while the equally authoritative Grand Comics Database uses the indicia title. Six'a one, half dozen'a of the other. Just please not parentheses or brackets that aren't in either! :-) --Tenebrae 04:17, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Best place to start?

Whats the best issue to start reading Iron Man?I dont mean just one important issue, I mean one important and good. Thanks for help!

[edit] Origin Story?

I'm trying to figure this out.

According to this entry (and other sources I've read) Tony Stark created the original armor in Vietnam (In Tales of Suspense 39). For some reason I was always under the impression that this story took place during the Korean War.

This makes more sense to me, as the US didn't enter Vietnam till 1965, and Tales of Suspense 39 was published in 1963.

Does anyone know for sure if this was mentioned in the comic at all? Or have they just ret-conned the whole thing to Vietnam anyway to make Tony Stark seem younger? --Spectre General 02:40, 10 May 2006

The US did not commit combat troops in Vietnam until 1965, but the US had began sending military advisors to train the South Vietnamese as far back as 1955, and in fact, that's when the Vietnam Veterans Memorial starts recording the start of US military involvement. The original TOS story explicitly - and specifically - states that the country is Vietnam. The war in Korea ended in 1953. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 06:58, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Well there you go. Thanks alot! --Spectre General 02:40, 10 May 2006

[edit] Ultimate Iron Man

The reason for my deletion was that the edits constitute conclusions ("This is his motivation for his many acts of "philanthropy"; "this version of Stark is also written with...") and speculation ("as well as possibly his motivation for becoming a superhero)", both of which are disallowed as [[Wikipedia:No_original_research|original research].

What would work is to quote one of the writers or a character in comics him/herself, e.g., "Joe Smith, who wrote Iron Man in the early 1990s said in (cite interview source here) that such-and-such provided the motivation for Stark's philanthropy and heroics," or "Joe Smith, author of Ultimate Avengers said in (cite interview source here) that he envisioned this alternate-universe version as more of a such-and-such than his mainstream-continuity counterpart". -- Tenebrae 13:54, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

My point, however, is that this isn't OR. I know the difference - this is stuff directly from the source material. Stark said that the tumor was the reason he became a superhero; this isn't my deduction. Stark acts like more of a thrillseeking playboy than his Earth-616 counterpart, again which is evident in the comic, not my conclusions. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 15:10, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The citation from the comic, where Stark himself states it, is exactly spot-on. That's exactly the way, and thank you for taking the time to look it up and put it in.

The other thing, about the thrill-seeking playboy, really does remain conclusion, though. For example, I would argue that they're both thrill-seeking playboys. Stark's been a race-car driving, etc., he's considered a playboy in the main-continuity media, etc. It's interpretation in either case, and that's why Wiki disallows conclusion and says to stick to the concrete stuff. -- Tenebrae 15:36, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm a fan of Ultimate Iron Man, and have read most of the issues he appears in. I added information to the section (why didn't anybody mention unbearable pain, or his healing factor?) The fact his name is Antonio rather than Anthony is rather important. Or at least noteworthy. Going from Caucasian to Hispanic is a big change. All that information is omni-present in the Ultimate Iron Man mini-series. I also noticed that Ultimate Marvel Team Up #4 says Tony rescued the Vice-President, while the tpb of Ultimate Iron Man says he rescued the President.CovertSomnophore 20:51, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nitro Connection

Nitro's bio on Marvel.com has recently, rather conspicuously, been updated to reveal that Tony Stark has access to a frequency that can force Nitro to detonate. Seems somewhat notable. 24.62.27.66 04:29, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Only if it's later revealed Tony blew up Nitro at Stamford. But Iron Man wouldn't do a thing like that...CovertSomnophore 20:52, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changing Fortunes revisions

This section seems to go off-topic and gives only brief summaries or descriptions of what I feel could be separate articles or much larger sections, namely Armor Wars, Armor Wars II, and the death of Tony Stark. I suggest a rewrite of this section and give these three story arcs at least new sections, but new articles would probably be the way to go. I can help contribute to the Armor Wars II and death of Tony story arcs.--Undertow87 17:40, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The picture

I do not think that the image on the article is a good example of Iron Man. Thats really all I have. I hope I added this comment correctly.

[edit] Civil War section

This seems to be a lengthy Civil War primer. I'd like to propose we concentrate on Iron Man's part of the events, in short summary, and insert the template

Main article: Civil War (comics)

Thoughts? -- Tenebrae 18:21, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Significant stories"

Elsewhere in the Comics Project, this kind of section has been removed as inherently POV. I can say that in my own opinion, as opposed to the opinion of the original editor(s), many of the stories listed here are not significant. They also use blantatnly POV terms ("first and greatest battle"). I'm calling for discussion on this. A smaller list of historically notable issues would be appropriate. --Tenebrae 16:37, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

How funny. I was just going to start a discussion about it also. I'm for the elimination of it entirely, but would like to know what criteria you would use for "historically notable" and how that would avoid random editors adding their personal favorites. CovenantD 19:37, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Good questions. It gets me to thinking we might move this discussion over to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics/editorial guidelines and make it more global.

My first pass, and feel free to copy-paste this if consensus is to move it there. First appearances, certainly. Issues that introduced major characters. Issues with major costume changes. Issues with major change of locale (e.g., Daredevil temporarily moving to San Francisco, in '70s comics). Issues with confirmably acclaimed/award-winning or otherwise notable creators beginning a run. Death/marriage (not that those two are equated!) of a major character. Some major, enduring change, which would take the perspective of time. Thoughts? --Tenebrae 03:15, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Issues where Stark first falls to alcoholism? --Dr Archeville 14:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Reference the issues in the pub. and character histories, remove the list. --Jamdav86 19:12, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Iron Maniac into Iron Man?

Maybe I'm missing something, but he doesn't seem notable enough to deserve his own article. The WikiProject Comics editorial guidelines on alternate versions state that 'alternate versions of characters should have entries in the main article unless that article grows unmanageably large' and seem to suggest splitting into additional articles as a last resort. --Mrph 00:59, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Merge - --Mrph 00:59, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge and trim. The character is not noteworthy enough for his own article. However, the Iron Man does not need to waste that much space merely merging this material into it. Iron Maniac should be left with very little detail after the merge. Doczilla 01:11, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge and trim - per the guidance at Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/editorial guidelines I think you can just be bold and do it. It's a one-shot alternate version, definitely not in need of its own article. --Newt _Ψ _Φ 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge - --NetK 04:35, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge and trim - I barely think Iron Maniac deserves a mention, and certainly not his own article. --JackofSpades 07:05, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge and trim - Tenebrae 15:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Weak Keep Surpringly, I prefer to keep, at least pending the outcome of the Civil War event. This character actually has appeared a fair number of times, in more than one storyline, so this guy isn't simply a one-shot. That said, the article itself is of poor quality so it might be worth deleting. And I'm not sure the name is official anyway, which concerns me a fair bit. Mister.Manticore 03:09, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge and trim. Iron Maniac hasn't ever appeared outside of Marvel Team Up or from any writer other than Robert Kirkman, has he? Ford MF 16:57, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

[edit] Decision

Closed with a decision to merge (and to edit this down severely, as per comments above) --Mrph 17:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Missing, please add

Publication history from May 1968-present
Character history - very good, but probably needs at least one issue number every paragraph, serving as a cite

--Jamdav86 19:41, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ultimate ironman wealth

I am surpised that no one on the the internet has even talk about how rich he is. i think 350 billion is worth talking about on his bio.

[edit] Still a superhero?

Given that Iron Man is the primary supervillian in the Civil War arc, would it still be correct to refer to him as a superhero. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.254.47.19 (talk) 06:10, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

He's, at worst, the antagonist, and not a supervillain; there's a difference. The U.S. government and the majority of Marvel Universe Americans aren't villains. Naming him a supervillain and not Captain America would be POV. --Psyphics _Ψ _Φ 19:42, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Captain America hasn't killed a superhero, Captain America hasn't fought against Freedom, Captain America hasn't sentenced poeple to the Negative Zone, Captain America hasn't armed supervillians and given them a headhunter mandate. Not once has Captain America acted un-American. Iron Man, on the other hand, HAS done these things AND he has stopped fighting super-villians so he can force good people to sign a slip of paper. These are villianous actions on Iron Man's part that have not been repeated on the other side. He's at best a super-beaurocrat at worst a super-villian but his actions haven't approached heroism in a while. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.254.47.19 (talk) 08:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

You're right... captain america hasn't acted un-american... but he is still going against the current administrations decision. Art imitating real life? He is still a superhero... but just not a superhero for the side you support.TehPhil 17:26, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

And y'know ... if superheroes really existed, would you really want vigilantes — which is what they are, in legal terms — going around taking the law into their own hands? Police, in real life, sometimes shoot and kill innocent people by mistake. Amadou Diallo comes to mind. And juries have sentenced innocent men to death, as advanced DNA testing has proven. To one person, Iron Man is in the wrong. To another, Captain America, who wants no accountability for vigilantes' actions, is in the wrong.

Drivers and duck hunters and nurses ... they all have to have a license. They all need training. It's not unreasonable to expect superpowered individuals to be held accountable just like anyone else. Check out Garth Ennis, both in his Marvel Max Punisher work and in his DC series The Boys if you want an expansion on this idea, from one of comics' greats. --Tenebrae 01:49, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Super vigilantism has worked well enough for the last 67 years in the Timely/Marvel Universe (68 in the DC universe) and accountability has not been a problem for rogue heroes either. The SRA is just a more general writing of the villian Senator Kelly's Mutant Registration Act. How did enforcing such a law become a heroic thing? How did arming psychopathic villians in the Thunderbolts become a heroic thing? How did imprisoning superheroes in the Negative Zone become a heroic thing? How did cloning Thor against his will and using him as a mind controlled weapon become a heroic thing? The question is whether Iron Man is even remotely heroic anymore? Not whether Captain America is in the right or in the wrong or a superhero, that's for his discussion page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.254.47.19 (talk) 03:20, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject. CovenantD 08:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

We can't disregard 40+ years of superheroism because of one story arc. --Psyphics_ΨΦ 13:41, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

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