User talk:Indon

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Could you please read carefully these items below ?

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Contents 1 Talk Archived 2 Infobox 3 This and that 4 Citation in Indonesia 5 Caliber journals 6 Aceh News 7 Next ones (collabs) 8 Weh Island 9 Selamat makan! di Indonesia 10 Kenyang? 11 Article in need of cleanup - please assist if you can 12 References in Borobudur

[edit] Talk Archived

— Indon (reply) — 08:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox

You guys are doing some great work on Borobudur. I agree there doesn't seem to be an existing infobox which covers this sort of page. Maybe Template:Infobox protected area is closest? If not, Template:Infobox generic is a fallback. BTW, a picture of the temple from the air, such as [1], would be a nice addition to the page? (MichaelJLowe 11:10, 6 December 2006 (UTC))

BTW have either of you seen the air image that is directly above (ie looking like a plan) ? Hey Indon you are doing such good work - someone will have to invent a new barnstar for your work! SatuSuro 13:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I think I might be able to find an image that is not a problem - but in a week or two unfortunately. You might also see my question about Gunung Tidar - its in Magelang SatuSuro 13:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I have put on Merbabu talk page my concern - but I think over-reliancce on Soekmono is not a good idea. But I am not helpful that way - I have to find the refs that support my arguments. Overall - the development of the article is excellent! please do not bother about me - saya meganggu sekali lagi. I should be looking for the alternative refs that would help. Sorry I am a nuisance again! SatuSuro 13:46, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Its coming back (my memory, I'm getting terlalu tua dan lupa semua) I will try to find the arts, unfortunately it was all at hand when I was doing my honours thesis in 1992 (!) - it was half about Borobudur (!) but there has been heaps of academic material about the place since then as well. The summer here in Western Australia is getting hotter at the moment - kolam renang di sebelah rumah enak! SatuSuro 13:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

The big problem is that my children were sometimes better at the language when we were living in Yogya - and they all have been exposed to BI at school - and I am beginning to lose the bits and pieces - I realise the usage of enak is incorrect - I had forgotten the correct synonym for 'feeling good' and a long time ago had developed a very deep aversion (ie dislike) to usage that sounded like what I call bahasa anjing ( apa kabar etc in australian accent) that comes from the tourist locations in Java and Bali - like Pangeran Diponegoro said - the language of the markets (ie BI) was like the language of chooks (ayam) - but the problem is my language loss over time leaves me with about - londho, monggo and matur nuwun - not very useful for a good conversation - nggak? SatuSuro 14:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Wah horror of horors you liked to my horrible 'sacred places of java' article - it needs _so much work_ I have access to a list of about 800 locations from my Post-Grad supervisor's pundhen project that need to go with that article, wah tidur dulu SatuSuro 14:17, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

It is a terrible mess - malu sangat - which is why it has This is an incomplete list, which may never be able to satisfy certain standards for completeness. Revisions and sourced additions are welcome at the top. Maaf, saya tidur sekarang, sampai nanti! SatuSuro 14:26, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This and that

Thanks a lot for your info on the Indonesian parliament - we certainly needed that clarification. Also, sorry if I was annoying with the DYKs. But you know my intentions were good. Hmm, i must admit, i kinda liked the banner. The rest of that page is very dry. The banner gave it some character. Oh well. but glad to hear you are a U2 fan! I saw them last week in both Sydney and Melbourne ("at a place called Vertigo!") :) --Merbabu 13:39, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Really !! Oh my, I like that song, the name of that place. Well, actually you didn't annoy me with DYK, but just to let you know that in the next rotation round, the item will be moved to the archive. I saw one complain about that banner before at Imoeng's talk page and I kinda agree that it looks ads-like site. I just made a comment, so I can uncomment it back. By the way, 550 members of MPR is DPR, not DPD, but I can't find a citation of it. DPD is promoted as another chamber in MPR, but I don't know how many of them. Also that DPR is elected by the general election, not DPD. DPD members are selected from each DPD Tk. I, if I am not mistaken. However I need sources for that. Wow, too much things in one paragraph (I like the title of this thread). :-) — Indon (reply) — 13:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation in Indonesia

Hi - i can't fix one of the refs. Has an error message. No. 64, from the Economist. What am I doing wrong? hope you can help. --Merbabu 02:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

One thing that we can do with the notes is to expand points in the main text. I think this could be useful in certain circumstances. Where citations link to subscription based articles, then I suggest we really should actually write the important point into the notes. For example “Mr Brown says blah, blah blah – sampai beberapa kalimat”. Merbabu 00:13, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, OK - what I meant was that the notes section does not have to limited to solely listing citations. BUT, it can also be used, where appropriate, to expand on a point made in the article that is probably too detailed for the main article itself. but even better is to maybe actually put the full quotes of people who are cited in an article to give more context. An example would be best to clarify but I can't find one right now. But, books with references often do it. And, if we link to an article that needs payment to read it, maybe we should actually quote the important bits in the text. There are a few citations in the notes that link to a locked article.

by the way - I have been changing "%" to "per cent" in Indonesia. But maybe I realise this isn't the best. eg, Australia uses %. hmmm. any thoughts? --Merbabu 10:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Re reformating the reference section to put in Further Reading, i agree in principle, but in practice how are we going to know which ones were actually used in creating the article? Well, since I probably put about 1/2 in, maybe I can do it. Gimana? oh come on - per cent looks much better! lol. (especially in the eonomics section) Well, I am happy to go with a consensus or a policy but there is nothing in the WP:MOS. I can change it back if that is consensus. I think per cent just looks, "cleaner". So, you want me to create "further reading"? --Merbabu 10:41, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, hang on. Although lots of those books didn't go into creating the article, a lot of what we wrote can be confirmed in these books. I think it is a shame to split them. especially since there is nice subject headings :-). maksud saya, all of the reference can also be further reading, and much of the further reading, supports the article. Seems a shame to split - and I don't think tangential citations or footnotes depends on such a split. Any reason you want to split them? --Merbabu 10:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

can i try the "split" in the sandbox - then i can show you? by the way, can you do page moves? I want to move Indonesian_National_Revolution to Indonesian War of Independence but can't cos page (redirect) already created. I think this is consensus for the move [2]--Merbabu 10:50, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

ha ha, I am so confused. Tell you what: You put XXX, BBB, DET, DUM, and ZZZ citation wherever you want, and I will give you my opinion. ;-). Seriously though, i think i know what you mean. Just try it. --Merbabu 10:52, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for upgrading to better quality references. Don't worry, it is an important job and will be noticed. Some of the existing references are a bit dodgy. By the way, what happened to your XXX and YYY. Also, i replied to each point in the automated peer review. except the last one - that needs a lot of work. --Merbabu 13:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC) lol - just today, i thought Hatta could maybe be the next bio. is it out of date already? OK, i will check. --Merbabu 14:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Caliber journals

Re the list of articles you posted, how do you actually access the articles? Does one have to pay??? --Merbabu 07:22, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

A subscription? nice. Maybe I can "order" aticles from you. I often find things in Google Scholar but can never access them. :-( --Merbabu 08:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

By the way, i put Indonesia up for peer review. Then I'll put it up for GA and FA! --Merbabu 08:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

re PR for Indonesia, what I am afraid of is lots of people saying "I want to know more about corruption, terrorism, australians in Bali on drugs charges, and about Indonesia brutality in East Timor" - just wait. it will happen. lol. TO be honest, i think you are correct about PR, but we will get more comments at GA. What do you think of the article now? --Merbabu 08:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

thanks for the articles. I will read them this week some time. Perhaps I might take a break from Indonesia on wikipedia for a few days. I might try and do some Sydney skyscrapers. But then again, i will probably feel completely different tomorrow and be back at it. I am not like Imoeng! lol - what a shame he left. --Merbabu 09:11, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aceh News

Hmm, I was hoping you weren't going to ask me that - last time I tried to create a new date entry in the Current Events in Southeast Asia page, I ended up making a horrible mess! However, it needs doing, so I'll attempt it later today, and if it goes well I'll also add the other recent news articles which should have been added. --Bwmodular 11:25, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Next ones (collabs)

I suggested to Merbabu - Sudirman and Central Java - what do you think? SatuSuro 15:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey dosnt matter whether they get up - to me they are worth some work on - if anybody agrees, fine.. tak apa apa... Hey there's a hint on Imoeng's user page that he _might _be back! SatuSuro 11:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Weh Island

Weh Island has passed GA. Baristarim 21:56, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations Indon - v. good work there, a very interesting article now.--Bwmodular 09:25, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

re making this the collab - of course you can nominate it. I don't decide it. (although i try and "prod" - lol). I may support another article, but I am only 1 person. --Merbabu 12:16, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations on the GA SatuSuro 13:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Well done Indon, you are setting a great example. (MichaelJLowe 14:33, 12 December 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Selamat makan! di Indonesia

Um, that's from a warung in Malioboro. A couple of years ago. near Mirota batik. oops - i had better reference that food section. --Merbabu 13:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey I never did hear from Merbabu about what he thought of that article! SatuSuro 13:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah, ya, you created it. Why don't you put it on the WP:INA project? Gosh, burung dara goreng, nyam..nyam. — Indon (reply) — 13:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

ha ha, i have photo of burung dara goreng too - shall i put that instead. he he. Seriously, I put a full description of the food. But, maybe a bit over indulgent for this "brief" article. Or is it a nice touch in an otherwise formal article? --Merbabu 12:42, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I am a bit reluctant to put a food picture in that article for Culture section. What's next to represent an Indonesian culture as a whole for foreigners, beside Wayang? Damned, we have small repository for Indonesian culture images at Commons. I'll try to update that later. I think in the meantime we can leave it like that, until we can find a better one. — Indon (reply) — 12:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm - a few things. Culture is not just art forms like wayang but also the way of life. Food is thus very important for way of life. Architecture is important as both an art form and way of life. Wayang is more artform, right? Also, remember that wikipedia is not just aimed at foreigners but trying to present a snapshot of Indonesia not from anyone's point of view. Ie, the article should not simply reinforce the foreigners view of Indonesian culture (ie, gamelan, wayang, batik - even though they are important), but to represent Indonesia as it is. As for the picture, well, i liked it because it showed a broad variety of foods. But see if you can find a better one.--Merbabu 13:03, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

... but as always, I talked first then I'll agree with you later, lol. — Indon (reply) — 13:33, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

After I read the caption, I agree with you. The description is very tempting. Keep the picture. BTW, the article has reached the milestone of 100 citations!! :-) — Indon (reply) — 15:29, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I keep forgetting - I have stubs I need to do that too.... - I really liked the food at mamas on the street to the right (photo in malioboro article) - just next to the railway yard - but that was in the 80's and 90's dont know if its still there... SatuSuro 13:41, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for butting in, but you've piqued my interest - which article (& photo) are you talking about? Oh, how I long for some proper Indonesian food - not too easy to find in Oxford. :( --Bwmodular 15:47, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I think I see it - the picture on the main Indonesia page. Looks enak sekali! --Bwmodular 15:50, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

It's okay, come on join in! Makan-makan di sini (virtually of course) :-)). Oxford? You can only find chicken masala(h) there, lol. I'm here across your small island to the land of the former colony, where a lot of Indonesian food are available, but nothing here can beat the real one like this: Commons:Category:Food from Indonesia. Gee, I didn't know there is bandeng bakar there and it looks delicious. — Indon (reply) — 16:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Now my mouth is really watering! lol --Bwmodular 17:03, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kenyang?

hmmm - i keep adding bits to the Indonesia article. But i think they are important. But i also trim some things too so maybe it is OK. But soon, it might be too big! What do you think? Maybe I need to do some comparisons again with some FA articles.--Merbabu 13:14, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, let's compare it again later. I still have to finish to browse through almost 100!! citations. There's no over-cited criterion, isn't it? :-) Re kenyang, masih laper nih: Commons:Category:Food from Indonesia — Indon (reply) — 13:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

No, i don't think there is a numerical limit to the number of cites. As long as they are relevant, and needed - and of course, a good quality. ada makanan indonesia enak di sana? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Merbabu (talk • contribs) 13:37, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Article in need of cleanup - please assist if you can

[edit] References in Borobudur

I noticed that you seperated Notes and References again. Why? I thought it was a good idea. Wasn't it your idea? --Merbabu 12:00, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Ooops, yup, my idea. :"> Let me see first which one is better. Some articles use separation, per WP:CITE#Notes_2. — Indon (reply) — 12:03, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Now, what do you think? Which one is better? Separated or combined? — Indon (reply) — 12:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I thought this was good:

==References==
===General references===
blah blah blah
===Notes===
n. blah blah blah

--Merbabu 12:24, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Can you guys help with reducing typesize in further refs? SatuSuro 13:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)