Talk:Inconsistencies in Warcraft lore

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Contents 1 The Purpose of this article 2 Things to add 3 Facts and neutrality 4 Azeroth not Retconned 5 Night Elf Society

[edit] The Purpose of this article

• • My view is that this article is valid, as a tool for seeing what was changed and when, and what is inconsistent. It is not a intended as a critique, and it is not a debate on artistic rights. People can make up their own minds on those issues if the information contained is accurate.

It would be prudent of you to add your signature after your comment and start at the bottom of the discussion page when adding a new topic. And as I have stated below; it is a good tool, but only if it can be written without a personal point of view, which is pretty hard with the topic at hand. Havok (T/C) 07:28, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Well put! That's what I had in mind with the article. RobertM525 08:39, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Things to add

There's obviously a lot to add to this article. Feel free to use this list or add to it:

• In WC3:TFT, the Naga new and previously unheard of; in WoW they're everywhere. **Their spread across the world is not an inconsistency but just a rather logical result of the events of the Third War (While this is true, no one seems to question their presence everywhere.)
• Illidan appears to die at the end of WC3:TFT but Blizzard later says that he was merely wounded in the fight. (Why wouldn't Arthas have finished him off if he weren't dead?) **A well made point, but there is nothing that actually confirmed, nor even implied that he was in fact slain. He was left for dead, not killed, by an Arthas with a more urgent mission - Saving the Lich King before his power leaked away.
• The origins of the Horde and reason for the Horde's invasion of Azeroth from WC1 to WC2 to WC3 and finally to WoW:tBC. In terms of why they were corrupted for one thing, and whether they needed to be corrupted at all (I believe in WC1 and WC2, the Orcs were simply evil--the "corrupted Shaman race" was added later). **This was a big shock to WC1 and 2 fans, but it must be pointed out that Gul'Dan's account and other early canon refer to an earlier, peaceful time on Draenor. It is obvious from Gul'Dan's diary in ToD that the Draeni were unsuspecting victims of a sudden suprise Orcish militarism - they would have been more prepared if the Orcs were always evil conquerers.
• The only Night Elves that were supposed to be "awake" between the Sundering of the World and WC3 was supposed to be the female Sentinels. Now, there are many Night elf men who clearly were not recently hibernating druids. Further, there are many female druids. And, perhaps as a stretch, if NE males can be warriors, wouldn't that make them just like the Sentinels? **The total revamp of the whole Night Elf society is a serious and unexplained retcon of warcraft lore - it should be noted that Metzen was very hard against this change in beta.
• Bashees usually possess people, and originally, in WC3, Sylvanis was a regular banshee. But in WC3:TFT, she was changed to a reanimated, soul-less version of herself (somewhat like Arthas), not a banshee. But in WoW, she is still titled "the Bashee Queen," which would seem to contradict the idea of her being reanimated rather than a banshee. Did she possess her own corpse? **Semantics, I don't think there is enough evidence to support this as an inconsistency. Sylvannas was a very powerful magic user and warrior before her death, and Arthas pad special attention to her reanimation.
• The summonable Daemons in WC1 don't seem to match the daemons of WC2 and definately don't match the demons of WC3/WoW. **Daemons in WC1 were merely summoned tools like a WoW warlock's.
• The nature of the Holy Light: it's portrayed as a Taoist-like philosophy rather than a religion, yet in Stormwind there are clergy of a Catholic nature (the Archbishop, for example) and whatnot. It was also portrayed as a human-oriented religion/philosophy and now the new Draenei lore says they know of the Holy Light by way of the Naaru. **This is part of the new Burning Crusade rewrite of lore, which has to be seen as a total schism in terms of all WC canon

[edit] Facts and neutrality

I think this article can be good in many ways, but I also have to say my mind about it's nautrality and facts. It would seem that most people who would contribute to this article, would end up writing about how "stupid", and "wrong" Blizzard are when dealing with their Lore. Believe it or not, it's their lore, and they can explain it in anyway they want. And this article will only help fuel "flamers" and is actually - and I'm an inclusionist here - not encyclopedic because it borders on "personal opionion". I would submit it for a deletion, but, I would rather we work out the kinks of it and make it better. Less PPOV. As long as Blizzard gives no "official" word everything written is pure speculation. Thank you. Havok (T/C) 09:09, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

While there are some things that can be debated, there are some blatant retcons in Warcraft's history. Like Garona's race, for instance. Or the Draenei. Unlike the Orc Warlock thing (which I would say could be classified as a "debatable inconsistency," but that's me), there are some things which are not debatable inconsistencies. Just look at the WC1, WC2, WC3, and WoW manuals, then compare them to the current lore. Things have been changed. And I don't think there's anything wrong with an article about that. Furthermore, I support having both points of view in every point, if there is one. For instance, rather than deleting the Orc Warlock thing, simply elaborate on the counter-point (which I included). RobertM525 03:44, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I just don't see how the presence of orcish warlocks in War3 is "disregarding the original lore." What lore specifically do you think is being disregarded? We are presented with examples of orcish warlocks in Warcraft III, and at no point is it ever indicated that Thrall's reformation of the Horde is final and complete.--Trystan 03:59, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

The only Orcish Warlocks in WC3 are the Fel Orc Warlocks (which you fight as a regular Orc, I think). I don't see how Thrall, in his quest to free his people from the Burning Legion's control, would allow Warlocks (who draw their power from the Legion) to operate in the open. Warlocks are the antithesis of the Shamen of the "New Horde." So with all of that said, I would say that makes it a fact of dispute and thus worth mentioning with both sides of the argument listed to remain neutral. RobertM525 10:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

As I stated, I can see all the good with such an article, but I can also see all the bad that can come from it. Seeing as Blizzard are the only people who actually know everything there is to know about their lore, I feel that this article can become a huge flamewar. Yes, we can see errors in what they do, but they could just aswell explain it off with "Everything you knew was a parallel universe.", or something along those lines. Havok (T/C) 18:46, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

And another thing, atleast add sources and refrences to the article when adding things. Having "Metzen was apposed to this..." and not have a source is pure speculation. Havok (T/C) 07:52, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I'd like this article to use reference tags as much as possible, personally. RobertM525 08:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

This article is so far not a flame war at all, and even if it were it would not merit the dispute tag you put on it. I am removing the tag. Xombie 18:54, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Azeroth not Retconned

Azeroth hasnt been retconned; well not entirely. Their has always been the World of Azeroth ie the Planet and the Azeroth Kingdom. The capital of Azeroth Kingdom has always been Stormwind (despite being spelt wrong occastionally in Warcraft 1 as Stonewind). Check out the map from Warcraft 1

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Then in Warcraft II they added a few other Kingdoms, but still the southern part of the Eastern Kingdoms was always Azeroth Kingdom with the capital of Stormwind.

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And it still remains Azeroth Kingdom with little changing right up to and including World of Warcraft

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Granted they have added STV and a few other regions to Azeroth Kindgom etc, but their has always been at least since Warcraft II, two definitions of Azeroth. - UnlimitedAccess 03:40, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Night Elf Society

I find it odd that people are bothering with the social differences found in WC3. The graphic designers would never bother to split male/female genders for the same unit in a strategy game, which would get tedious in game creation. Thus, it would not be an accurate measure of their culture to base it off WC3 graphics alone. It is just stupid, and I believe the entire article should be removed. -Gederoth