Talk:Drunk driving (United States)
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The content of this article was submitted by the copyright holder Lawrence Taylor, Esq. ( http://www.DUIcentral.com/ ), the author of several legal textbooks, whom I introduced to Wikipedia earlier this afternoon.
While the content of the article is superb, and is no doubt the first of many such high quality contributions, it should be enhanced to be more comprehensive, or simply moved to an article entitled DUI evidence, so have at it Wikipedians! Larry has a full understanding that his work will be mercilessly edited and that the present article is now subject to free distribution under the terms of the GFDL. -- NetEsq 00:27 Oct 25, 2002 (UTC)
The article is from our law firm's public informational website at http://www.DUIcenter.com/ As David indicates, I understand that this article is subject to free distribution. I look forward to contributing further in the future. Letaylor
Regarding the original content of this article (see: "Critique of blood alcohol readings - This section is the previous content of this page. It needs wikifying and NPOVing.") - I'm considering moving this to Blood Alcohol Content.
Also, this article needs discussion of:
- "drugged" driving; the title would then more appropriately be Drunk and Drugged Driving ?
- social/medical/economic effects of drunk/drugged driving injuries & deaths
- efforts to reduce drunk/drugged driving
- link to MADD, which needs to be written
Harris7 11:52, 9 Aug 2003 (UTC)
What about ethical/moral issues regarding Drunk Driving? I can post a decent bibliography.
Changes to this article were submitted by Attorney Marc N. Pelletier, Law Offices of Russo & Russo, St. Petersburg, Florida ([1]). My sincere thanks to my colleague in the National College of DUI Defense, Fellow Lawrence Taylor, Esq. for providing his work as the foundation from which to build.
Edits are as follows:
1. First sentence edited to clarify that it is *impairment* rather than *intoxication* by alcohol that is the key feature of DUI laws.
2. Added word drugs to first sentence with appropriate internal link to expand scope of article per user Harris7's comment on the discussion page associated with this article.
3. Reworded the third paragraph to refer to "per se" or "legal limits" found in the law of most U.S. jurisdictions. Further, changed this paragraph so that it referred to the presumption of impairment that attaches at BAC levels of .08% or higher rather then stating that the law defines .08% BAC as the "threshhold of drunkenness."
4. Added a section dealing with "drugged driving."
5. Changed the examples listed in the first sentence dealing with what penalties are imposed where BAC is over a .20. Added internal link to ignition interlock devices.
6. Deleted the last two sentences of the fourth paragraph dealing with the reasoning behind enhanced penalties in DUI cases where a BAC level of .20 was found to exist. Although habitual and chronic alcoholism is considered by the courts in the context of DUI case (i.e., "How many times were you DUI in the past, but just didn't get caught?"), the main reason for the imposition of additional penalties required in these cases is the greatly increased risk of accidents (and subsequent injury and/or property damage) associated with high BAC levels.
7. Added paragraph under Field Sobriety Tests section dealing with the Standardized Field Sobriety Tests developed by NHTSA. Placed internal link.
8. Corrected the usuage of BAL to BAC for internal consistency within the article, although the terms are interchangeable in practice.
9. Corrected the caption under the photo for accuracy. Test discovered GHB in Nolte's system. These tests were unable to determine drug levels or the fact of impairment. Also, fixed a problem with the remainder of the caption not showing after the internal link to GHB.
Lately there have been numerous edits to this article dealing with the section that states that "The most common blood alcohol content (BAC) "legal limit" in the United States is 0.10%. Only three states still use the more lax, once-common standard of 0.08%." This is factually inaccurate as the .10 level is a "more lax standard" while .08 is the by-far more common standard and also represents a "stricter standard" or lower concentration of alcohol in the human body. Please see http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/research/pub/alcohol-laws/08History/1_introduction.htm#The%20Case%20for as authority. Reference specifically to the section which states, "As of May 2001, forty-nine states, plus the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico, had enacted per se laws (the exception is Massachusetts, where an .08 BAC is considered evidence of impairment, but it is not illegal per se.). Twenty-five states, plus the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico, had established .08 BAC per se as the illegal limit. The remaining states have a .10 BAC per se limit." I am hopeful that this comment and the corresponding edit will end the confusion and numerous reversions to factually incorrect information that have been ongoing in recent weeks.
http://www.dmv.de.gov/services/driver_services/driver_improvement/dr_di_dui.shtml
Contents |
[edit] USA only
This page should be moved to one called Drunk driving (USA). Its content relates almost exclusively to the USA jurisdiction. It has limited use in the global Wikipedia. I will move the page after a suitable time if there are no objections. Arcturus 08:47, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- Page moved. I've created a new page called Drink driving for the international perspective. The new page has a See also link to this page. Arcturus 19:05, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Driving privilege
I notice that in this article driving in America is referred to as a 'privilege'. Is this the legal situation? I wonder haw a state can grant any privileges to its people - surely its the other way round. I've heard people make similar statements in the UK but as far as I can see driving is a right not a privilege. Of course the right can be removed by the state under certain circumstances, but by default you have the 'right'. If we make reference to the state granting privileges in forums such as Wikipedia, sooner or later 'the state' might come to the view that it does indeed confer privileges on the people - and that's dangerous in a democracy. Arcturus 18:01, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
- Many people say things like "driving isn't a right, it's a privilege". This meaningless phrase is often used to justify checkpoints, zero tolerance DUI laws, racial profiling, etc. Since the difference between a "right" and a "privilege" isn't legally clear, there's no sense in claiming that people have a right to perform some acts while others are privileges granted by the state. However I don't think the word "privilege" is used in that sense in the article, it simply means that people can be disallowed from driving. Rhobite 18:31, May 26, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] getMADD.com
I just reverted this added paragraph in the first section:
- It should also be noted that the law applies differently to people suspected of driving while intoxicated. In most states, the officer only has to suspect that the person is drunk. In most states, upon arrest, the suspect, not convicted mind you, has their license suspended within a certain number of days. This suspension is, in some states, increased if the person refuses a breathalizer test, which in some states, is their legal right to refuse, the law punishes the person for refusal by this action. Organizations like MADD make significant amounts of income from hosting MADD intervention meetings for convicted DWI offenders, which is court ordered. The prices for attending these meetings range from 5 to 20 dollars (American). Drunk driving has become a big business and money maker for local law enforcement and judiciaries. The DWI laws are constantly being made stricter in states, due to the lobbying of organizations like MADD, due to the amount of money to be made. Please see getMADD.com for further information on this matter.
There is useful information there (reasonable suspicion of impairment versus actual impairment, breathalyzer refusal), but it's definitely non-NPOV and contains an advertisement for a non-NPOV lobbyist group. Could the good information be incorporated? --Quuxplusone 18:24, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
- I agree with the revert. While it's true that many people believe that MADD has overstepped its original mission (including one of its founders, I think), there's a better way to phrase this. Right now the paragraph is POV. Red flag phrases include "it should be noted" and "mind you", among others. Rhobite 21:56, May 29, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed merge with "Drink driving"
User:GCarty proposes merging this article back into Drink driving. That seems counterproductive to me, since the whole reason it was split off in the first place is that it has a lot of encyclopedic content that doesn't apply to "drink driving" in Europe and abroad.
However, it's true that Drink driving is a stub. Who knows anything about the relevant laws in Europe? Add some content!
I'm minorly afraid that leaving the merge notice up too long might lead to somebody actually merging before a consensus is reached, since there's no apparent procedure for discussing merges the way there is for deletions. Ideas? --Quuxplusone 16:18, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- I support the merge. I agree that most of the content was US-specific, but the proper solution would have been to add information on other countries, not to split the article. The topic of drunk driving shouldn't be segregated into "US" and "elsewhere". Rhobite 18:49, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)
Clarification: I definitely support the creation of new articles about dr[iu]nk driving in countries other than the U.S. But it would be silly, IMHO, to create one blanket article that tries to deal with drunk-driving laws in every single country on earth. Much as we currently have History of Britain, History of France, etc., we'd have Drunk driving (USA), Drink driving (France), etc. The reason we don't have that at the moment is a lack of either interest in, or else interesting material about, drink driving outside the U.S. In the U.S., drunk driving is understandably an interesting topic. Basically, I predict that if the articles are merged this week, they'll just have to be laboriously unmerged in a month or two, when somebody tries to expand the non-U.S. coverage. --Quuxplusone 00:02, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Discussion of penalties and as a societal problem?
I realize this needs to remain NPOV, but shouldn't there be some discussion of how it's a much larger problem in the United States, per capita than in other countries? Perhaps a comparison / contrast with the penalties of other countries? Just a suggestion - I think it would be a good addition, not sure of the best way to go about it.
I've added some points on DUI and its relationship to British Law - which does not recognise such an offence. It's an important legal point. I've also outlined that in terms of deterrent harsh sentences for DUI Manslaughter are much less effective than random breath testing and loss of licence Albanaich
[edit] Breath Test Redirect
"Breath Test" was redirected here, but should have gone to Driving under the influence. I've fixed that now, so no problem with NPOV. --Couttsie 01:57, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Edited Legal Details
Why was the only useful information edited out? The US legal approach to reducing DUI driving is a failure based on the misguided view that restricting alcohol access and increasing sentence lenght decreases the incidence of DUI.
All the evidence from the rest of the world suggests that it is the danger of being caught along with harsh initial penalties that reduce DUI. Also, the USA's unique attitude to the crime of DUI Manslaughter (which does not exist in other Anglo-Saxon legal systems) is also not mentioned.
Albanaich
The evidence from the NHTSA at the beginning of article 'that no other nation uses this statistical' is misleading. NHTSA publish in detail who was drunk in the car - and figures suggest that non-drunk passengers amount to less than 3% of the total. It should be removed as irrelevant to the discussion.
What is relevant, but which appears to riguoursly censored, is that US restrictions on alcohol sale and the draconian sentences for DUI manslaughter have, if anything, a NEGATIVE effect on the prevalence of drunk driving.
Albanaikch
[edit] Bacon?
Why does the first line include [bacon] ?
